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Gun Control

Kevin

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Sep 6, 2004
4,540
1,007
In Holland sticking my finger in a dike...
1. If it would be more hassle to buy a gun in the first place there would be less straw purchases.

2. Stricter registration, more restrictions and rules on second hand market.

3. Tax the hell out of guns so less people can afford them.
I understand you cowboys have a hard-on for your guns, and owning a gun for self defense purposes kind of makes sense even for someone who is from a country with virtually no gun violence.
But tax the hell out of every second and third gun someone owns, especially if theyre designed for use in a war zone.
You dont need a P90 or a SAW to protect your family.

These are just some things i thought up on the toilet while i was taking a crap.
Im sure if Id take my time, I could think of a couple more things that could "do some good"...

But yeah, enjoy your right to bear arms at the cost of thousands of innocent, dead men, women and children.
Im just glad i dont have to live in your shitshow...
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
Kevin said:
liberal talking points .
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so you think if theres "more of a hassle" to buy a gun, that would deter someone from doing a straw purchase? lol..riiiight. because straw purchases never happen in states where buying a gun is a nightmare right (ny,nj, ca?)

none of that liberal rhetoric would have stopped that straw purchase that you somehow think more laws would have prevented.

and whats wrong with a P90S or M249? do they look scary? because they dont shoot anything different then whats currently on the market. my "hunting" rifles shoot rounds that are far more deadlier. are those bad too?

thinking about those ground breaking ideas on the shitter falls right in line with the dolts we have here trying to pass stupid laws
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,002
9,669
AK
Exactly, that's why rounds need to be $100 each. When's the last time some millionaire went crazy and killed everyone (with guns)?
 
stevew

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,602
9,610
Jm_ said:
Exactly, that's why rounds need to be $100 each. When's the last time some millionaire went crazy and killed everyone (with guns)?
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we elect them and they have other people do it for them in other countries.....
 
Kevin

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Sep 6, 2004
4,540
1,007
In Holland sticking my finger in a dike...
IH8Rice said:
so you think if theres "more of a hassle" to buy a gun, that would deter someone from doing a straw purchase? lol..riiiight. because straw purchases never happen in states where buying a gun is a nightmare right (ny,nj, ca?)

none of that liberal rhetoric would have stopped that straw purchase that you somehow think more laws would have prevented.

and whats wrong with a P90S or M249? do they look scary? because they dont shoot anything different then whats currently on the market. my "hunting" rifles shoot rounds that are far more deadlier. are those bad too?

thinking about those ground breaking ideas on the shitter falls right in line with the dolts we have here trying to pass stupid laws
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Like I said, im just glad I dont have to live in your shitshow.
 
atrokz

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
Kevin said:
Like I said, im just glad I dont have to live in your shitshow.
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No, you just live in your own shitshow....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3997943/Pressure-to-reform-Dutch-drug-laws-as-gang-violence-grows.html

"There were 7000 criminal cases against 1500 members of youth gangs in the past three years, the Amsterdam-based “De Volkskrant” reported recently. These juvenile offenders committed 10,000 crimes."

Not exactly problem free over there, and look, the criminals had firearms....
 
Kevin

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Sep 6, 2004
4,540
1,007
In Holland sticking my finger in a dike...
Oh and I havent been in Holland for more then two weeks at a time in about 10 years.
I spent 4 weeks there in total in 2014, another 7months working in Norway and Sweden and the rest of the time living on a small Island in the Caribean.

And yes Amsterdam might have its problems, but our "youth gangs" are like fucking boyscouts compared to street gangs in the us.
 
atrokz

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
No, I'm not. I'm illustrating that there are gangs there, and they somehow procure illegal things.

BOOM> just logic fucked your 'logic'. :P

There is clearly a crime element in Holland that rules don't apply to, apparently. This illustrates IH8Rice's point about illegally procuring a firearm using your own country as an example. ;) That's all

I agree the US is due for some change with regards to who can own and where it can be kept or carried, but if the question is about procurement which it seemed to be, then it's not as simple as you think. They are banned all over Europe and gang members still have them. This should serve to illustrate that criminal elements are able to generate a monopoly of force regardless of laws.
 
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atrokz

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
But it shows that even with more of a hassle (or an all out BAN), the people who want an illegal weapon will get it. Recent shootings in France show this to be the case. Completely prohibited weapons used.

Yes, reduction showed to reduce a certain type of death: suicide. The thing is safe storage laws in Canada (where I reside, look where we are on that chart even with ownership of 'assault' rifles) did the same thing with an increase in ownership. All about weeding the peeps out. But that's near impossible right now, apparently, with the 2nd. The second thing would be laws for safe storage. Sandy hook could have been prevented if there were safe storage laws, and the vast majority of accidentally shooting by children would be cut to zero if those laws were implemented, but then it's a huge multifaceted issue with regards to carry. I don't see the point of carrying but then again I don't live in a high crime area. Our tunes might change immediately if we lived in the wrong area of Chicago or Florida for instance.
 
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Kevin

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Sep 6, 2004
4,540
1,007
In Holland sticking my finger in a dike...
Yes people who absolutely 100% want a fire arm will probably get it anyway.
But in a population as big as the US's there is a considerable amount of people that get a gun just cause its easy.
And even if they dont commit a crime with it, someone else who gets their hands on it will.

To be honest, I see what you mean, I even see what ieatrice means, but its just plain wrong to think stricter regulation wont prevent gun related violence.
And imo the right to own a gun for self defence might even make a difference in individual cases, but only makes things worse in the end.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,002
9,669
AK
atrokz said:
But it shows that even with more of a hassle (or an all out BAN), the people who want an illegal weapon will get it. Recent shootings in France show this to be the case. Completely prohibited weapons used.

Yes, reduction showed to reduce a certain type of death: suicide. The thing is safe storage laws in Canada (where I reside, look where we are on that chart even with ownership of 'assault' rifles) did the same thing with an increase in ownership. All about weeding the peeps out. But that's near impossible right now, apparently, with the 2nd. The second thing would be laws for safe storage. Sandy hook could have been prevented if there were safe storage laws, and the vast majority of accidentally shooting by children would be cut to zero if those laws were implemented, but then it's a huge multifaceted issue with regards to carry. I don't see the point of carrying but then again I don't live in a high crime area. Our tunes might change immediately if we lived in the wrong area of Chicago or Florida for instance.
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Problem is, some of the "law abiding" citizens who buy guns to protect themselves from "bad guys" will snap and turn into "bad guys", or use it for domestic violence or some other criminal act. This means of course we need even more "good guys" with guns to protect us from the few bad guys, but again, some of the good guys will snap, requiring even more good guys with guns....


Look at suicide bombers, obviously guaranteed death isn't a detractor, so by the same idea, the threat of "getting shot" doesn't stop crime. In fact, stats show places where we have the most armed citizens can be some of the most dangerous. There are a significant number of people that will do something if they can get away with it, which is where availability and ease comes into it, vs. the people that will do it regardless of what it takes or the consequences. To this extent, availability is a huge part of it. Pretty much all of the guns out there being used by criminals came from "law abiding citizens".
 
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Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,072
14,733
where the trails are
We have more of a violence problem here in the States. Guns are simply a very convenient means to an end.

There are many hundreds of millions of guns on the streets of the USA. To think they can be collected and disposed of, ever, is irrational thinking.

It's quite interesting to listen to non-US citizens discuss gun control. (not sarcasam.) Carry on.
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,072
14,733
where the trails are
I don't think I suggested that at all.

More doesn't help, when there are already as many / more guns than people in the country (conservatively) more is sort of irrelevant.

I own guns, been a victim of guns and have friends dead from guns. I'm not pro gun, nor anti gun. I'm not a fan of current gun laws, nor do I hold much hope for any 'sweeping' reform in my lifetime either.
 
atrokz

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
Nick said:
It's quite interesting to listen to non-US citizens discuss gun control. (not sarcasam.) Carry on.
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I was with you up to here. The US is not the only country in the world with guns, legal or illegal. Mexico and Canada can atrribute most of the guns *used in crime, over 90%, to smuggling across the us borders. Of course we can have opinions on gun control. Canada has a very large amount of just that, some of the rules even go way too far and are founded in fears not logic. To top it off the laws are written in the criminal code of canada, so trust me, we are practically experts.Haha.
 
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Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,072
14,733
where the trails are
No of course not. Obviously I know that. However most of this thread, the debate in general, and my mindset (as I live in the US) IS focused on the US. I said it was interesting because the topic is SO polarizing here there is little chance that any side will sway the other in any important numbers.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,002
9,669
AK
Nick said:
We have more of a violence problem here in the States. Guns are simply a very convenient means to an end.

There are many hundreds of millions of guns on the streets of the USA. To think they can be collected and disposed of, ever, is irrational thinking.

It's quite interesting to listen to non-US citizens discuss gun control. (not sarcasam.) Carry on.
Click to expand...
Just take something with planned obsolescence, like ihpones, hub widths, wheel sizes, etc, and give a free whatever-it-is in exchange for a gun.

Iphone 7s for guns. Gov could probably afford to buy a few iphones per person for what we've spent in Iraq at least (or a house).
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Nick said:
There are many hundreds of millions of guns on the streets of the USA. To think they can be collected and disposed of, ever, is irrational thinking.
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That's the same thing ignorant hunters said before the passenger pigeon went extinct (or fisherman in Canada (and elsewhere) before they overfished and their fisheries collapsed). "Oh there's literally BILLIONS of them, they'll always be around." Passenger pigeons today - ZERO and many different fish species are no longer commercially viable - those fishing communities are gone.

http://www.wbu.com/chipperwoods/photos/passpigeon.htm

The Passenger Pigeon, once probably the most numerous bird on the planet, made its home in the billion or so acres of primary forest that once covered North America east of the Rocky Mountains. Their flocks, a mile wide and up to 300 miles long, were so dense that they darkened the sky for hours and days as the flock passed overhead. Population estimates from the 19th century ranged from 1 billion to close to 4 billion individuals. Total populations may have reached 5 billion individuals and comprised up to 40% of the total number of birds in North America (Schorger 1995). This may be the only species for which the exact time of extinction is known.
...
The Passenger Pigeon is now extinct. Over hunting, the clearing of forests to make way for agriculture, and perhaps other factors doomed the species. The decline was well under way by the 1850’s.

The last nesting birds were reported in the Great Lakes region in the 1890’s. The last reported individuals in the wild were shot at Babcock, Wisconsin in 1899, and in Pike County, Ohio on March 24, 1900. Some individuals, however, remained in captivity.

The last Passenger Pigeon, named Martha, died alone at the Cincinnati Zoo at about 1:00 pm on September 1, 1914. Who could have dreamed that within a few decades, the once most numerous bird on Earth would be forever gone?
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It's only irrational to claim there's something magical about guns compared to any other population of items. The right checks on the population will make a difference just like any other.
 
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atrokz

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
Jm_ said:
Just take something with planned obsolescence, like ihpones, hub widths, wheel sizes, etc, and give a free whatever-it-is in exchange for a gun.

Iphone 7s for guns. Gov could probably afford to buy a few iphones per person for what we've spent in Iraq at least (or a house).
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Good idea. Because if youre stupid enough to trade in your 220 for an iphone you probably shouldnt own one in the first place. I like it.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,468
20,270
Sleazattle
Pesqueeb said:
Maybe Janet Reno can come back and impose martial law in Waco? Just in case?
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Yup, just part of Obama's plot to impart martial law before Jade Helm takes over Texas.

I wonder how many times Fox News will refer to these guys as "thugs"? I am guessing 0.
 
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