Didn't you see the g-boxx pictures, the axle has to spin free or the g-boxx wouldn't engage unless the suspension was fully compressed. I don't know about you but I don't usually pedal my way out of hard landings and g-outs.
DW's new suspension design. the split pivot.
- Thread starter dhkid
- Start date
Nope, never saw it.... Thanks
If you look at the dropout cutaway view you can see more clearly. The axle is supported by the droput on the chainstay, its a standard thru axle arrangement with a built in QR for tensioning. THe seastays pivot on the chainstays, not on the axle. The axle can't rotate in relation the that chainstays. I also played with QR versions, but the TA was lighter to implement and offered a little better rigidity.
Dave
Yes, the sunday is obsolete now and you are no longer the most hip kid on the block if you ride one. Luckily for you, I will come and take it off your hands for no extra charge!
irate2:
No one ever said that this design would be replacing the Sunday 
dude, i just found it on google, so of course it is http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2567772&postcount=84No one ever said that this design would be replacing the Sunday
No one ever said that this design would be replacing the Sunday
Ssssssssssssh! You'll ruin my business plans!
Gee thanks!
Now, about that infringement...
Just kidding!
When I tried to design the same thing, I found it hard to create the dropout area in a simple manner. I would assume this is where the majority or your work went and where the patent claims point to.
I better patent my "other" suspension technology before you beat me to it again!
"Linkage actuated single pivot" is what I'm guessing he meant.i like the concept, for sure, but i have a question:
how can a design like the split pivot be as light and inexpensive as a single pivot design?
it has the same amount of pivots & bearings and a similar structure compared to a dw*link.
I think it has to do with the tubing. Just about every standard 4 bar uses the same basic structure, even on cheapo $300 Costco bikes. DW just had to come up with a cool way to create a pivoted dropout and slap'er in there.i like the concept and design, for sure, but i have a question:
how can a design like the split pivot be as light and inexpensive as a single pivot design?
it has the same amount of pivots & bearings and a similar structure compared to a dw*link.
I think it may be stronger/lighter than a standard single pivot like the Yakuza DH. It uses a more obtuse rear triangulation which is inherently stiffer at a given weight in most directions than a acute traingle. One reason why Turner DHR has a more expanded rear end than say, a Bullit. DHR is a stiff mofo, so I can see how it works.
allow me to rephrase:
how can a "linkage actuated split pivot" design, as shown, be lighter and less expensive than a comparable dw*link design?
because there is one less pivot area, hence less metal bolts, washers, welds, bearings, seals and mounts...and it wouldn't necessarily be used on a DW Link bike...it would be for simple, single pivot designs and basic linkage bikes.
not really tho. take the rearward pivot, on the lower link of a dw-link, and move it all the way back to the axle in a concentric manor...and you have a split pivot design.
i suppose you eliminate the lower link...the lower link becomes the chainstays/yoke.
i'm just wondering.
Manufacturing tolerances. A dw-link needs to be held to tight tolerances to perform as designed. This usually menas CNC machining the entire weldment after heat treat, or pretty careful fixturing and alignment. 1mm is a huge number in dw-link world. A Split Pivot could be welded by a monkey and still probably work out allright. 1mm is practically inconsequential with Split-Pivot.
I don't think that Split Pivot could be lighter than dw-link in an ideal world. dw-link is structurally pretty hard to beat.
Materials are sometimes cheaper than labor. A less labor intensive design is usually cheaper even with more expensive parts. Bearings are cheap anyway.
There are also tooling costs that have to be accounted for. Since the straight tubes are widely available, you don't have to create special processes for bent tubing, as well as train workers to make them for a small percentage of the production cycle.
The best feats of engineering are when you can create something brand new using pre-existing tools, labor, and materials. Just think about the Appolo 13 return mission. Easily the most impressive feat of engineering in human history, (besides the DW link
) because they had to create complex stuff out of just about nothing, including the CO2 scrubers.man all this talk is making me want to get back into designing bikes! It's funny, cause my initials are W.D.
Dave, do you mind if I create the WD link?
Oooooooh, this could be a great way to make a gearbox bike.
Too bad the gearbox is dead eh Dave?
Too bad the gearbox is dead eh Dave?
You should make 40oz bottles of beer.
Then I could be cole chillin with my homies drinkin WD 40s.
Oooooooh, this could be a great way to make a gearbox bike.
Too bad the gearbox is dead eh Dave?
suddenly it all makes sense.
Dude, that's genius!
Although regular WD 40 get's you more messed up!
Funny you would mention that though, as I had an urge several years ago to start my own brewing company, but with quality beer. Likely not something I would put in 40 once bottles.
I think I'll stick with making video games for now.
40 ounce bottles of quality beer is about as good an idea as a gearbox 
Is it flexy?
...did somebody say beer?
I know I'm a total newbie to the forum, but I would think that just as with any company, corporation etc. that come up with the newest, coolest, "must-have" item they must continue to re-market it as "new and improved".
It seems clear to me that the Sunday and the dw link are all the rage now. But only until something "cooler" comes out. This system is an attempt to continue on as the trendy, must-have bike. Marketing man...marketing.
But what do I know.
I know I'm a total newbie to the forum, but I would think that just as with any company, corporation etc. that come up with the newest, coolest, "must-have" item they must continue to re-market it as "new and improved".
It seems clear to me that the Sunday and the dw link are all the rage now. But only until something "cooler" comes out. This system is an attempt to continue on as the trendy, must-have bike. Marketing man...marketing.
But what do I know.
congrats dw, to me the drawing was another weagle fueled "d'oh why didnt anyone else think of that" just because of how efficiently the whole brake interaction was solved and at the same time the structure made more efficient. just like the sunday front bottom pivot only betterer.
great stuff.
great stuff.
interesting, but how does this differ from what trek has out?
i was just thinking, iron horse said they had big things comming in 08! split pivot here it comes!
That doesn't make sense; DW-Link eliminates brake squat.
A linkage activated single pivot like turner TNT is stiffer than the older horst link versions.
Hmm loose call there. With a different wheel path it can't mach an FSR on all/most suspension characteristics/duties.
Are the rear bearings under much more load?You'll loose the main bennefit(stiff reliable) of a single pivot if they get sloppy.In effect your keeping a single pivot but adding a bearing into the mix.
*Edit* I just had a reread and better look at the pics,the bearings are only on the seat stay so no real difference in wear accept from different seat stay length(negligable).
How much travel will it be running? Good for a trailbike,bottlerockets seemed to be getting sucked up by the herd.
Reminds me of a Nicollai,pick a flawed design and try to make it better.
Nice idea but you can't pollish a turd.
)).jpg)
True, but on the other hand it will bring some more business to the lower end models of the Iron Horse bikes, which don't receive the credit they deserve.
Iron Horse selling more bikes = more money to spend on making the top of the line models better
As long as they take money away from Specialized and Ellsworth, I'm all for it, even if it is just a great marketing scheme. Plus it puts more money into the pockets of good fellows like DW. How many other designers do you get talk to in the forums, besides Dave Turner?
On the other hand there's still a place for quality affordable bikes that don't need any gizmos to sell like crazy. I'm really considering the Bottle Rocket, just because it's what I've been looking for the last 7 years. Simple, perfect geo, rides like a hardtail, soaks it up like a DS.
If IH could come out with something similar with a DW link, I would have no doubt they would sell like pot brownies at a Phish concert.
For a smooth track style bike that's not really used for rough trails I'm sure it'll be okay,or even as an all MTN,but for Dh where suspensions main objective is to smooth out the trail,I don't think much of it.Especially having a brother of such a higher caliber.
What makes you think an FSR has a different wheel path than most low, rearward single pivots?
Well BV, the pivot actually looks quite high. It's not your run of the mill high-forward pivot, but it's not that low either. I'd have to wonder about pedaling interaction when going through the rough stuff (DW did say that it acellerates well, so there is obviously an interaction between the suspension and the chain torque).