[spocomptonrider]

I am going to be purchasing a new shock for my V10 I am currently running a DHX 5.0 and want a bit more adjustability for different tracks and such, I have narrowed it down to the above choices but can't decide, the adjustability of the CCDB would be nice but the amount of adjustability is kind of intimidating as I am not that into playing with knobs and dials I am more of a set and forget kind of rider, the other thing I am curious about is to whether or not the ti spring I have for the DHX willl work with the RC4 (diameter) it would be nice to have a back up Fox shock for the Fox but I have heard nothing but good things about the CCDB, what do you guys think>? Is the CCDB user friendly or does it require an engineering degree, is the RC4 even on the same level? Would sending the DHX off to Push be a better option?

 

[X777]

You said it yourself, sending it to Push is the best for you... V10 is very specific high leverage frame, what means that to get the best out of it, custom tunning is the way to go. I don't believe that stock Rc4 or CCDB will work better with this frame than pushed shock. I know two guys who own V10 with pushed dhx5 and both of them said that it was huge improvement over stock valving of dhx5.

 

[buckoW]

A DHX 5 will never have a propper LSC circuit like the RC4 or CCDB.

The RC4 is more progressive than the CCDB and they are both sick. Maybe do the GoRide shock testing program to see which one works better in your frame.

 

[djjohnr]

Fox has specific tunes for some frames that they worked with the manufacturers on (Yeti 303R for example). I'd check with them to see if they have a specific V10 tune RC4.

 

[Eastern States Cup]

Maybe this thread should be limited to those that have more than parking lot exprience on both.

I second the Go-Ride.com option

 

[IH8Rice]

third for the go-ride option and first to recommend said RC4 product below

 

[WBC]

I have no experience running either shock on a V10, but if you got the RC4 and didn't like the ride, there are a few aftermarket tuners that are advertising RC4 service to begin soon, including the Fox Pro-Tune, and the RC4 uses the same spring as the DHX.

I think I'd go for the RC4 based soley on the fact that Fox has great CS that is available in almost every country and at most larger events. I remember Malcolm (?) at CC being really helpful, too, but they just don't have the same distribution network.

 

[boogenman]

third for the go-ride option and first to recommend said RC4 product below

Does fit his bike chief.

I would go with the Pushed DHX

RC4 ramps up really well which may suit your bike well.

CCDB is the fukkin bomb. Been rocking that shock on all my DH bikes since 2006

 

[IH8Rice]

Does fit his bike chief.

oh well

 

[Tetreault]

Custom tune > Stock

 

[spocomptonrider]

Push may be the way I end up going, but there are a few things, namely it would be nice to have a back up shock in the tool box at races in case one decides to self destruct, and also as some of you have mentioned I am sure that custom tune programs will become available in the very near future for the RC4 which would give me some time to figure out what I do and do not like about the shock and get it completely dialed. Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming.

 

[boogenman]

it would be nice to have a back up shock in the tool box at races in case one decides to self destruct.

You didn't mention a Romic was on your bike

 

[spocomptonrider]

^lol. no it's a DHX 5.0 but I've seen a few destroy themselves.

 

[S.K.C.]

I am going to be purchasing a new shock for my V10 I am currently running a DHX 5.0 and want a bit more adjustability for different tracks and such, I have narrowed it down to the above choices but can't decide, the adjustability of the CCDB would be nice but the amount of adjustability is kind of intimidating as I am not that into playing with knobs and dials I am more of a set and forget kind of rider, the other thing I am curious about is to whether or not the ti spring I have for the DHX willl work with the RC4 (diameter) it would be nice to have a back up Fox shock for the Fox but I have heard nothing but good things about the CCDB, what do you guys think>? Is the CCDB user friendly or does it require an engineering degree, is the RC4 even on the same level? Would sending the DHX off to Push be a better option?

I have no saddle time on the CCDB but I have messed around a bit with one and its adjustment range is VERY impressive.

I too am a "set and forget" kind of rider and have been on the RC4 for the past season. Before that I was on a DHX 5 both stock and then later PUSH'ed. The RC4 has a pretty impressive adjustment range as well (not as much as the CCDB mind you) and has a more refined compression stroke than its predecessor the DHX. What I noticed almost immediately after a few weeks of riding was that the RC4 offered a LOT more beginning and mid-stroke support as well as a more effective bottom-out control.

Unfortunately the shock body of the RC4 is wider than the DHX so the Ti spring from your DHX will not fit your RC4 properly (the big issue here is spring-rub on the shock body during the compression stroke).

I also have experience with a PUSH'ed DHX 5 which is my old shock off my Sunday. All I had done was a Factory Rebuild and let me tell you when Darren calls it a "Vault" seal housing he ain't kidding. Since I ride a bike the way old people have sex, I tend to make jack-a$$ mistakes while racing. At the Open last year I would case the step-up from time to time... HARD... I mean slamming the rear wheel into it... After the first time I did it I thought for sure I'd blown the shock or at the very least developed a leak... NOTHING. Even after a full weekend of hack-racing, the shock didn't develop a single leak. Contrastingly, a buddy of mine who was on a CCDB blew his after casing the same step-up on his second run. Could have been due to a minor glitch b/c he said CC fixed it for him - no worries.

 

[Pslide]

Also, regarding your ti spring, you will find yourself running 50 to 100 lbs less spring on an rc4 than a dhx5.

 

[mullet_dew]

Also, regarding your ti spring, you will find yourself running 50 to 100 lbs less spring on an rc4 than a dhx5.

I was just about to add this, the massive shaft size on the RC4 means a bigger reservoir and from some reports I have read an air spring effect meaning less spring rate needed. On the other hand the CCDB has a small shaft and as I understand it not a lot of pressure in the reservoir so you may get the opposite effect.

This is all second hand so I would do some more research before you commit.

 

[Udi]

Yeah the above is correct, you need a lower springrate on the RC4 (vs a DHX5), and the CCDB is the opposite. The CCDB's shaft is tiny and therefore you need a 25-50lbs higher springrate than the DHX5, because it has less air-spring effect contributing to (and increasing) the overall springrate.

The most important thing is, don't buy a Ti spring for either the RC4 or the CCDB until you have worked out the correct rate in steel (or borrowed Ti) first.

I haven't had much time on the RC4 however the ones I've ridden have felt a little high in stiction for me (either that or the Revolts they were in were the culprit, or both), the CCDB is nicer in that regard, though they are prone to seeping oil from the shaft in my experience.

Both are very different shocks in any case, I'd try both first if possible before you make the call.

 

[big-ted]

Yeah the above is correct, you need a lower springrate on the RC4 (vs a DHX5), and the CCDB is the opposite. The CCDB's shaft is tiny and therefore you need a 25-50lbs higher springrate than the DHX5, because it has less air-spring effect contributing to (and increasing) the overall springrate.

Totally false. I dropped 50lbs/in in spring rate in going from a DHX 5.0 to a CCDB.

 

[iRider]

I dropped 50lbs/in in spring rate in going from a DHX 5.0 to a CCDB.

Same here. I think because of the better mid-stroke support of the damping you have to go lower. Malcolm even suggested dropping 100lbs/in and I tried it but it was too much. Like Udi said, play around with steel springs until you have your spring rate dialed.

 

[Udi]

Totally false. I dropped 50lbs/in in spring rate in going from a DHX 5.0 to a CCDB.

You can use damping to compensate for the gross drop in springrate, but that doesn't make my statement totally false.

I own two of each shock, and similarly damped, the CCDB will sag more under the same springrate (quite noticeably).

 

[IH8Rice]

I haven't had much time on the RC4 however the ones I've ridden have felt a little high in stiction for me (either that or the Revolts they were in were the culprit, or both), the CCDB is nicer in that regard, though they are prone to seeping oil from the shaft in my experience.

i havent noticed a huge amount of stiction with my Revolt and RC4, but it is noticeable. im hoping the CCDB will solved some of that. i have to say, it is obviously less than my 5" stroke coil Curnutt or my 3" strock air Curnutt (which i still prefer over the RC4)

im just not sure what size spring ill need for the Revolt and DB

 

[sethimus]

You can use damping to compensate for the gross drop in springrate, but that doesn't make my statement totally false.

I own two of each shock, and similarly damped, the CCDB will sag more under the same springrate (quite noticeably).

aren't you supposed to ride the ccdb with more sag?

 

[IH8Rice]

aren't you supposed to ride the ccdb with more sag?

isnt sag, sag no matter what shock it is. suspension design dictates sag, no?

 

[General Lee]

isnt sag, sag no matter what shock it is. suspension design dictates sag, no?

You're right. Sttatic sag is static sag (sitting on the bike), but depending on the characteristic of the damping circuit (low speed compression in particular) the same spring can ride higher or lower in its travel when you are actually riding.

I think some people are being unclear whether they are referring to sag while sitting on the bike in the parking lot or when actually riding.

 

[Udi]

I think put fairly simply, LSC won't change the sag point, it will just take how long it takes to get there. So running an undersprung, overdamped setup (not saying anyone is doing this, just an example) will sag more than it should, however it will still feel stable.

But the disadvantage here is that it has a tendency to make the bike (the rear in this case) feel like it is sitting too deep into the travel, and IMO can mess up weight balance in corners. The other disadvantage is that it will most certainly feel more "dead" and will be harder to pop off things on.

It's hard to communicate how much is too much over the internet which is why I'm not going to comment on anyone else's setups, but when it comes down to it, the CC has a very small shaft and a low chamber pressure which equals to a lower final springrate, and less springrate progression, IMO noticeably so when compared to other mainstream shocks (DHX, Vivid). The Elka and RC4 have even bigger shafts than those, which is why I said they should be catered for differently to the CC.

 

[Udi]

On the other hand, if you were running a higher springrate on the DHX to compensate for its lack of LSC (and/or not wanting to use propedal, etc) then you might well be able to get away with a lower rate on the CCDB, because you no longer need to do that.

But aside from that scenario, in an apples-to-apples (as possible) comparison, my statement stands.

 

[iRider]

On the other hand, if you were running a higher springrate on the DHX to compensate for its lack of LSC (and/or not wanting to use propedal, etc) then you might well be able to get away with a lower rate on the CCDB, because you no longer need to do that.

All I can say is that to maintain the same amount of static sag I had to use a 350 # sping on the DHX and a 300 on the CCDB. The CCDB rides deeper in it's travel with the 300 though but makes up for it by not blowing through the midstroke as the DHX. Overall an improvement in dynamic geometry and suspension performance. So I think you are right with your analysis and I am guilty of running an undersprung/overdamped setup!

 

[spocomptonrider]

So I think I am going to go the go-ride option and try both the RC4 and the CCDB but I have a few questions still. The V10 has a fairly high leverage ratio so I am curious if the shocks that they send out will play nice with the frame (i.e. give me a good idea of what it will actually feel like) Cane Creek basically tailors the shock to fit your specific application (weight, bike, ride style, etc.) and I would imagine that Fox does something similar though maybe not to the same level. Is there enough adjustability in the shocks to allow them to send the same shocks to all types of riders on all types of bikes and still perform well?

 

[IH8Rice]

i didnt think Fox had optional "tunes" and or different versions to purchase.

 

[djjohnr]

i didnt think Fox had optional "tunes" and or different versions to purchase.

Fox definitely has specific tunes for the manufacturers that work with them on them (Yeti for example). Call Fox or your frame manufacturer to find out if there is a shock specifically valved for your frame available.

 

[djjohnr]

Cane Creek basically tailors the shock to fit your specific application (weight, bike, ride style, etc.)?

Is this new? As far as I know they use one stock valve and then give you recommendations on setup using the external adjusters.

 

[Udi]

Cane Creek basically tailors the shock to fit your specific application (weight, bike, ride style, etc.) and I would imagine that Fox does something similar though maybe not to the same level.

Cane Creek actually does nothing of the sort, the shock is built with a one-size-fits-all mentality, and the idea is that it offers enough adjustment range to cater for very high and very low leverage bikes. How well it does that is a matter of opinion but the new 2010 tune shocks do have a very wide range of adjustment.

As for Fox, unless you opt into their custom tuning program (for extra $$), it's the same deal. You get the same RC4 as everyone else gets.

Fox does produce OEM shocks with slightly different tunes (supposedly) for some manufacturers that ask specifically for this: Specialized and IH may have been two candidates for that, however these aren't usually available for purchase aftermarket anyway.

At the end of the day, I think for most people the shocks in their stock guise provide enough adjustment range anyway, so I doubt you'll have complaints about either shock in that respect.

 

[iRider]

Cane Creek actually does nothing of the sort, the shock is built with a one-size-fits-all mentality, and the idea is that it offers enough adjustment range to cater for very high and very low leverage bikes. How well it does that is a matter of opinion but the new 2010 tune shocks do have a very wide range of adjustment.

That is not correct according to Malcolm from CC. They have different tunes (starting with the 2010 tune) depending on the bike you ride, and no, it is not only recommended settings.

 

[djjohnr]

As for Fox, unless you opt into their custom tuning program (for extra $$), it's the same deal. You get the same RC4 as everyone else gets.

I called Yeti regarding an RC4 for my 303R. They state that there is a tune specific to the 303R and that it can be ordered direct from Fox. I haven't talked to Fox yet as I can't afford a $600 shock right now.

 

[jwick]

I don't mean to muddy the waters here but nobody mentioned the Vivid. How does it stack up. Or is it just poo?

 

[davep]

That is not correct according to Malcolm from CC. They have different tunes (starting with the 2010 tune) depending on the bike you ride, and no, it is not only recommended settings.

That is the opposite of the information I was given just last week.

I just sent my older CCDB back to them to have it completely gutted and upgraded to 2010 specs (VERY reasonable price BTW). No mention of any specific 'tune', my weight, riding style, bike type, leverage rate, spring rate, etc, etc. IF they were custom tuning now (they were NOT earlier) they would have to have had all of that information...Without it, they would have no idea what they would be building.

Moreover, as part of my ~1/2 hour conversation with Malcolm, he mentioned their dyno findings of other shocks VS the single implementation of the new '2010' tune. In their findings, the Particular BOS for the Makulu had the least damping force across the board of any other shock they have tested (makes some sense based on that frame). The 2010 CCDB was able to be set at a lower damping force than the BOS (and thus any other shock thay have tested). Again, this was all in reference to THE 2010 tune and the internals that were going in my shock (for a bike with a completely different design, vastly different wheel rate, average leverage, travel, and shock size. I was told (as I was aware of already) that the adjusters (especially the new parabolic LSC seats that allow about 50% less damping force compared to the older design) allow a single tune to fit virtually ALL frames. They have 'proven' this on the dyno by showing that this single tune can be adjusted to have more damping force or less damping force than any other stock shock they have tested.

To add to this, CC will be selling the CCDB through one of the large bicycle distributors for the upcomming season(stocked item, not a special order or pre-order item). There is no way that this would be possible it they were indeed custom tuning shocks to each customer.

 

[spocomptonrider]

Is this new? As far as I know they use one stock valve and then give you recommendations on setup using the external adjusters.

My mistake, apparently the adjustments negate the need to have different tunes for different bikes.

As for the Vivid, rode one on my buddies V10, it was ok but I didn't feel that it was a significant step above the DHX 5.0 not to mention he's already had to send it back to get rebuilt.

-edit- CCDB is on the way from go-ride, after a week of riding I'll send it back in exchange for the RC4 I'll keep you guys posted on how it goes.

 

[IH8Rice]

are they going to give you a $100 credit or just $50 towards a new shock?

 

[Udi]

I called Yeti regarding an RC4 for my 303R. They state that there is a tune specific to the 303R and that it can be ordered direct from Fox. I haven't talked to Fox yet as I can't afford a $600 shock right now.

As I said later in that post, an OEM product made for yeti to ship with 303R frames. It's possibly easy/easier to get that stuff in the US, but overseas it's nearly impossible to get your hands on the bike-specific OEM tunes, because the distributors aren't usually provided with any.

That is not correct according to Malcolm from CC. They have different tunes (starting with the 2010 tune) depending on the bike you ride, and no, it is not only recommended settings.

Pretty sure my original post is correct. Like davep said, CC don't currently offer, nor have they ever offered bike-specific/rider specific tunes. The only thing that has happened is that the adjustment range has been increased for 2010 (a change introduced early in 2009), but this replaces the previous shock, meaning that there is still just one shock tune for everyone.

I'd like to see whatever you read quoted verbatim because I suspect a misunderstanding, either that or we're missing something, because the last time I spoke to malcolm was fairly recently too (I have two new CC's shipped this year sitting on my desk).

 

[pantsman]

My mistake, apparently the adjustments negate the need to have different tunes for different bikes.

As for the Vivid, rode one on my buddies V10, it was ok but I didn't feel that it was a significant step above the DHX 5.0 not to mention he's already had to send it back to get rebuilt.

-edit- CCDB is on the way from go-ride, after a week of riding I'll send it back in exchange for the RC4 I'll keep you guys posted on how it goes.

Hey mate, I'm currently seriously thinking about a Cane Creek for my V10 but am yet to hear from someone that has actually ridden with on in a V10, sooo How did it go?