[AngryBeaver]

Hey Guys

Got myself a little dilema! I have had a Mondraker Summum on order for some time and since then I have hooked myself up with a season over in Whistler! I am very confused now and extremely close to canceling as I really dont know if it will hold up for a seasons thrashing! And, you Canadians dont have any Mondraker Distributors!

I want this bike so bad and nothing else tempts me. Do I cancel and go simple or do I see it through!? Anyone have any experience on build quality etc??

Thanks guys

Greg

 

[IH8Rice]

how much longer do you have to wait?

looks like a great bike, wish we were able to get them here in the States

 

[Pepper Brooks]

I heard the head tubes were cracking on them, which would scare me knowing the punishment that Whistler can dish out! (If you haven't been to Whistler, imagine an endless amount of concrete braking bumps.)

I think that frame would be too slack IMO. I've even heard that some WC guys aren't running their bikes (from other brands) in the slackest settings as it makes the front end wash in corners. In reality, how many tracks do you ride that require a 63 degree head angle?

 

[norbar]

I'm not sure on what planet you live in but last time I was on a wc venue a lot of the guys had 63ha's. For flatter tracks I may see that 63 deg is overkill but Spec, Mondraker, Commencal, Nicolai, Orange, Evil have the option to run them slack for a reason - some pros want that slack. Gee sometimes runs 61, Fabien from what Cesar said 59.5. Slack is not only for steep but also for stability under high speed. I'm currently waiting for my new frame and will be jumping from 65 to something <64 and I really feel that there is place for a slacker bike and I'm far from fast.

Also if you front end washesh out - try to lower the bars

 

[P.T.W]

Not to mention...The Summin has an adjustable head angle from 61-65 as standard.

 

[thom9719]

I'm not sure on what planet you live in but last time I was on a wc venue a lot of the guys had 63ha's. For flatter tracks I may see that 63 deg is overkill but Spec, Mondraker, Commencal, Nicolai, Orange, Evil have the option to run them slack for a reason - some pros want that slack. Gee sometimes runs 61, Fabien from what Cesar said 59.5. Slack is not only for steep but also for stability under high speed. I'm currently waiting for my new frame and will be jumping from 65 to something <64 and I really feel that there is place for a slacker bike and I'm far from fast.

Also if you front end washesh out - try to lower the bars

I agree with the guy a few posts above that some of these new bikes are TOO slack. I was running my Revolt in the slackest setting and the front end was washing in corners and affecting the front suspension. The MS Evil team riders don't even run their bikes in the slack settings (a few of them did at Ft bill) and after switching mine to the slack flip chip settings and the steep head angle, it rides and corners much better.

For most tracks and 99% of riders, the new bikes are too slack.

-KT

 

[norbar]

I agree with the guy a few posts above that some of these new bikes are TOO slack. I was running my Revolt in the slackest setting and the front end was washing in corners and affecting the front suspension. The MS Evil team riders don't even run their bikes in the slack settings (a few of them did at Ft bill) and after switching mine to the slack flip chip settings and the steep head angle, it rides and corners much better.

For most tracks and 99% of riders, the new bikes are too slack.

-KT

So 65 is a bit too steep and 63 is too slack so 64? Also Ft. Bill is not the steepest track on the circut Also the ha should work with other geo numbers that's why I have mixed feelings about adjustable geo. I'm really curious about it.

 

[thom9719]

So 65 is a bit too steep and 63 is too slack so 64? Also Ft. Bill is not the steepest track on the circut Also the ha should work with other geo numbers that's why I have mixed feelings about adjustable geo. I'm really curious about it.

No it's not the steepest, but it is one of the fastest. The super slack head angle is more about high speed than steep trail to an extent.

I don't know if 63 is too slack, maybe a bit, I am really happy with 64, but some of these guys running 59-61 is a little much in my opinion. The added stress on a headtube at that angle is pretty intense.

-KT

 

[norbar]

No it's not the steepest, but it is one of the fastest. The super slack head angle is more about high speed than steep trail to an extent.

I don't know if 63 is too slack, maybe a bit, I am really happy with 64, but some of these guys running 59-61 is a little much in my opinion. The added stress on a headtube at that angle is pretty intense.

-KT

Well as long as they feel confident on it I gues it's okay Geo I think is more about making you feel confident than anything else so it may work for them.
As for high speed I agree but for example a bit with a short cs and slack ha would rather work on steeps but on the flatter parts even fast ones could kinda feel funky. That's what I was suggesting. But I'm doing 3 things at a time now so I may mix up stuff

 

[GoodbyePorkPie]

What so you guys all ride as fast as Gee and especially Fabian LOL

Best April fools joke so far

Let alone the tracks these guys are riding on, steepness and length!

Personally angry beaver I'd wait and get the Summun, good things come to those that weight it will be worth it

You'll also be unique in a sea of sameness even better, I'm sur it will last maybe just get some spare link bolts

 

[AngryBeaver]

The Mondraker also offers a 64 HA guys too. Problem solved!
I think thats what I would be running, but then again I prefered my Commencal in a 63HA.

Pepper Brooks, where are you hearing rumours of cracking head tubes? If this were true and I could see proof, then I will pull out asap.

I dont think I have to wait too much longer, but then again, I'm heading to Whistler in May!

 

[norbar]

What so you guys all ride as fast as Gee and especially Fabian LOL

Best April fools joke so far

Let alone the tracks these guys are riding on, steepness and length!

Personally angry beaver I'd wait and get the Summun, good things come to those that weight it will be worth it

You'll also be unique in a sea of sameness even better, I'm sur it will last maybe just get some spare link bolts

Gee's and Fabien's bike have slacker than stock ha's so apparently we don't ride that fast Though I still don't see the whole slack vs steep flame war around here. Imho You can go a bit slacker than 65, don't know how much as I haven't tried and I think it also has a lot to do with cs and cockpit length (too short and you get your weight overly close to the back wheel ergo you wash out) and not just being only slack or only steep. I really don't see why people think about geo numbers being separate.



btw. from what I hear summums are a bit late here also - some people ordered them and wait but I have to agree with prok pie - if you can get it before whistler I'd wait. You've had faith in the bike when you ordered it so why loose it now?

 

[AngryBeaver]

btw. from what I hear summums are a bit late here also - some people ordered them and wait but I have to agree with prok pie - if you can get it before whistler I'd wait. You've had faith in the bike when you ordered it so why loose it now?

I had faith when I ordered it as it had a lifetime warranty and we have a distro in the UK and didn't have any plans for Whistler, been a last minute thing and there isn't a distributor in Canada!

 

[norbar]

I had faith when I ordered it as it had a lifetime warranty and we have a distro in the UK and didn't have any plans for Whistler, been a last minute thing and there isn't a distributor in Canada!

And for how long do you want to go to whistler? Also sorting warranty over the ocean should still be possible. I'm not sure about UK-Canada but I've done it in cases of different euro countries.

 

[ronan]

theres a chance you might not even get one depending on stock, i recently had to not get a summum because there is no more L framesets.. atleast thats what i was told

 

[GoodbyePorkPie]

Gee's and Fabien's bike have slacker than stock ha's so apparently we don't ride that fast Though I still don't see the whole slack vs steep flame war around here. Imho You can go a bit slacker than 65, don't know how much as I haven't tried and I think it also has a lot to do with cs and cockpit length (too short and you get your weight overly close to the back wheel ergo you wash out) and not just being only slack or only steep. I really don't see why people think about geo numbers being separate.



btw. from what I hear summums are a bit late here also - some people ordered them and wait but I have to agree with prok pie - if you can get it before whistler I'd wait. You've had faith in the bike when you ordered it so why loose it now?

I hear ya and agree, for most of us 65/64 degree and even 14" BBs are more than sufficient, Ive always liked slack but 64 and my DHR with a 14.4" BB is perfect.

Possibly the Summum and new DWL DHR Revolt etc with there anti squat etc and pedaling characteristics offset the lower BB as do some of the newer shocks that sit higher in there travel so works well with that GEO and BB configs.

I hear only that the Summum pedals really well which ya take that with a grain of salt compared to what, my DHR also pedals well, interesting that the Summum and DHR non DWL ver 08/09 for instance have similar progressive shock curves.

So its all relative which is what I was meaning with GEOs and rider abilities.

Def think its worth waiting for myself, that and the new DHR really will be interesting, just a pity no DHR on the WC circuit to see how it stacks up against the Summum / Lapiere with Blinky and others in WCs this year

 

[norbar]

About lapierre I'm curious if Blinky will even ride stock geo as the 920 is pretty damn short. At least the 09 model was.

 

[loolilon]

I've been riding the summum almost four month now
The bike in new and since I'm one of the"pre production bikes" I felt it
The bolts come loose you must put lock tide before you start riding
It’s a noisy bike the inner cables make lots of noise
73 mm bb seems none relevant anymore I came from 83 took me a while to get use
I agree that 63 ha is way to much see were my upper crown located just to lower the handlebar
Forget about the geo set that’s bull**** they hardly get alone with the production and the shipping of the bike so the ha plates will be ready for sale in 6 months time
When you understand that this is the price you want to pay for having one life will be easy. you are on your own(bolts,hardwere…all on you)
Other then that it’s a true dh race bike very low very nimble corners super well I can feel the grown near my face when I go down
Feels very alive popping, jumping, braking all super fine
I came from a jedi and the summum is less inspires me for pure fr ride like the jedi maybe ill get use to it…

 

[AngryBeaver]

I've been riding the summum almost four month now
The bike in new and since I'm one of the"pre production bikes" I felt it
The bolts come loose you must put lock tide before you start riding
It’s a noisy bike the inner cables make lots of noise
73 mm bb seems none relevant anymore I came from 83 took me a while to get use
I agree that 63 ha is way to much see were my upper crown located just to lower the handlebar
Forget about the geo set that’s bull**** they hardly get alone with the production and the shipping of the bike so the ha plates will be ready for sale in 6 months time
When you understand that this is the price you want to pay for having one life will be easy. you are on your own(bolts,hardwere…all on you)
Other then that it’s a true dh race bike very low very nimble corners super well I can feel the grown near my face when I go down
Feels very alive popping, jumping, braking all super fine
I came from a jedi and the summum is less inspires me for pure fr ride like the jedi maybe ill get use to it…

So is the only problem you find with the bike the loose bolts and lack of replacements??
Did you ever get the replacement bolts from Cesar?

Greg

 

[loolilon]

The bolts came from specialized and I copy the elliptic nut and basically I put lock tide on every bolt and the problem gone
The suspension is tied

 

[loolilon]

share your ride...

 

[buckoW]

share your ride...

I have some friends around here that ride the round tubed protos of the Summum and Durham. I checked one out yesterday that had full BOS suspension. It felt great in the parking lot! Two locals have their production Summums but they are still skiing for the moment. They seem like great bikes but I have only done a small section of trail on one and it was not production so I have no idea how they compare.

 

[cesar_rojo]

Hi everyone!!!

Sorry but been quite busy lately building up a design studio here in Barcelona and not been much over here...

I will like to give you my point of view on various things and you let me know what you think about it!

For the ones that say 63º is crazy and being able to go up to 59.5º (yes i know 63-2= 62, haha! but with fork height you can go down to that.) is crazy I will give you my point of view. I used to thing as you do, but since Fabien convinced me to try the bike more slack I see things really different.

For the ones that don't want to go slack you can put bike up to 65º (don't thing anyone wants to go 66º, we have the durham that is like summum but on std of 65º), but as I said since I rode 63 don't want to even thing going something more steep.

On the other hand slack bike doesn't depend on how fast you are, probably any of you if you compare to me the difference is smaller than Fabien and I. And we rode in Schladming same geo, just I was on medium stock frame and he was on a Large stock one.

To me setting up a geometry does not depend on how fast you are, depends on how much extra confidence gives you on the most difficult parts of the track.
This year was for me first year on competition after 7 years not riding any Dh at all (I started riding again with the proto of the Summum) and this geo has gived to me that extra confidence. That was demonstrated in Schladming (steepest track of this years WC.) were I ended up with 60º head angle and 450mm chainstay something that FAILS on parking lot test (yes, bike feels like ****), but gives you so much confidence on fast and steep parts of the track, because you don't need to compensate the super steep head angle putting your as* over the tire. You can keep your normal riding position on every moment. That gives you so much more confidence and grip on from wheel.

I never thought I could ride a bike that slack and propably for 90% of tracks you won't need it, but I'm sure that geo gived me the extra confidence to end up 29th on the most difficult world cup of the year. Being not a PRO, just a person like any of you that works 10h a day, trains on free time changing lunch for a ride or at night on a velodrome, goes really latest day possible to races, has no mechanic and being 7 years away from riding I'm sure bike had really big part of this results.

Anyway, what i wanted to say is that if you have it there, if you need it to, I belive it was more useful to have a chance to go up to 61, than have an option to go 67 or 66, so we decided that steepest was going to be 65 and moved from there, but also we wanted that our riders can use a STD frame.

To all the ones that have adjustable head tube, give it a try on the slackest position (you will need a few days to get used to it), but I'm sure once you try 63º you never want to go back as I feel is perfect compromise for all tracks. Let me know what you thing once riden on it!

I want to make clear that I don't want to convice any of you that this is better than that or the other way around, just try to make you be more open minded and really give a try a slack head angle, cause I used to think it was not good, but once I tried it made me change my mind totally...

About what pepper brooks said about tubes cracking (I supose it was an aprils fools joke) but to clarify we haven't had any tube cracking (ok, bikes havent been much around and Fabien has only riden his production bike since schladming last year), but we had no problems till now. But I can tell you we have the thickest tube on the head tube of the market (2.6mm) and one of the most thick tubes on medium taper (1.6mm) And if you look to the design of the bike all the forces from suspension are distributed in a single machined part, so not weldings in beetwen high strees points.

Also we went quite on the safe side on this bike (that's why we give lifetime warranty) frame is around 3.4kg with hardware and no shock on medium size.
It could sound that is quite light, but if I tell you that Fabien rode since November 08 to August 09 ((or worlds, can remember exact date)being a pro that rides so much faster than any of us with a 60º head angle and almost rode it everyday) the same single frame. This frame was 2.85gr and only at worlds appeared a really small crack on the reinforce (this was 1.4mm and now the tube there is 2.6mm as on prototype we didn't use tappered tubes so we had to put a gusset there) of the head tube, to me sounds that we went pretty safe as any PRO cracks one bike a year minimum (ok, theres some that break many more this days), probably no one recognises it...

Hope this is not too long and anoying to read

Cheers!
C.

 

[AngryBeaver]

Thanks Cesar, this does help im my decision! I think its great you can openly admit you had trouble with fabiens WC bike. Honesty mean allot!
I will wait for the Mondraker to arrive. Lets just hope it arrives before I depart for Whistler in May!

Cesar, will you be in Whistler this summer?

Thanks again

Greg

 

[10rubkaz]

I just wanted to say that I have a summum and have had it for 2 months. The front did feel a bit looser than my session on my first ride. I have had to adjust my style a bit, move weight forward to weight up the front wheel. Now I love it, it feels fast, agile and controllable. Anyway just thought I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s a very nice bike to ride.

 

[loolilon]

hi
what kind of fork do you ride?
im useing a 2008 fox 40 the lower crown is set to 203 mm from the wheel but i had to lower the upper crown as much as i could just to feel right(see the upper picts)
can you upload a pic?

 

[10rubkaz]

My only Pic of my summum at the moment

 

[ZoRo]

My only Pic of my summum at the moment


View attachment 100606

I agree with the slack angle benefits, but wow, that bike looks... SLACK!

 

[10rubkaz]

Yeah, it is pretty slack but it feels sweet, so you can&#8217;t argue with that. Well, I say that but this is RM so somebody will.

 

[loolilon]

did you lower the upper crown as much as you can ?

 

[Factory Rider]

Hi,

I´m riding it since 3 weeks know....not in the park by now...but on locak dh track riding the bike rocks, everything just feels very fluid!

 

[10rubkaz]

No didn&#8217;t lower the upper crowns I&#8217;ve just got it set up pretty neutral. I am going to start playing with all the geometry soon.

 

[Cybercorreio]

Hi there,

Ola Cesar,

I got one Summum Pro frame and just finished the bike assembly.

I did today the first ride and it was promising.

What I am missing is a manual or information about the bike, like the torque values for the screws on the linkage, perhaps a chart for the shock springs, which are the specs for the head set and for the bottom bracket (chainline can be one issue), etc.
Also what could help would be to get one place (let me know if there is one ) with some tips how to:
Manage the almost impossible task of the internal cabling for the rear brake
Reduce the noise of the cables chattering in the interior of the frame
Clever solutions for the non delivered chain guard
Starting point for the adjustement of the RC4 shock
Wishing all the best for this Bike (Summum) and company (real clever solutions)
Pedro

 

[-C-]

Hi there,

Ola Cesar,

I got one Summum Pro frame and just finished the bike assembly.

I did today the first ride and it was promising.

What I am missing is a manual or information about the bike, like the torque values for the screws on the linkage, perhaps a chart for the shock springs, which are the specs for the head set and for the bottom bracket (chainline can be one issue), etc.
Also what could help would be to get one place (let me know if there is one ) with some tips how to:
Manage the almost impossible task of the internal cabling for the rear brake
Reduce the noise of the cables chattering in the interior of the frame
Clever solutions for the non delivered chain guard
Starting point for the adjustement of the RC4 shock
Wishing all the best for this Bike (Summum) and company (real clever solutions)
Pedro

I sent Cesar a PM with some questions when mine turned up to check the spring weight. It seems if you are ~75kgs the standard 350 spring is about right.

The rear cable routing is definatly interesting. Its actually quite easy to get the cable through the downtube section, but if you have braided hoses, its nearly impossible to get the cable through the chainstay - it just doesnt bend enough. Mine is ziptied to the underside of the chainstay.

Speak to Mojo ref the RC4 settings, I called them for mine & they were pretty helpfull. The suggestions they had for the compression side of things was different to what I expected, but having ridden all weekend with them, it seems to be fine.

So far it's all good, the clearcoat on the frame seems to look a little tatty courtesy of the uplifts here quickly though. I'll probablystrip it bare soon enough.

 

[KavuRider]

Man, I really dig this bike, too bad they aren't readily available in the States. I'd love to get a chance to ride one.

Coming from old school "steep" bikes, I am really digging this new long, low, slack trend.

 

[Rustycable]

I put sponge into the down tube to stop the cables rattling .
I also had the holes drilled out on the chain stay, so that I could get brake hose through,not easy though!

 

[Henkka.k]

I am a bit lost whit rear shock settings in my Summum. Could you recommend settings for me? I weight about 75kg.

 

[Henkka.k]

Has somebody manage to get headangle cups out of frame? They seems to be very tight and I am afraid to hit them more, it feels like frame is cracking before they come out of the frame.

 

[Tamo]

Has somebody manage to get headangle cups out of frame? They seems to be very tight and I am afraid to hit them more, it feels like frame is cracking before they come out of the frame.

Yes I agree. The 0 angle cup dont have a proper edge, so its hard to get something in there to stick so you can pound it out.

I used parktools headcup removal tool. And it worked fine after some serious cursing. Just remember to grease everything up before you press in the cups again.

 

[voodooisland]

just changed my spring to titanium & seen the lower axle/shockmount has serious wear!2 stripes about 0,1-0,2mm deep & 2mm wide;and this after just 7 days of riding dh.
anyone here the same problem?both shockmounts still slide in with no play,so it still works,but if the wear continues........breaking mounts are no fun.the german distributor just said:ride it until it has some play & then get back to us for warranty!!good recommendation......'cause this will be when more parts will have suffered & i need to replace more parts-they will earn more!!