[jonKranked]

I don't think they can/should strip him of his titles

why? IF he did dope and that was the reason he won, and won the way he did, it makes him one of the biggest frauds in history of cycling, and of athletic competition in general.

Look at it this way, its been a hidden problem in cycling for years. It needs to stop. In order for the racing culture to change - the riders, the teams, the officials, the UCI - something big is going to have to happen. If that means you have to strip the winningest rider in the history of le tour, then maybe that's what it will take.

 

[Pegboy]

Hidden? Whitey Bulger was hidden; doping/ drugs in road cycling...not so much.

As stated earlier, strip him and the titles go to who? Ullrich? nope he's been a confirmed doper, Contradore..same thing and on down the list you go.

Let him hold his titles and put him into general population (prison) if it turns out to be true! That will scare a bunch of skinny, leg shaving, spandex wearing guys a hell of a lot more than stripping them of titles after they've earned millions!

 

[jimmydean]

yea, i recognize that there's a gray area, but its somewhat of a technicality. that area resides between what the WADA/UCI is aware of and has banned, and the new PED's they're not yet aware of / haven't developed a reliable test for. It's like computer hackers, those looking to game the system are always going to be a few steps ahead of those writing the rules. Just because a substance isn't banned (yet) doesn't mean its not doping/cheating.

And this is the issue. You can't test for something you don't know they are doing and you don't know if it even works until after someone does it. So can you really ever stop it? Think of how much money a company that develops an enhancement drug can make if they do something like win the Tour 5 times with it. The incentive is there because the money is there.

I am sure they made a lot more by pimping what they sold Lance to others once he left.

I say let them dope and become the freaks of nature they are and see how far we can push it. America, F@ck yea!

 

[jonKranked]

Hidden? Whitey Bulger was hidden; doping/ drugs in road cycling...not so much.

As stated earlier, strip him and the titles go to who? Ullrich? nope he's been a confirmed doper, Contradore..same thing and on down the list you go.

Let him hold his titles and put him into general population (prison) if it turns out to be true! That will scare a bunch of skinny, leg shaving, spandex wearing guys a hell of a lot more than stripping them of titles after they've earned millions!

give the title to no one. Let it serve as a marker in history of cyclings dark days of doping.

 

[jackalope]

Just as an aside, and yes I realize this is a bike message forum, but I always get a chuckle when the average American sports fans blasts road cycling for cheating/doping/drugs, then they go watch NFL games all Sunday. In a way, at least road cycling has made an attempt (weak or not) to address the issue, where the NFL just smiles and busts a couple guys per year, just to make it look like they're trying. Lulz...Hell the Carolina Panther's PUNTER was all yoked up on 'roids a few years ago. That said, if you're really cynical, I would guess you might support the way the NFL handles it (which is to say, ignore it). IMO, I would guess HGH, 'roids, deer antler dust, et al is extremely common in elite soccer, olympic track, NBA, college & NFL football, and perhaps even high quality pr0n. Basically, when a lot of money is involved, a lot of cattle hormones are usually involved. Sadly for me, there doesn't seem to be a lot of money in 40+ Cat 1 DH racing, so it's just Schlitz and burned brats for this old guy.

 

[Pegboy]

The NFL guys get punished through the concushunz...

And let's be honest, the NFL is really just WWF/WWE with pads.

 

[jackalope]

If only they would start using cheap folding chairs and balsa wood 2 X 4's, I would be a die hard fan.

 

[stevew]

white guys doping riding bikes....zero fvcks given.

 

[jimmydean]

Just as an aside, and yes I realize this is a bike message forum, but I always get a chuckle when the average American sports fans blasts road cycling for cheating/doping/drugs, then they go watch NFL games all Sunday. In a way, at least road cycling has made an attempt (weak or not) to address the issue, where the NFL just smiles and busts a couple guys per year, just to make it look like they're trying. Lulz...Hell the Carolina Panther's PUNTER was all yoked up on 'roids a few years ago. That said, if you're really cynical, I would guess you might support the way the NFL handles it (which is to say, ignore it). IMO, I would guess HGH, 'roids, deer antler dust, et al is extremely common in elite soccer, olympic track, NBA, college & NFL football, and perhaps even high quality pr0n. Basically, when a lot of money is involved, a lot of cattle hormones are usually involved. Sadly for me, there doesn't seem to be a lot of money in 40+ Cat 1 DH racing, so it's just Schlitz and burned brats for this old guy.

You know for years the WWF couldn't have shows in Oregon because it was considered a sport and as a sport, you get tested. They argued in court that it was scripted and COULDN'T be a sport, but it wasn't until soon after the name change that they could do it.

At least grown men watching the NFL is a lot less gay then wrasling.

 

[jdcamb]

I have tried to contact Norba. I was on dope when I raced at Mt Snow in the late 90's. I feel I need to make amends to all the other Sport Class racers who didn't smoke a joint or two before the race.

 

[jimmydean]

I have tried to contact Norba. I was on dope when I raced at Mt Snow in the late 90's. I feel I need to make amends to all the other Sport Class racers who didn't smoke a joint or two before the race.

And to make up you will match them now? Or are you just letting them all know you were holding and too tight to share to make yourself feel better about it?

 

[syadasti]

I have tried to contact Norba. I was on dope when I raced at Mt Snow in the late 90's. I feel I need to make amends to all the other Sport Class racers who didn't smoke a joint or two before the race.

Myles will be pleased

 

[MMike]

Myles will be pleased

as well as the Housemans

 

[sanjuro]

Even I don't give a f

 

[jdcamb]

And to make up you will match them now? Or are you just letting them all know you were holding and too tight to share to make yourself feel better about it?

I really am that transparent. It always amazed me that no matter how high or drunk I was people still allowed me to work on their bikes...

 

[I Are Baboon]

I have tried to contact Norba. I was on dope when I raced at Mt Snow in the late 90's. I feel I need to make amends to all the other Sport Class racers who didn't smoke a joint or two before the race.

Did you buy from Missy Giove?

 

[jdcamb]

Did you buy from Missy Giove?

I don't remember....

 

[OGRipper]

It sure doesn't look good for the uniballer.

Remember that the USADA is subject to a completely different set of rules than those that applied in the criminal case that was recently dropped. Things the Justice Department could not use are fair game for the USADA.

He's screwed if he changes his story. If he loses, he'll call it a conspiracy. And widespread apathy will help.

 

[jonKranked]

update: its not just armstrong that's being charged, but 5 other former teammates/associates:

"USADA's letter said the agency was also bringing doping charges against Johan Bruyneel, manager of Armstrong's winning teams; team doctors Pedro Celaya and Luis Garcia del Moral; team trainer Pepe Marti, and consulting doctor Michele Ferrari."

 

[Wumpus]

Riders given six-month delayed ban by USADA

Four former teammates of Lance Armstrong will receive six month bans after they confessed to doping and testified against the seven-time Tour de France winner, according to De Telegraaf.

George Hincapie, Levi Leipheimer, Christian Vande Velde and David Zabriskie are said to have given evidence in the USADA investigation which has charged Armstrong with doping. All four riders are currently taking part in the Tour de France, but in recent weeks, USA Cycling revealed they opted not to be considered for the Olympic Games.

Today's report, which is front-page news, also names Garmin-Sharp boss Jonathan Vaughters. It is not clear whether Vaughters too will face suspension.

"Miraculously, USADA has arranged for the suspensions to begin at the start at the end of the season so that they are able to race both the Tour de France and the Vuelta a Espana," the article states.

In mid June, USADA formally charged Armstrong with doping with the use of evidence gathered in the investigation into potential doping on the United States Postal Service (USPS) (1996-2004), Discovery Channel (2005-2007), Astana (2009) and RadioShack (2010) cycling teams. Johan Bruyneel, Dr. Pedro Celaye, Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral, Dr. Michele Ferrari, and Mr. Pepe Marti are also accused of a variety of doping violations, from the administration of doping products, trafficking, assisting and abetting and covering up.

Within the 15-page letter detailing the charges, USADA pointed to 10 witnesses to the alleged conduct, made up of cyclists and cycling team employees, but until now their identities remained secret.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-vaughters-give-evidence-against-armstrong

 

[JohnE]

And the positive blood tests are where? I am soooo tired of this, let it go already. How many US tax dollars have been spent in pursuit of a one balled guy on a bike? Jeebus...where else could that money have gone?

 

[narlus]

And the positive blood tests are where? I am soooo tired of this, let it go already. How many US tax dollars have been spent in pursuit of a one balled guy on a bike? Jeebus...where else could that money have gone?

 

[Wumpus]

Vaughters responds...Though it seems weird that those four didn't want to be considered for the Olympics.

Team boss moves quickly to deny reports in Dutch press

Garmin-Sharp team boss Jonathan Vaughters has denied that he nor anyone else involved with Slipstream Sports, the owners of the team, have been given a six-month ban by the United States Anti Doping Agency (USADA) in the wake of this morning's reports in Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf.

The front page of this morning's edition carried a report saying that Vaughters has been named - alongside American riders Levi Leipheimer, George Hincapie, Christian Vande Velde and David Zabriskie - as a witness in USADA's ongoing Lance Armstrong doping investigation.

The article claims that the four riders have all confessed to doping and have testified against seven-time Tour De France winner Armstrong. The paper says that they have all been given six-month bans from cycling by USADA, which will kick in at the end of the season, in exchange for their compliance. The paper also named Vaughters as a witness but stopped short of categorically stating that he had been suspended too.

Vaughters, who is in France leading his team at the Tour, has used his Twitter account to issue a denial: "Regarding the Dutch media report: no 6mos (sic) suspensions have been given to any member of Slipstream Sports. Today or at any future date."

In the Garmin team hotel in France this morning, Zabriskie stated that the matter was now with USADA and refused to confirm or deny if he has testified.

Later this morning Slipstream Sports released a statement, which reads:

"Our sole focus is on Slipstream Sports. We created Slipstream because we wanted to create a team where cyclists could compete 100 percent clean. It is an organization built on the core values of honesty, fairness and optimism. Slipstream is built on the belief in our ability to contribute to changing the sport's future through a persistent commitment to the present.

"As we have always said, we expect that anyone in our organization who is contacted by any anti-doping or government authority will be open and honest with that authority but at this moment, we - our organization, our riders and our staff - are focused on the Tour de France. We won our first Grand Tour in May and to achieve similar success here, we need to focus on that. We can confirm that our Tour team is entirely focused on the Tour and media reports of suspensions are untrue."

 

[JohnE]

Same story...both Texans too...hmmm...

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

Yea! Killer boots, man!

 

[IH8Rice]

now is he really "busted?"

Declaring "enough is enough," Lance Armstrong says he will not fight charges brought by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, a surprising decision that sets the stage for the cyclist to be stripped of the Tour de France titles that turned him into an American hero.

Armstrong, 40, said his decision did not mean he would accept USADA 's sanctions. His lawyers threatened a lawsuit if USADA proceeded with punishing Armstrong, arguing that the agency must first resolve myriad disagreements with the International Cycling Union over whether a case against Armstrong should be pursued against based on the evidence.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/story/2012-08-23/Armstrong-doping-charges/57258616/1

 

[MMike]

Stripped of his titles........

Show of hands! Who is surprised?

 

[JohnE]

USADA cannot strip him of any titles awarded by another agency, can they? That would be like the NCAA stripping the Baltimore Ravens of teh Super Bowl title.

 

[worship_mud]

to be honest, the Ravens should be stripped of everything. i don't care by whom.

on topic: i'm soooooo happy i can finally rub that under the nose of the yellow ribbon toting roadie scum at my cycling club! it's a good day.

 

[worship_mud]

thinking about it: lance throwing in the towel is the worst possible end to this. he can still say that he never doped and no-one can prove otherwise... the whole sense of the persecution is gone. this seems to be the best out-come for him, he can stick to the "i'm fed up with that sh*t"-line and still claim he never touched anything else than mineral water and raw spaghettis...
a technical question: who gets the titles he's been stripped off? IIRC the top five ( or top ten) from these years are all (more or less) all convicted dopers...

here are the second placed riders:

1999 Alex Zülle
2000 Jan Ullrich
2001 Jan Ullrich
2002 Joseba Beloki
2003 Jan Ullrich
2004 Andreas Klöden
2005 Ivan Basso


only Beloki was not convicted, but was part of the investigations around Operación Puerto and withdrew from the 2006 TdF

 

[Westy]

Anyone who thinks Lance was clean is delusional, believing in a very nice feel good history. That being said he was the finest doper, not only avoiding getting caught for decades but beating a long line of convicted second, third... place dopers.

As big of a douche I think Lance is, stripping his titles is silly as he pretty much won on an evenly dirty playing field. His accomplishments were remarkable.

 

[JohnE]

...and it wont cost him a penny. I still think he is the victim of a witch hunt. Did he? Yeah, I think he was doing something...but the fact remains, he never popped positive. All the evidence is hearsay, and coming from Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton? Please...

 

[Westy]

...and it wont cost him a penny. I still think he is the victim of a witch hunt. Did he? Yeah, I think he was doing something...but the fact remains, he never popped positive. All the evidence is hearsay, and coming from Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton? Please...

Floyd and Tyler lost all credibility but there are several credible individuals who only had everything to lose to drop the dime.

 

[worship_mud]

...and it wont cost him a penny. I still think he is the victim of a witch hunt. Did he? Yeah, I think he was doing something...but the fact remains, he never popped positive. All the evidence is hearsay, and coming from Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton? Please...

come on, john, what's that? "well, i'm sure he betrayed and lied to everyone, but the others who also did so are not as cool as him, so let him off the hook" ?
and he did "pop positive", that was then cleared with the help of a 100.000 $ donation to the UCI for a bloodtesting machine (oh, the irony...)

 

[JohnE]

I am thinking he may have made a dope deal (HAH! Topical humour there...) with the UCI, just to get the USADA off his back. He really only staed that he wont address or fight anything anymore...

 

[I Are Baboon]

Says Barry Bonds, "At least I'm not that guy!"

 

[Pesqueeb]

Says Barry Bonds, "At least I'm not that guy!"

Is it still a witch hunt if he's actually guilty?

 

[UNHrider]

Is it still a witch hunt if he's actually guilty?

yeah but whats the point if everyone else is too?

 

[JohnE]

...and what do you do with witches?

 

[Pesqueeb]

Build a bridge out of him?