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Huh, you know what? Housing *isn't* a great investment...

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,859
12,843
In a van.... down by the river
Well, you have people saying a mortgage most likely will be less than their current rent. I guess I am dumb if I'd rather buy a house for the same amount as it is to rent and have something to show for it. That's just me though.

I rather be giving my money to the bank instead of the landlord giving it to the bank.
I've included you in this group, Old Man:

"...you're a stodgy stick-in-the-mud that wants nothing more than to tie himself down to a piece of land with a hut built on it for the next 20 years."

My advice stands - rent in your 20's and LIVE IT UP. Travel... move... try 15 different places to live in your "area"...
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
32,119
378
Bay Area, California
I've included you in this group, Old Man:

"...you're a stodgy stick-in-the-mud that wants nothing more than to tie himself down to a piece of land with a hut built on it for the next 20 years."

My advice stands - rent in your 20's and LIVE IT UP. Travel... move... try 15 different places to live in your "area"...
This RE market is the perfect time especially for first time home buyers, they also have the opportunity to make a few bucks in the process if they decide to sell in 3-5 years.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
I bought my first house for $26,500.00 cash, fixed it up and sold it on a contract for $78,000.00. Used the proceeds to buy an $85,000 dollar house that I meant to fix up (but never did) and sold that one for $135,000 also on a contract. The income from both of these houses pays the mortgage on my current home (bought for $123,000) plus a 5 year note on my lake property. All in all I owe pretty much what I am owed - not a bad place to be.

Buying my first home was the best financial decision I've ever made. The key is to keep your costs reasonable by buying less house than you can afford.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
32,119
378
Bay Area, California
I bought my first house for $26,500.00 cash, fixed it up and sold it on a contract for $78,000.00. Used the proceeds to buy an $85,000 dollar house that I meant to fix up (but never did) and sold that one for $135,000 also on a contract. The income from both of these houses pays the mortgage on my current home (bought for $123,000) plus a 5 year note on my lake property. All in all I owe pretty much what I am owed - not a bad place to be.

Buying my first home was the best financial decision I've ever made. The key is to keep your costs reasonable by buying less house than you can afford.
Very cool!!!
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,841
15
So Cal
Now that I am a homeowner and I am in my late 30's I have to say that I wish I would have bought when I was in my 20's.

You know what happens when you live it up in your 20's? You retire a decade later than you could have. And the partying I am capable of now that I am financially stable is far grreater than the partying I could afford when I was in my 20's. Even with a mortgage I can travel world wide, afford a decent car, and basically have fun.

Screw living it up. Buckle down, sacrifice and learn as much as you are comfortable with about finance, and how the economy works. Work hard, make as much money as you possibly can and get out of the rat race early. When you're in your 40's and looking at retiring you will not look back on your 20's and think, "Gee I wish I would have partied more and earned less".

And (AFAIK) houses are a moderate, long term investment. And much like any investment, you need to know what you are doing to make money at it.

My opinion. Your milage may vary. (But probably not by much :D )
 

greenhood

Turbo Monkey
Jun 12, 2006
1,084
0
SEATTLE-MINNEAPOLIS
I bought my first house for $26,500.00 cash, fixed it up and sold it on a contract for $78,000.00. Used the proceeds to buy an $85,000 dollar house that I meant to fix up (but never did) and sold that one for $135,000 also on a contract. The income from both of these houses pays the mortgage on my current home (bought for $123,000) plus a 5 year note on my lake property. All in all I owe pretty much what I am owed - not a bad place to be.

Buying my first home was the best financial decision I've ever made. The key is to keep your costs reasonable by buying less house than you can afford.
$123,000 will buy you nothing where I live.
 

Austin Bike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
1,558
0
Duh, Austin
We bought our place in 1997. Paid it off in 1999. Lived there, mortgage free since that time. Property taxes were ~$7K/yr when we moved in and are ~$10K now. That is the equivalent of ~$8-900/month, which is what rent would be.

Value of the house has gone up ~180% since we moved in.

Real estate can be a good investment, but generally speaking it is just as risky as other investments. Especially because the investment requires incremental investments (taxes, repair, etc.) It is not a liquid investment, so some of the profit you make on the house is lost in having to take a lower price because you need to sell at a particular time versus waiting for the right buyer.

I recommend people look at their house as a place to live that they might make money off of versus an investment. The interest on a house consumes the benefit of the investment. Your best real estate investment is NOT buying the right house that appreciates, it is getting out of the mortgage quickly.
 

sam_little

Monkey
May 18, 2003
783
0
Portland, OR
We bought our place in 1997. Paid it off in 1999. Lived there, mortgage free since that time. Property taxes were ~$7K/yr when we moved in and are ~$10K now. That is the equivalent of ~$8-900/month, which is what rent would be.

Value of the house has gone up ~180% since we moved in.

Real estate can be a good investment, but generally speaking it is just as risky as other investments. Especially because the investment requires incremental investments (taxes, repair, etc.) It is not a liquid investment, so some of the profit you make on the house is lost in having to take a lower price because you need to sell at a particular time versus waiting for the right buyer.

I recommend people look at their house as a place to live that they might make money off of versus an investment. The interest on a house consumes the benefit of the investment. Your best real estate investment is NOT buying the right house that appreciates, it is getting out of the mortgage quickly.
Or, offsetting taxes and interest with a renter if you have a wholly separate living space for them, or in your place if you're single/young/motivated. Or, save every penny to purchase another place and have the majority of your interest, taxes, and some principal paid for by some other sucker, errr, renter. The single house investment plan is bunk unless you live in exactly the right area. That said, there are myriad cost-sharing or cost-offset schemes (rental depreciation, after living there for two years to hit the capital gains milestone, for instance) that can make real estate a great investment.

If you're in your twenties and willing to put in the work, you can turn a not-so-great "home" into a great "house" for another person to snatch. Not sure how well this works in unconstrained markets where tract homes span the horizon and rent is cheap, but certainly in any western city that isn't so cost prohibitive as to prohibit market entry is a pretty good bet.

Good luck!

Edit: Oh yeah, and paying off a house in two years is absolutely crazy. Unless you're into some serious cash (e.g. financial industry-scale bonuses), I have no idea how one would accomplish this, especially in a place like Austin. If that's you, good for you!
 
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ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,196
4
I'm in the same exact boat (23, renting, not too much saved but a steady job with good pay).

I think I'm going to buy in the next few months if I can find something good. I'm sick of renting.
I bought at 24 and the nice thing about buying a house is that it fixes your expense for shelter. We actually refinanced to 4.5% (4 years later) and our house payment is lower now. So it worked out well....I make more money now and our housing expense has actually gone down. I have a modest home though and don't buy into the McMansion or housing an investment idea....thats what stocks are for.
 

I Are Baboon

The Full Dopey
Aug 6, 2001
32,444
9,540
MTB New England
My advice stands - rent in your 20's and LIVE IT UP. Travel... move... try 15 different places to live in your "area"...
That great advice if you have no direction in life. If you're happy where you are and have a good career, buying a house is better than renting in pretty much every way imaginable. Sure it's more work, but how is that a bad thing? It's YOURS. You can do pretty much whatever you want with it.

Wife and I bought a house in our early 30's. We would have bought sooner if we could have. For us, we consider it our home and not really an "investment" per se. Sure the financial aspect of it is a consideration, but it's more of an afterthought than anything. I love our little house. :weee:
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,859
12,843
In a van.... down by the river
Now that I am a homeowner and I am in my late 30's I have to say that I wish I would have bought when I was in my 20's.

You know what happens when you live it up in your 20's? You retire a decade later than you could have. And the partying I am capable of now that I am financially stable is far grreater than the partying I could afford when I was in my 20's. Even with a mortgage I can travel world wide, afford a decent car, and basically have fun.

Screw living it up. Buckle down, sacrifice and learn as much as you are comfortable with about finance, and how the economy works. Work hard, make as much money as you possibly can and get out of the rat race early. When you're in your 40's and looking at retiring you will not look back on your 20's and think, "Gee I wish I would have partied more and earned less".

And (AFAIK) houses are a moderate, long term investment. And much like any investment, you need to know what you are doing to make money at it.

My opinion. Your milage may vary. (But probably not by much :D )
Talk to someone old that traveled a lot in their youth. I can almost GUARANTEE they won't say "Gee, I wish I had worked all that time when I was young and waited until I was old and infirm to travel and have fun."

I'm not talking about "partying" your 20's away. That's a waste of any decade. I'm talking about doing some LIVING when you're in your 20's. 'Cause that age won't ever come back to you.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,859
12,843
In a van.... down by the river
That great advice if you have no direction in life. If you're happy where you are and have a good career, buying a house is better than renting in pretty much every way imaginable.
I covered those people:

"...you're a stodgy stick-in-the-mud that wants nothing more than to tie himself down to a piece of land with a hut built on it for the next 20 years."

I realize there are lots of people that fall in this category. Even in their 20's.

:D
 

I Are Baboon

The Full Dopey
Aug 6, 2001
32,444
9,540
MTB New England
I covered those people:

"...you're a stodgy stick-in-the-mud that wants nothing more than to tie himself down to a piece of land with a hut built on it for the next 20 years."

I realize there are lots of people that fall in this category. Even in their 20's.

:D
Hey, some people are happy being stodgy sticks in the mud. Besides, when did selling your house and moving become not an option?
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
32,119
378
Bay Area, California
I covered those people:

"...you're a stodgy stick-in-the-mud that wants nothing more than to tie himself down to a piece of land with a hut built on it for the next 20 years."

I realize there are lots of people that fall in this category. Even in their 20's.

:D
If you have the means in your 20's, you can always buy a place, then lease it out for 2-4 years and travel. That way you're mortgage is getting covered while you're out seeing the world. Then you have a place to go back to when you're done.
 

Knuckleslammer

took the red pill
Earth is a total loss. Everybody all worried. Got to save up for retirement. Got to do this, got to do that. Got to save money for stuff. Got to have stuff to have happy.

You own nothing. Nobody owns anything. Your chasing an illusion. Nothing is yours to keep, so why go nuts going after it all? ILLUSION

Nest egg? GONE!! House? GONE !!!! Body? GONE!!! Good looks? GONE!!!!

You will ridicule me because I speak the truth.

Here it is, so listen. Your all going nowhere. You wont need your i-phone, you wont need your $200 Oakley sun glasses.

You wont need to worship sports players.

Will you learn what is important? Oh yes, you will. :thumb:
 

Leethal

Turbo Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
1,240
0
Avondale (Phoenix)
If your committed to living somewhere for 7 years + it makes sense, much before that and it doesn't ... My last two houses I owned and lived in 4 years and 7 years.. the last one I had to sell during the current bust market.

That said now is a great time to buy as housing prices are a lot more reasonable then they were 2-3 years ago.
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,684
4,916
North Van
That great advice if you have no direction in life. If you're happy where you are and have a good career, buying a house is better than renting in pretty much every way imaginable. Sure it's more work, but how is that a bad thing? It's YOURS. You can do pretty much whatever you want with it.

Wife and I bought a house in our early 30's. We would have bought sooner if we could have. For us, we consider it our home and not really an "investment" per se. Sure the financial aspect of it is a consideration, but it's more of an afterthought than anything. I love our little house. :weee:
Yep. Like all things financial, the earlier the better.

I had the opportunity to buy a condo about 10 years ago in Montreal when I was fairly plush with cash after some co-op workterms from school. I didn't do it. I've done a fair amount of cool stuff instead, but part of me definitely wishes I'd just taken the leap at the time. It would likely be paid off and earning me money by now.

Now I'm living in Vancouver in a pretty decent neighbourhood, and unfortunately, growing accustomed to a lifestyle that I can afford as a renter, but not as an owner.

Once we finally do buy something, it will be a pretty big reality check. We're either going to have to downsize big-time, or become suburbanites.
 

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
8,362
1,608
Central Florida
Earth is a total loss. Everybody all worried. Got to save up for retirement. Got to do this, got to do that. Got to save money for stuff. Got to have stuff to have happy.

You own nothing. Nobody owns anything. Your chasing an illusion. Nothing is yours to keep, so why go nuts going after it all? ILLUSION

Nest egg? GONE!! House? GONE !!!! Body? GONE!!! Good looks? GONE!!!!

You will ridicule me because I speak the truth.

Here it is, so listen. Your all going nowhere. You wont need your i-phone, you wont need your $200 Oakley sun glasses.

You wont need to worship sports players.

Will you learn what is important? Oh yes, you will. :thumb:
That's sooo Tyler Durden. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
I covered those people:

"...you're a stodgy stick-in-the-mud that wants nothing more than to tie himself down to a piece of land with a hut built on it for the next 20 years."

I realize there are lots of people that fall in this category. Even in their 20's.

:D
Seriously....

Your 20's is no time to tie yourself down. Like my friend once said

your 20's you build knowledge
your 30's you build wealth
your 40's you build power
your 50's...diplomatic immunity


There's way more to life.

"No direction in life"? Please........How about getting out there an experiencing the world?
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
$123,000 will buy you nothing where I live.
Choosing where to live and work is also a big part of the equation, I lived in Tumwater for 2 years commuting 45 miles to work each way so that I could live comfortably without a huge mortgage payment. The lake property I own is about 20 miles outside of Shelton - a 40 minute commute to Olympia.

Anyhow... a $100,000.00 home in Butte, MT would be half a million in Seattle.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Bingo - you should be buying a home, not making an investment.
Indeed. You should not feel pressure to buy something you aren't ready for just because it might be a "good investment". A good financial investment, may be a bad investment in your overall lifestyle.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no real reason to OWN a house if you don't have kids. Even less so if you're single.
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,684
4,916
North Van
As long as you stay within your means, buying isn't a bad idea. Buying close to your financial limit when you're fresh out of school would be dumb.

As has been mentioned, if you're comfortable with your job and are into nesting, go for the buy. Just know that your ambitions to jetset around and go backpacking and/or working on an ashram or whatever will suffer as a consequence.

Unless you're loaded.
 

Austin Bike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
1,558
0
Duh, Austin
Edit: Oh yeah, and paying off a house in two years is absolutely crazy. Unless you're into some serious cash (e.g. financial industry-scale bonuses), I have no idea how one would accomplish this, especially in a place like Austin. If that's you, good for you!
Austin is not that bad. Just keep in mind that in the late 90's the town was full of stock options from high tech companies. I decided that owning my house was more important than a big screen tv and a ferrari.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Whatever dude....Apparently if people have chosen to spend their youth doing stuff differntly than you, they are dumb.

Regardless of the possible monetary gain, why, when you are young, would you saddle yourself with a a house? If you're just starting out your adult life, why chop yourself offat the knees with repsonsibility you don't really need. You use the term "life lacking direction". Whose life has or even needs direction in their 20's?

In 1998 was gainfully employed at Pratt and Whitney....doing just fine. But the chance to go to Boeing came up .I had nothing tying me down. So I went for it. If' i'd had a house, there's no way I would have done it.

As for having a house without kids, again, why bother? If you can spend your weekends going on getaways with your significant other, instead of mowing lawns or painting windows? But I guess your perspective is a little skewed as you wife does ALL of the chores around your house.

In my humble opinion, you don't really need the space or stabilty of home ownership until you have kids....in general. You may end up working on your bike in your living room of your apartment, but who cares? Ain't your carpet.

Nope. Renting is hardly an investment.But I think it can suit someone's lifestyle quite well.