[dan-o]

300+ runs at Whistler without a scratch

 

[Inclag]

I was wondering why this thread was still at the top...

Yes, some of the prototypes have broken, that's the goal, to start light, and add material after issues are found. It's pretty much impossible to start heavy and then try to reduce weight and pray for no failure. It just doesn't work that way. Plus, FEA with composite construction is dodgy at best. Testing is just a far more efficient means of arriving at the end goals that we're shooting for. So to answer the call for "transparency", here's what I've got for you: 1) I didn't design the bike, I just act as an advisor to Evil, just as I do with Ibis, Pivot, Turner, Morewood, Devinci, BH, Spooky, IF, Seven and a couple other brands that you don't know about. 2) We've seen the bikes have failures in a couple areas. The chainstay yoke was too thin on one version and that cracked. It wasn't as stiff as we wanted anyways so that's a good thing. We removed material in the front end to add flex and changed the stiffness profile of the swingarm mounts in the front end as well. I think that one early frame may have cracked up by the seat tower, it certainly was blemished. We added material just to be safe as it was an area that did not make a stiffness change. The front of a couple of the swingarms broke where the aluminum insert will be. Brook did break one but the other is all good. 3) To answer the conspiracy theorists questions, no, I did not know that Brook broke one of the two swingarms until after I was on here last, but it was not unexpected. The swingarm Brook broke had almost 300 runs on it so honestly I am completely amazed that it lasted that long given that initially they were just for stiffness testing and not for big hits. They seemed to be holding up so Zink, Strobel, and Cam and Mason have been riding them without inserts. I rode it hard myself and it held together. That being said, the insert design was signed off on in June and new swingarms and frames with the latest layups will be here in the next week I am told. 4) I expect at least one more revision after this, maybe two. 5) We don't learn anything if nothing breaks in testing, so I am hoping for more failures.

How's that for "transparency"? Nothing really earth shattering here, just another day in the office.

Time to go suspension testing for a few days, have fun berating each other!

Dave

This thread is still on top because the marketing strategy has been comprised of leaked photos, announcements of who has been riding and testing the bike, and general *wink wink* secrecy. That sprinkled with the Ridemonkey peanut gallery, some upset ex-Evil customers (heck I'll admit I still get irrational towards Intense bikes), and some staunch Avy Cult-ish Evil supporters are why this thread probably won't go away soon. Some how I think that you're probably aware of this or else you wouldn't have aired your concerns to whomever is running Evil now

With today's social media driven markets, I'd be more inclined to err on the side of "No press is bad press". So long as the final product works, and the late phase changes don't bootstrap the company, I wouldn't sweat about the banter. If the product works, I think everything will be fine.

Good luck with the bike and enjoy the riding/testing! I'm envious of the lifestyle to work balance that you've got!!

 

[CBJ]

Thread kind of turned ****ty but interesting to hear about the development of a carbon frame.

 

[iRider]

300+ runs at Whistler without a scratch

It is force field protected.

 

[aenema]

Gwin also had serious issues with a CF Session, if that were actually news worthy, but then again Trek isn't the company to be hated on quite like Evil.

my $.02

Talk about stirring the pot there, seems like you are calling it black and you are the kettle.

But I do get your point, it was loaded but it is also a very publicly developed frame with a lot of people like yourself waiting for warranty with a vested interest. Some more patiently than others so the subject is loaded before anybody says a thing about the frame. I just think your response was more emotional than was really warranted. People asked why he didn't race on it if he were practicing with it and yeah, Transcend could have remained silent but what fun is that?

 

[IH8Rice]

With today's social media driven markets, I'd be more inclined to err on the side of "No press is bad press".

trek and spesh agree

Gwin also had serious issues with a CF Session, if that were actually news worthy, but then again Trek isn't the company to be hated on quite like Evil.

i would think if it happened in public, people would be talking about it since the bike was keep ultra secret, unlike the Undead



edit: whered your post go??

 

[blackohio]

Talk about stirring the pot there, seems like you are calling it black and you are the kettle.

But I do get your point, it was loaded but it is also a very publicly developed frame with a lot of people like yourself waiting for warranty with a vested interest. Some more patiently than others so the subject is loaded before anybody says a thing about the frame. I just think your response was more emotional than was really warranted. People asked why he didn't race on it if he were practicing with it and yeah, Transcend could have remained silent but what fun is that?

Which is why I deleted that after posting, my interest isn't in stirring the post, I made a emotional response based on how the other portions of my day were going. His response rubbed me the wrong way, that is all. I apologized to him for insinuating he made some other responses. I felt no additional explanation was needed nor warranted after I had typed it. So I deleted it, not fast enough though.

 

[slyfink]

300+ runs at Whistler without a scratch

Maybe I read DW's post wrong, but it seems to me that he said the swingarm has 300+ runs on it, not the whole frame.

I just double checked, nope, I'm not wrong. reading is fun-damental.

I'm kinda impartial to this whole debate caus' I haven't had, and don't intend to have (in the near future anyways) a Revolt or an Undead, but I find it funny that a while ago people were saying "no information, it's a tragedy, the company is folding, I lost my money, want more communication etc etc etc". And then when the company does provide information about product development people are saying "the bike breaks, they can't make a bike, it's a tragedy, the company is folding, I lost my money, want less communication etc etc etc". you can't have it both ways folks.

On the other hand, Transcend's post was a little "leading", perhaps even a bit crabby. Perhaps he's still bitter about his bike? Transcend, I'm not trying to twist a knife in a wound, I sure hope they find your bike and you get it back...

 

[toodles]

Saw one here in Whistler 3 days ago that looked like it had done plenty of runs. It certainly wasn't looking new and shiny and was still being ridden.

 

[iRider]

Maybe I read DW's post wrong, but it seems to me that he said the swingarm has 300+ runs on it, not the whole frame.

I just double checked, nope, I'm not wrong. reading is fun-damental.

You are right, it is! Try again:

I think that the 100m is an exaggeration / joke. He did at least 4 runs on it the first day and like I said, the bike had ~300 runs on it already (Many at Whistler).

 

[dw]

300+ runs at Whistler without a scratch

There were 2 bikes... But I'm about 99% sure that the one in the pic is not one of the new frames either. Pretty positive it's been ridden a bit.

 

[the law]

you wanted to add flex? What happens when it is too stiff? I've been riding some carbon trail bikes this summer, and the best thing that they seem to bring to the table is improved chassis stiffness over aluminum frames. The front end and rear end seem to work better together.

One reason you want flex in the frame is to allow the bike to absorb bumps better at a lean angle. The more you are leaned over, the more difficult it is for your suspension to absorb the bumps because the force of the bumps is not in line with the suspension. So, you may want a frame that has some lateral flex. However, too much flex (or in the wrong direction) and you have a wet noodle. This has been an issue for a long time on motorcycles and I assume that mountain bikes have some similar issues.

That said, evil may have other reasons why they want to design in flex.

 

[Santa Maria]

Brook is a real professional - not one look at the bike, after it has broken:

http://videos.mtb-news.de/videos/view/15476

 

[blackohio]

Brook is a real professional - not one look at the bike, after it has broken:

http://videos.mtb-news.de/videos/view/15476

not sure if serious.

 

[StyledAirtime]

And he said "was that big or what" to the French guy walking towards him

 

[fro biker]

Brook is a real professional - not one look at the bike, after it has broken:

http://videos.mtb-news.de/videos/view/15476

And that is why Pros test things before the final draft. Me thinks he sent that on purpose just to see the result; I think he got the expected answer. New bike for Val no doubt as that is a serious proving ground. Get itttttt!

 

[Freddy Salgado]

you wanted to add flex? What happens when it is too stiff? I've been riding some carbon trail bikes this summer, and the best thing that they seem to bring to the table is improved chassis stiffness over aluminum frames. The front end and rear end seem to work better together.

Dont no if this helps? Ages ago I did a C-dale training camp & noticed that Myles had an aluminium rear end on his DH rig, at that time carbon was speced on some of the other rigs rear ends they had in line up that year. I asked him why he did not run carbon on rear end of DH rig? He told me that it was to stiff and would make god awful chatter noise when going into turns, just didnt work right and needed moar flexy feel. Alots happened with carbon tech since then,(carbon still in infancy being used for DH) but that same issue with carbon rear ends being to stiff may still be problem for DH rigs? Build that puppie outa bamboo & flax, add second shock then they might have something.

 

[demo 9]

This thread is irrelevant, we all know you cant make DH bikes out of plastic

 

[p-spec]

gt fury ? ^^^^^

 

[Santa Maria]

not sure if serious.

it is....

 

[boozy1976]

Brook is a real professional - not one look at the bike, after it has broken:

http://videos.mtb-news.de/videos/view/15476

he looked more like: "f...k, how do i get the broken bike out of the photographers shootingrange..."

 

[numerik]

Not sure I would dare to ride Evil

 

[frango]

Damn! That's not cool, at all. Luckily on a tiny jump...

 

[Deano]

also at a 24 hour race.

that can mangle the best frames.

its impossible to know how many hours that frame had etc.

but yeah everyone knows by now that the revolt had its share of trouble.

i posted up a pic of a Tr450, busted in the headtube as well, i dont hear a chorus of people scared to ride them though

 

[iRider]

i posted up a pic of a Tr450, busted in the headtube as well, i dont hear a chorus of people scared to ride them though

In contrast to Evil they have warranty replacement frames and normally it takes no time to get one.

 

[Santa Maria]

also at a 24 hour race.

that can mangle the best frames.

its impossible to know how many hours that frame had etc.

but yeah everyone knows by now that the revolt had its share of trouble.

i posted up a pic of a Tr450, busted in the headtube as well, i dont hear a chorus of people scared to ride them though

Yes, everthing can break - but the question is if a company can provide warranty replacements in time

(the course at that 24h race is relatively short and pretty easy (it does not use the technical and rocky parts of the roriginal DH Track)....

 

[slyfink]

You are right, it is! Try again:

ha! you're right, I stand correct. Reading is fun-damental!

 

[norbar]

also at a 24 hour race.

that can mangle the best frames.

its impossible to know how many hours that frame had etc.

but yeah everyone knows by now that the revolt had its share of trouble.

i posted up a pic of a Tr450, busted in the headtube as well, i dont hear a chorus of people scared to ride them though

It can mangle frames the same as regular park riding. Its not like you win by going at WC speeds all the time. I doubt anyone can do that for 24 hours.

Though to be honest a vid or a picture of a broken frame is never really evidence. Unless it is a trend I dont care. The problem is the old evils had problems. I really hope they sort everything out as the undead is a sweet ride.

 

[Deano]

thats exactly the point, you see a broken frame and people make all sorts of assumptions.

i also stated we do know the Evil revolt had/has serious issues, but a lot just base their opinion on hype and a single incident they see.

or at least thats the way it comes out around here

Personally i would try a undead when they feel its ready, as it would be suicide for them to bring out something even 1/3 as "crack" happy as the revolt.


but i doubt they will bring it to market this season, maybe at the beginning of next it will be 100% ready ?

and last, its all e-spec since the only folks who know are playing mutes

 

[Mo(n)arch]

MS racing said in a comment on a german forum, that the frame won't be released until 2012.
I think they should go on with testing until the Undead is bombproof. Then get a reliable manufacturer and then sell the frames.

 

[norbar]

thats exactly the point, you see a broken frame and people make all sorts of assumptions.

i also stated we do know the Evil revolt had/has serious issues, but a lot just base their opinion on hype and a single incident they see.

or at least thats the way it comes out around here

Personally i would try a undead when they feel its ready, as it would be suicide for them to bring out something even 1/3 as "crack" happy as the revolt.


but i doubt they will bring it to market this season, maybe at the beginning of next it will be 100% ready ?

and last, its all e-spec since the only folks who know are playing mutes

I really like the looks of the revolt but I still want something more rearward from carbon. GT Fury is nice but it needs anglecups for proper geo, the frame price is stupid and for that price I want it a bit lighter. Maybe if the antidote guys nail it.

 

[IH8Rice]

MS racing said in a comment on a german forum, that the frame won't be released until 2012.
I think they should go on with testing until the Undead is bombproof. Then get a reliable manufacturer and then sell the frames.

then wait for the class action lawsuits to commence

 

[frango]

Maybe if the antidote guys nail it.

Antidote price is at least as silly as Session 9.9

 

[atrokz]

I really like the looks of the revolt but I still want something more rearward from carbon. GT Fury is nice but it needs anglecups for proper geo, the frame price is stupid and for that price I want it a bit lighter. Maybe if the antidote guys nail it.

Marc B. has been running offset shock hardware to adjust his Fury.

 

[karpi]

Marc B. has been running offset shock hardware to adjust his Fury.

he's also been running an angled head set right?

 

[norbar]

he's also been running an angled head set right?

I think the 2011+ come with them stock if Im not wrong.



Frango - im talking about the bike itself. I wouldnt buy a carbon session if it was half that price. Just dont like it.

 

[Eli.]

also at a 24 hour race.

that can mangle the best frames.

its impossible to know how many hours that frame had etc.

These frames are, at most, only a couple of seasons old. It is possible that this one was abused heavily, but that is still not a failure one would ever want to have.

 

[General Lee]

The way that one broke, I wouldn't be at all surprised if his headtube sleeve bolts were loose. Oops

 

[UiUiUiUi]

so any news regarding this frame?

maybe some interbike "whispers"

 

[blackohio]

zink, what the f#ck.