Evil Undead
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- 2 months = 2 years 2 weeks =2 months baiters gonna bait buck me in the s buck the trend buck you! butthurt activate! consumerism could careless e-speculation! evil = blame the asians evil is evil evilhate=itsthenewblack expensive hobbies haters wanna hate hype machine rolling ih8rice wants new evil? its on the way new evil=no evil proto=2 yrs;production=?? suckers new evil≠old evil thetruth is dope trumpdoucheinvasion waiters gonna wait where is bradflyn
One simple amateurish question.
Undead has internally tunable head-angle. Does one need to remove fork from HT to do so, or can it be done "on-demand" from outside?
Undead has internally tunable head-angle. Does one need to remove fork from HT to do so, or can it be done "on-demand" from outside?
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According the La Bresse WC Thread, the bike survived a whole 100m out of the start gate...
From what I can see, you have to remove parts of angleset to do this...One simple amateurish question.
Undead has internally tunable head-angle. Does one need to remove fork from HT to do so, or can it be done "on-demand" from outside?
What do you mean?!
I agree, but as a podium contender why has he used it for practice then? That does only make sense for marketing reasons.........
why does this not surprise me.....
hard to see from the pics that are around but the Revolt didnt require you to take your fork offOne simple amateurish question.
Undead has internally tunable head-angle. Does one need to remove fork from HT to do so, or can it be done "on-demand" from outside?
NO WC races until the next prototypes arrive. The current prototypes don't have the forged aluminum insert that ties the flip chips to the main pivot and rest of swingarm. These current prototypes are mainly for frame stiffness tuning. Once the next gen prototypes arrive, assuming that all goes to plan, there MAY be the option for the WC riders to use the bike in competition. Until then practice runs only.
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...what he said.
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...what he said.
What's with the "didn't make it 100m" statement that has been tossed around a few times here? Did this prototype fail, or did Evil gather the pertinent information they were out to collect and move on, knowing full well that the proto wouldnt withstand a WC race sans these forged parts?
Curious to know and hoping for some transparency on the development plan, as its interesting to see how Evil is developing this as opposed to the Revolt, which wasnt clear of errs in production form.
...ahhh Internetz... you're so dreamy.
The "didn't make it 100m" statement isn't a statement so much as a comment someone made in a different thread.
To answer all of your questions, scroll up 1 post above mine to see what one of the designers said.
EDIT: (that designer being dw)
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You mean the person I quoted and was asking the question to?...ahhh Internetz... you're so dreamy.
The "didn't make it 100m" statement isn't a statement so much as a comment someone made in a forum on another internet site.
To answer all of your questions, scroll up 1 post above mine to see what one of the designers said.
Any more irrelevant comments from the peanut gallery? Edit:
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LoL!
It's like you don't want to accept what he said... he's giving you total transparency and adressing things directly... and what he said answers all of your questions sooooo... what tha?
It's like you don't want to accept what he said... he's giving you total transparency and adressing things directly... and what he said answers all of your questions sooooo... what tha?
Please point me in the direction where Dave either refutes or confirms the claim made by another member here, that the carbon Evil Undead frame fails on track. If you can't then Dave should fire you from being his unofficial representative, because you clearly aren’t very good at it.
Rather than ask said member, I figure I'd ask Dave himself to avoid hear-say. I didn’t interject my opinion, but rather asked and explained why I was curious. Being a professional in the same field Dave used to work in, I have my reasons for picking his brain on process.
For instance, why were the forged links excluded from this prototype, if they are final design, and is his post a round about way of saying that is the reason it failed?
edit: I'm also interested, because it seems like they are developing this right, which seems to be a rarity these days.
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OK - OK, point taken.
I thought you were going in a different direction.
My apologies for interrupting a valid line of questioning.
I thought you were going in a different direction.
My apologies for interrupting a valid line of questioning.
This is an awfully long thread for a company that has no products for sale.
..which should end with dave saying "Sure Atrokz, I'll have them send you the prototype to put on your wall at home!!"
.At least I can dream, right??
Oh c'mon man. I know you're a fanboy but really? I left out details as i figured it was probably better for everyone involved. Maybe Dave or Kevin will chime in with exactly what happened, seeing as Dave has already posted, and a few whiny bitches have already whined to Kevin that things have broken and someone pointed that out....ahhh Internetz... you're so dreamy.
The "didn't make it 100m" statement isn't a statement so much as a comment someone made in a different thread.
To answer all of your questions, scroll up 1 post above mine to see what one of the designers said.
When you test and build bikes in full view of the media at a world cup, and it breaks under someone in the top 10, it's a pretty big deal.
Dude your post does nothing but poke and jab. It was posted with no accessory information, no what happened just "it didn't even last" it was a bull**** post. As to whether or not you made to original comments stevie replied to I said it might not have been you, just that I remembered it as such.
Will the whiny ones please stand up!
Someone asked what happened and why brook wasn't on it. I answered why in the least detailed way possible. I can definitely share all of the ugly details, but I thought it'd probably be better not to.
You can feel free to complain to Kevin all you want, it doesn't really bother me. Chances are I have known kevin way longer than you have.
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Is your dad bigger too?
You want to hash it out we can do it over the phone, However long you've known KEvin is irrelevant. I'd consider him a friend, you might be a better one. I don't really ****ing care. Your response seemed rather loaded and baiting in nature. Maybe I misunderstood you. If so I'm sorry.
And let's be real clear here. You didn't respond to a question on what happened. You responded to a post about the pictures of it with the first "it survived a whole 100m out of the stat gate." Just so were clear here. You made the first post, not a response about what happened, why or where.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3673448&postcount=183
Im done with this post here, Like I said you want to discuss it further, IM me your phone number and i'll call you personally to talk about it. No threats, just a discussion about a remark.
You want to hash it out we can do it over the phone, However long you've known KEvin is irrelevant. I'd consider him a friend, you might be a better one. I don't really ****ing care. Your response seemed rather loaded and baiting in nature. Maybe I misunderstood you. If so I'm sorry.
And let's be real clear here. You didn't respond to a question on what happened. You responded to a post about the pictures of it with the first "it survived a whole 100m out of the stat gate." Just so were clear here. You made the first post, not a response about what happened, why or where.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3673448&postcount=183
Im done with this post here, Like I said you want to discuss it further, IM me your phone number and i'll call you personally to talk about it. No threats, just a discussion about a remark.
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Ya, I have time to argue with the internet about a fact that the internet didn't like.
Cool story though.
Pretty sure people were wanting to know why the carbon Undead was set aside at race time. Transcend has info I think we would all like to hear and I am sure we will in time but come on. But really, who doesn't want to know all the details about this much anticipated frame? I think Transcend did well to hold back the juicy bits knowing we are all dying to know what he does.
Come on Dave, your turn please...
Come on Dave, your turn please...
Haha, drama on the intertube. Kevin is brave to let this frame out in the public like this. Anybody who expects transparency during product development is on crack. For a while I couldn't even tell people what I was working on much less what development was going on.
Cut Evil/Kevin some slack and look forward to seeing a bike that hopefully will be refined and better from the lessons learned. Mistakes are ok, repeating mistakes isn't.
Cut Evil/Kevin some slack and look forward to seeing a bike that hopefully will be refined and better from the lessons learned. Mistakes are ok, repeating mistakes isn't.
+rep blackohio
Prototypes break. More or less it's that what they're supposed to be. The only problem is that that the Undead failed under a Worldcup guy during a worldcup race (practice).
People expect that a prototype used during an official race should hold up, because companys get that much coverage during an event like this.
Eventhough we don't know what happened, it throws a bad light on the Undead.
People expect that a prototype used during an official race should hold up, because companys get that much coverage during an event like this.
Eventhough we don't know what happened, it throws a bad light on the Undead.
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to blackohio again."
So...why is blackohio care so much? quick! make the thread pointless ASAP. Kill the hype!
I was wondering why this thread was still at the top...
Yes, some of the prototypes have broken, that's the goal, to start light, and add material after issues are found. It's pretty much impossible to start heavy and then try to reduce weight and pray for no failure. It just doesn't work that way. Plus, FEA with composite construction is dodgy at best. Testing is just a far more efficient means of arriving at the end goals that we're shooting for. So to answer the call for "transparency", here's what I've got for you: 1) I didn't design the bike, I just act as an advisor to Evil, just as I do with Ibis, Pivot, Turner, Morewood, Devinci, BH, Spooky, IF, Seven and a couple other brands that you don't know about. 2) We've seen the bikes have failures in a couple areas. The chainstay yoke was too thin on one version and that cracked. It wasn't as stiff as we wanted anyways so that's a good thing. We removed material in the front end to add flex and changed the stiffness profile of the swingarm mounts in the front end as well. I think that one early frame may have cracked up by the seat tower, it certainly was blemished. We added material just to be safe as it was an area that did not make a stiffness change. The front of a couple of the swingarms broke where the aluminum insert will be. Brook did break one but the other is all good. 3) To answer the conspiracy theorists questions, no, I did not know that Brook broke one of the two swingarms until after I was on here last, but it was not unexpected. The swingarm Brook broke had almost 300 runs on it so honestly I am completely amazed that it lasted that long given that initially they were just for stiffness testing and not for big hits. They seemed to be holding up so Zink, Strobel, and Cam and Mason have been riding them without inserts. I rode it hard myself and it held together. That being said, the insert design was signed off on in June and new swingarms and frames with the latest layups will be here in the next week I am told. 4) I expect at least one more revision after this, maybe two. 5) We don't learn anything if nothing breaks in testing, so I am hoping for more failures.
How's that for "transparency"? Nothing really earth shattering here, just another day in the office.
Time to go suspension testing for a few days, have fun berating each other!
Dave
Yes, some of the prototypes have broken, that's the goal, to start light, and add material after issues are found. It's pretty much impossible to start heavy and then try to reduce weight and pray for no failure. It just doesn't work that way. Plus, FEA with composite construction is dodgy at best. Testing is just a far more efficient means of arriving at the end goals that we're shooting for. So to answer the call for "transparency", here's what I've got for you: 1) I didn't design the bike, I just act as an advisor to Evil, just as I do with Ibis, Pivot, Turner, Morewood, Devinci, BH, Spooky, IF, Seven and a couple other brands that you don't know about. 2) We've seen the bikes have failures in a couple areas. The chainstay yoke was too thin on one version and that cracked. It wasn't as stiff as we wanted anyways so that's a good thing. We removed material in the front end to add flex and changed the stiffness profile of the swingarm mounts in the front end as well. I think that one early frame may have cracked up by the seat tower, it certainly was blemished. We added material just to be safe as it was an area that did not make a stiffness change. The front of a couple of the swingarms broke where the aluminum insert will be. Brook did break one but the other is all good. 3) To answer the conspiracy theorists questions, no, I did not know that Brook broke one of the two swingarms until after I was on here last, but it was not unexpected. The swingarm Brook broke had almost 300 runs on it so honestly I am completely amazed that it lasted that long given that initially they were just for stiffness testing and not for big hits. They seemed to be holding up so Zink, Strobel, and Cam and Mason have been riding them without inserts. I rode it hard myself and it held together. That being said, the insert design was signed off on in June and new swingarms and frames with the latest layups will be here in the next week I am told. 4) I expect at least one more revision after this, maybe two. 5) We don't learn anything if nothing breaks in testing, so I am hoping for more failures.
How's that for "transparency"? Nothing really earth shattering here, just another day in the office.
Time to go suspension testing for a few days, have fun berating each other!
Dave
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DW - can you expand on this a little please?
"We removed material in the front end to add flex"
What is the benefit of having a lower torsional stiffness?
Thanks.
Edit to add: I assume you mean torsional k, rather than some other p
Axes/plane....
"We removed material in the front end to add flex"
What is the benefit of having a lower torsional stiffness?
Thanks.
Edit to add: I assume you mean torsional k, rather than some other p
Axes/plane....
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Thanks Dave, that's a lot more in depth of an answer than I expected, as you owe it to no one to inform the public on stuff like this. I used the term 'transparent' because Evil is doing a lot of development out in the open as opposed to Trek and Specialized who have been developing their carbon bikes for some time and we're only just getting a glimpse of them now. Evil's openness to media and the public is, imo, a change from how myself (and others?) are used to seeing it done. Hence the term and question. Might as well ask right?
Thanks again. The bike looks killer, and seeing as I'm getting a carbon bike to race on next year I'm hoping this development comes along well.
I'm not going to get into it here, I've said enough already. You guys can use your imaginations.
Believe me, if it were up to me, nobody would have seen this bike until it was literally sitting in the warehouse ready to sell. I think I said that once before early in this thread. I don't see how all this banter helps anything at all. Maybe I am wrong but I am willing to accept that.
I think that the 100m is an exaggeration / joke. He did at least 4 runs on it the first day and like I said, the bike had ~300 runs on it already (Many at Whistler). I bet that's more runs or vertical than the vast majority of riders do in a couple years... Seriously. Laugh it up, doesn't matter to me one bit, I think that Evil captured the stiffness test data that they were after and that's all that mattered for the weekend.
I think the frame looks great. After they finish the protos and work out some kinks I think it will be a cool frame.
Not sure how it rides because I have never ridden one but good luck to Evil and DW. It looks hot.
Not sure how it rides because I have never ridden one but good luck to Evil and DW. It looks hot.