I will preface this by saying Rick Perry knows as much about shock and suspension set ups as I do, but I was always under the impression that the CCDB Air was designed & marketed as an AM shock, and not a true alternative to a DH coil. Which is not to say others haven't tried it, and perhaps successfully, on their respective DH bikes. I too have a TR450 and rate high on the hack meter, but I've always felt the bike is pretty progressive at the end of the stroke, and that would seem (to me anyway) not to match up well with the natural progressivity of an air shock. My old Spitfire on the other hand was regressive at the end of the stroke, which did mean most air shocks worked well with it (and conversely it would take a "specially tuned" coil shock to work well with it). All that said, perhaps the CCDB air has a big enough air can to where it works a lot differently than say the average RP3, not to mention the cornucopia of adjustment options available. So that was really helpful wasn't it?
But really, if you're happy with the RC4 (as I am), I wouldn't spend considerable amounts of cash on an air shock that might or might not work as well, just to lose to some weight. Instead, drill speed holes and remove heavy, excess shims from your suspension (which can in turn generate income when you sell them to Avy).
i know a number of people who are using DBAir's on the dh rigs with 0 issues.
Meh.Jackalope nailed it, the TR450 is already quite progressive and thus probably not the ideal candidate for an air shock - you'll have difficulty finding a balance between using all the travel and not sitting too deep in the travel to achieve that. If you're happy with the RC4 just stick with it, throw on a Ti spring if you haven't already.
http://forums.mtbr.com/transition-bikes/vivid-air-tr450-687856.htmlMeh.
I've got a vivid air on my DHR and it's way more linear than the wide open RC4 coil I took off. Not saying the DB will be, but the fact that it's an air shock doesn't necessarily mean that it will be.
No kidding. I was just saying that making the generalization that a shock will be more progressive because it's air, than any coil because it's a coil, isn't always accurate. (I guess that was as much a response to your quoted text, more than what you specifically were saying.......my bad). An RC4 is obviously a little bit of a special case, but I'd bet you money that riding both shocks on the same frame, your opinion would be the same as mine.air shocks are generally progressive at end of stroke,
Sag? Oh yeah........took me FOREVER to get it dialed on the vivid air. But I rode both of them somewhere between 30 and 40%. I definitely had the RC4 wide open very intentionally (yes full sized air chamber, yes 120ish psi).My point was, what works on your DHR won't necessarily work on a TR450. The differences between them are significant enough to require different setups.
But off the topic, I'd take you up on your bet if there was a fair way to gauge it - unfortunately it's entirely apples to oranges because the RC4 is only progressively damped while the air shock is progressively sprung, and thus pretty hard to quantify. Out of curiosity, did you measure sag % with both setups? What were the numbers? Also keep in mind that minimum progression on an RC4 involves minimum bottom out and minimum chamber pressure (125).
Nah.You seem to have forgotten that the Vivid Air shock still has a damper with its own air spring effect anyway
That's distinctly different from:I also never said that a vivid air won't ramp up. Just that it does it less so (or more to the point, later than what it replaced on what I'm riding at the moment. I guess I could clarify that by adding 'within the range of most used travel.' On neither shock Have I ever bottomed the bike. What the vivid has done is loosen up the midrange of the travel quite a bit for the same sag.
I've got a vivid air on my DHR and it's way more linear than the wide open RC4 coil
What you say now suggests that what you're actually feeling is the slight mid-stroke fall off that's common in air shocks, rather than a lack of progression vs. the RC4. It probably doesn't feel like a fall off to you because the DHR's shock rate is fairly linear in that region. If you haven't bottomed out either shock, and didn't set both up with the exact same sag, it would be difficult to conclude something as specific as you have (at least it would be for me!).But I do know I prefer the LESS progressive vivid air over the RC4 that came on my current bike.
Not really. What you linked to in that mtbr thread regarding the transition and limited travel is how my DHR felt with the RC4. I could have been more specific...granted.That's distinctly different from:
It's quite strange since Cane Creek themselves advertises it as an alternative to ccdb coil for the frames that require a progressive shock. Sometimes it's good to read the adsI will preface this by saying Rick Perry knows as much about shock and suspension set ups as I do, but I was always under the impression that the CCDB Air was designed & marketed as an AM shock, and not a true alternative to a DH coil. Which is not to say others haven't tried it, and perhaps successfully, on their respective DH bikes. I too have a TR450 and rate high on the hack meter, but I've always felt the bike is pretty progressive at the end of the stroke, and that would seem (to me anyway) not to match up well with the natural progressivity of an air shock. My old Spitfire on the other hand was regressive at the end of the stroke, which did mean most air shocks worked well with it (and conversely it would take a "specially tuned" coil shock to work well with it). All that said, perhaps the CCDB air has a big enough air can to where it works a lot differently than say the average RP3, not to mention the cornucopia of adjustment options available. So that was really helpful wasn't it?
But really, if you're happy with the RC4 (as I am), I wouldn't spend considerable amounts of cash on an air shock that might or might not work as well, just to lose to some weight. Instead, drill speed holes and remove heavy, excess shims from your suspension (which can in turn generate income when you sell them to Avy).