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650b coming sooner than we think?

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Tomasis, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. General Lee New Member

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    But wouldn't a 29er roll over their bodies better?
  2. OGRipper Active Member

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    NORCAL is the hizzle
    Funny thing is that the guys worried about not being able to find wheels and tires probably have years of slightly-used and new supplies stacked up their garages.
  3. CrabJoe StretchPants Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick

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    26" wheels are easier to carry.......so we got that going for us.
  4. mattmatt86 Active Member

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    Exactly. I have tires and wheels for years.

  5. OGRipper Active Member

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    NORCAL is the hizzle
    Dude. You have a fireplace in your bike shop? Awesome.
  6. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Ask the guy in green and yellow running with one :rofl:



    But rolling over is boring. I want to send flying.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  7. jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    Hucking should be mandatory in xc races. If you can't do a 2' drop, you shouldn't be allowed to own, let alone race, bikes that don't have drop bars.
  8. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    No I meant send people flying with my cow catcher. Those old 20s locomotives had some real insight.



    But jesus, look at that photo. That's discraceful. A lot of the xc races I've done I'd come to a roll over to some sort of slope and look down and have that mess in front of me. I've rolled over people tripping, their bikes.......but I just never had the right tools to really initiate lifting a stranger.
  9. jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    I'm curious to do an xc race for exactly that reason. I'll be the only asshole that shows up on a 26" bike wearing baggies and a camelbak.
  10. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    I was certainly that guy. With Lee making fun of my costume :rofl:


    I raced sport and a few expert races before I realized how silly that 'activity' is. The only difference between the classes was that the expert guys were way more fit and they could run downhill with their bikes a little faster :rofl:

    But that my friend.........is where big wheels come from.
  11. sundaydoug Member

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  12. Jim Mac Active Member

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    No, but 650B size feet might've helped!
  13. norbar Active Member

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    That's strange. I was racing XC up untill the age of 13 and people actually rode their bikes down the mountain. I guess years of saddle time can have a negative effect on the size of your jewelery.
  14. atrokz Active Member

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    This is awesome beyond anything posted all year on here, and it's old news...

    1: It slaps convention in the face, and shows that you can race perfectly fine on a 26" bike. 6" of travel adds to the ego bruise many XC pros just recieved.
    2: It shows how athletic pro DHers actualy are.
    3: It's a clear demonstration XC racing is mostly a bunch of super fit guys with low skill levels

    4: When's the last time a dedicated XC pro placed top 20 in a DH event, let alone even qualified....?
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  15. jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    #3 - truth.

    #4 - when was the last time a pro xc rider even entered a dh race?
  16. slyfink Active Member

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    I guess that depends on what you call a DH event... does the Trans Provence count? Caus' Adam Craig, Ralf Naf and Geoff Kabush all placed top ten overall there...

    whatever, I don't care. I don't know why I'm even posting. I think the top riders of all the disciplines could ride circles around me both up and down. And what the pros run has little to do with what I want to run. I don't even care about efficiency, all I wanna do is have fun on my bike. It would suck if in a few years I can't find parts for my recently upgraded to 26"r, but realistically, the life expectancy of mtb products is such that by the time I'm ready to switch bike, 650b is what I'll wind up on, and hopefully they have geometry, tire and rim choices dialled in by then. Until then, all I can do is pray that I can keep getting 26" stuff that I like and makes me grin ear to ear.
  17. atrokz Active Member

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    No. Definately not a DH race. It's more of an enduro event and the guys you posted are definately skilled either way.

    I also agree with your comments. I don't care what people ride. I just really liked that article and am a fan of choice and not a fan of companies strong arming their customers telling them what to ride.
  18. atrokz Active Member

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    Would it be Tomac? That's the only person I can think of.
  19. Sandwich just shake your rump

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    he finished 16/17, his time isn't even listed.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/so...es-pietermaritzburg-2-1/cross-country/results
  20. atrokz Active Member

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  21. Sandwich just shake your rump

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    haha, I'm sorry. It's still cool, but you really do have to look at who he beat in order to judge how well he did! With no time listed it's hard to even compare his feat to other categories.
  22. atrokz Active Member

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    A consolation, is that he charged through sections that xc guys were walking. You'd think after all the '29'ers roll better over rocks' they'd eat their words and actualy ride down a section that would equal a chicken line on a local amature DH race. I don't see the point of something that 'rolls so much better' if the guys who are supposed to be representing this change can't even roll over a 6" rock.....
  23. SuspectDevice New Member

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    I'm assuming you are joking.

    Hanging out with people that aren't morons is my fulltime job. I know most of the pro xc racers in the country and a majority of pro dh races and just about all of the promoters across all disciplines(even that silly road and CX crap)- I talk every day to people that make spec decisions at bike companies, the sales people at companies that make product, international distributors and sales people in every time zone and on the continents that large numbers of bikes sell on.
    I drink beer and do skids with more outside reps for manufactures in one week than most people and I sleep on more bike shop owners couches and eat the food out of their fridges than most people that sell bikes. I'm a big mooching, curious sponge.

    26" bikes are dead, have been for years.
    Pick up a 2013 catalog from any bike company, and look at the 2014 model lines that have already been leaked. 26" is done. It's done because the market spoke and people stopped buying them and shop employees stopped selling them, because all of a sudden consumers on the Thursday night ride were going faster and falling less and slowly the 26" bikes disapperaed from the shops where people ride mountain bikes up, down and across hills.
    That is market demand. 29" wheels aren't really a very good idea for the 120-150mm travel market as far as I'm concerned, but the sales trends in those markets are all heavily skewed toward 29" wheels right now out of necessity, because 26" stuff doesn't move at most shops after the employees and key customers move to bigger wheels.

    650b is perfect for the long-travel trail bike market because thet ride just like 26" bikes, except better.

    Are "early" adopters, like Scott and Rocky Mountain(and Jamis and KHS before them) hoping to "cash in" on the 650b bandwagon? Yeah, that's what capitalism is about and yeah- promulgating a new wheelsize is partially about planned obslescence. 26" wheels are still wicked fun to ride if you stick high-volume tires onto them.

    Bike shop managers are super-duper stoked to get 650b wheels onto the floor- for the last few seasons the "primary upgrade channel" for you average enthusiast consumer who shops at a retail establishment has been The Carbon Hardtail 29'r- normally these are lateral transitions away from 2 season year old 26" bikes in the 4" range. Those consumers are starting to miss suspension, because, you know, full suspension is actually better. Those consumers didn't buy 5"+ 29'rs in significant numbers until last season- which is 2 years out from when the spec decision was made in some office somewhere to offer them. The choice will be clear for most riders as soon as they get on a 29" 140mm bike v. a 650b 140mm+ bike. Opinion will still be split, but at least those of us who like 26" wheels will still have an option for a wheel that handles traditionally and works well for the riding styles we've all developed over the last 20 years. Options are good for the consumer.

    #trufax-
    In the interim if you stick your sweet 26" wheelset into a really killer bike built for 650b wheels you're still going to have a bike that rides pretty damn awesome. Unless your previous bike had a bb "low enough" for Ridemonkey you'll like your new 650b bike more, because the geometry and suspension are likely already better than whatever it was you bought 3 years ago. If you did the wise thing and build your own wheels instead of building a set of "system" wheels you might only be out $110.

    If you buy a new frame right now, no matter what brand or wheelsize, you're most likely going to need a new rear wheel to go 142x12(because, like 26" wheels, olde-tymey dropouts are done), if they didn't make step down crown races you'll need a tapered fork too, because all bikes use tapered headtubes now.
    If you had a QR front wheel on your last bike you'll need a qr-15 compatible wheel. Unless you want to use adapters you're going to need some new cranks too, because threaded bb's are essentially done in the production market(THAT IS THE THING THAT MAKES ME ANGRY) The differences for all that crap pretty small, but so are variations in all sorts of crap that internet punters love to whinge about and incremental improvements all around make a big difference on the trail.

    Does it suck that 26" is done on the showroom floor? No, not for your average consumer, bike shop sales employee, bike shop owner or equipment manufacturer. It certainly doesn't hurt that there will be "new" stuff to sell, but right now consumers are all being sold 29" bikes anyway...

    Will I ever build a 650b DS hardtail? I highly doubt it. Can I see a place for 650b in slopestyle? No.
    Will you have more fun riding the mtb trails you have in Tahoe on a 650b bike? Yeah, you will. Once again, it's the 26" experience, just optimized.

    As far as you, Mr. Woo;
    You write multiple 5000 word essays a year on tires- I'm sure you understand the concept of incremental improvements.

    It's been a long time since we've had some good long threads full of productive hate on Ridemonkey.

    Long live the flame!
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  24. gemini2k Active Member

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    I told myself I'd stop posting in this thread, but this brings my internet anger to a new level. Shimano hollowtech II crank/BB setup is probably the LAST thing on a bike that ever needs to be changed, seriously. I'm running a 6 year old gen 1 crank AND original BB cup setup on my DH bike. 3 frames, 6 years, over 1 million feet of vert. Never once come loose or creaked. It's as if Rock Jesus himself has blessed those parts.

    (Disclaimer, I almost NEVER ride in the wet)
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  25. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Did I say 'morons?'
    Oh sorry, I didn't realize how 'industry' your friends are. Those two are SOOOOO mutually exclusive :rofl:

    Come on man, that's not an argument. It's precisely the far too xc oriented INDUSTRY dorks who can't tell the full difference between the two platforms and who have apparently made the decision that 26" bikes need to die. Part of it is obviously just that they want to sell new bikes again but part of it is also very much because they don't understand the shorcomings of what they're pushing.........and so see no benefit to staying on smaller wheels. Well some of us do. So seriously.......screw those guys. Not all of us need to be told what we know.

    This is an INDUSTRY DRIVEN change, not a RIDER driven one. That's what's so annoying about it. And how fast someone can win a race where climbing by far decides the winner has no bearing on why many (most?) people spend so much time building badass 5-6" travel trail bikes. So the 'industry' can suck it in that regard. Some of us already know how to move bicycles downhill and already have a hard enough time keeping wheels in one piece without weighing as much as a house.

    Of COURSE I have no problem with incremental improvements. But when you sit here over and over and over again proclaiming the death of an entire system.........that's not incremental. That's companies trying to sell bikes to people who don't need them having just discovered a novel way to do it. It sure isn't 'options or choices' either if their catalogs truly are completely devoid of 26" frames.

    I'm really not that worried about it. I'm a pretty smart guy and can easily see the benefit of some super low BB bikes coming out once I put some 26" wheels on them. I just think it's a little funny to watch and irritating to know where these 'decisions' are coming from. I still had a lot of fun riding a 29er this summer. But I was also really glad to get back on a stiff 26" bike that could still be stiffer or lighter.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  26. jackalope Mental acuity - 1%

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    Since we're now airing our grievances Festivus style, I am most upset that these guys will be forced out of business

    http://www.twenty6products.com/

    I mean sh!t, "650Bproducts" just doesn't have the same ring to it. Who would buy annodized stems and pedals from a company like that?
  27. mattmatt86 Active Member

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    And one in my bedroom and one in the dining room. I live in a house built in 1912. I'd trade one of the fireplaces for a dishwasher though...
  28. slyfink Active Member

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    oh I don't know... I'd say "twenty7fiveproducts" has a certain ring to it....

    oh, and woo and suspect... Suspect as much as admits that "promulgating a new wheelsize is partially about planned obslescence", but dude, don't get upset that we're upset! nobody likes to be made obsolete... least of all by the industry folk that we idolize so much!

    I'm just glad I didn't buy those 26" Enve rims I've been lusting after so much... could you imagine a $1600 investment being obsolete before you even buy them?!?!?!
  29. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Oh I'm not upset at all. I just keep being struck by the very apparent difference in who mickey's source crowd seems to be and the people I'm surrounded by.....including industry folks.

    I like riding bikes. I'll do it on whatever. I just don't like being told what I'll like......... cuz I'm a 'murican with a mustache and that's how we roll!
  30. CrabJoe StretchPants Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick

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    You idolize bike industry folks?

    :rofl:
  31. 6thElement Member

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    I've had bikes with HT2, GXP and annoying Shimano 970 XTR and nothing BB has annoyed me as much as a bike I bought earlier this year having a PFBB30 which was toast after a muddy race. I sold the bike frame for a loss shortly afterwards.

    Shimano cranksets really are the best crank install method out there.
  32. jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    this thread:

  33. csermonet Member

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    650b and 29r's are for pussies who can't get their 26 inch wheels to do what they want so they strap on some wagon wheels to compensate for their lack of bike handling skills and manliness. ;)
  34. slyfink Active Member

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    should I have used an emoticon to clarify the intent of that sentence?!!?

    :rolleyes:
  35. CrabJoe StretchPants Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick

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  36. joeg Member

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    I'd like to take this opportunity to invite you to www.santacruzbicycles.com - home of the threaded BB.
    You'll find them on a variety of 26 and 29 inch wheeled models.
    Back to your regularly scheduled nerd battle.
  37. Hacktastic Active Member

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    Then something has already gone wrong in your life.


    The LAST thing to cross my mind when spec'ing out a bike or building a wheel is how I'll appeal to the roadies on dirt.
  38. UiUiUiUi New Member

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    hahaha and please keep it that way, press fit seems a good idea but most manufacturers **** up tolereances way to much..
  39. buckoW Active Member

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    @Suspect Device - I think a 650 slalom bike would rule the flat corners. Drifting the flat corners is what I like the most about those wheels.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  40. norbar Active Member

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    The thing is he want's it to be true so he sees it is true. Last time I checked yurp is a big market and 29ers and 650ers are not as big here, hell they are kinda hard to buy. Also I know close to no people who want to go and jump on them in anything but XC. He claims that if the XC and families want it that all the others have to want it. We are the minority so screw us. Also confirmation bias much? 26 isn't dead in the disciplines we are talking about. Not even close. Even the enduro racing crowd isn't on board.


    I'm interested in trying a 650b bike but the whole idea of "we know better, I know industry xc guys" is really annoying. Especially suggesting we will and shouldn't be able to buy stuff for 26''. I like bald ideas but this is just arrogant.

    Also - must spread rep
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012