that always made me laugh, how will they know that you had that fork on there?
Yet another "DHer's Trailbike"
- Thread starter ZHendo
- Start date
Ha Ha, you got me!!!!!
Quoted for truth. Everyone should rep this NOW.That's a bullseye layered on top of a prior bullseye. Split arrow!
The only reason to have super-slack angles on a 6" travel bike is to stay used to slow steering, even at slow speeds on a small bike.
And it would suck to do anything but descend on it.
But no doubt it's as trendy as a supercharged & nitrous-equipped Audi sports sedan right now to say you want a 30 lbs 6"/6" bike with a 65deg HA.
A good rider can make a normal trail bike haul ass on all sorts of terrain, and doesn't need a super-slack, super-low short-travel bike to do it.
GOLD!
This thread has me dying to finish rebuilding my trail bike, as fun as the hardtail is I need some squish on most of my rides. My 2008 Stumpjumper FSR does the job quite nicely for me, complete tear down and rebuild from the frame up.
2011 Fox 32 Talas RLC FIT 15QR 140 Kashima
DT Swiss 5.1D laced to Hope Pro 2 hubs
Sram XO shifters rear der. and cassette
Shimano XT front der. and servo wave brakes
Sunline 745 bars 19mm rise
Point One Split Second 50mm stem
Cane Creek 110 Headset
Truvativ Stylo Cranks (I know they were cheap...)
SDG carbon I-beam seatpost and I-fly seat
Gamut P30 dual ring guide
Aiming for 27lbs which shouldn't be too far off of the actual build pending tires.
Works perfectly for anything that doesn't require a dh bike the extra 20mm on the fork should slacken out the headangle to around 67.5* which sounds slack but with the talas I can keep it around 68.5 for climbing. I love it, I went looking for a replacement and the only things that interested me were the carbon Stumpy and the Evil Sect. With time.
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sounds like a solid build...pics?
Waiting on some parts to arrive still, the fork is still not available through Fox I am pretty sure they are waiting to sell through the '10 stuff first at least for e.p. deals. Just ordered my shifters and der. from CRC (great people btw), the stem is on the way as well, I may end up building it with my old wheel set and fork (06 32 Talas 130) until I can get my mitts on the '11 fork.
I run the books for a specialized dealer and I've had my eye on the Stumpjumper FSR for some time now. They have a few 09 frames they are blowing out. I have a SJer HT 29er and I love it but I'd like to have something in between that and my DH bike.
I can't recommend this bike more highly! It does everything well without making too many compromises to make for better climbing or descending. With a short stem wide bar and a dual ring guide this bike rips, and is far more versatile than many people give it credit for. I say if you already have a dh bike and a 29er ht you can't build a much better fleet.
sounds like a great bike for trail riding. my trail bike is pretty similar, though not 27 lbs, more like 29-30 lbs. it's a Yeti 575 but not really blinged out. 36 TALAS up front, I punch it to 130 for rolling terrain and 110 for steep climbs.
67.5 deg isn't super-slack but with a 50mm stem it will help to steepen the HA for serious climbing. my 575 is something like 67 deg at full travel on the fork, maybe 66.5, and I can't climb a freakin' thing with that HA unless I get on the very tip of the saddle nose and make my taint scream for mercy, which isn't a fun way to climb for more than 10 seconds or so. I can't understand those cats who say they want a 65 deg HA on a bike they're actually going to pedal uphill. maybe they plan to walk all the hills? since I do rides where I climb for up to 5 hours, I think a 65 deg HA is pure stupidity. maybe I'm the stupid one, though. who knows?
super-slack HA on a trail bike makes sense only if your trails are wide and boring... or if you plan to skid your rear wheel around every tight corner. of course another trendy thing right now is "roost" while cornering, every video-star-wannabe is skidding his rear wheel around in the corners, pretending he's on a moto, thinking it makes him a "hot" rider.
oh boy! I made some dirt fly! I must be a badazz!
but if you like narrow trails and the challenge of going fast around a corner without squaring off the turn, the loose-rear-wheel cornering technique looks more like showboating and less like good riding... IMO of course. I don't live in the land of powdery soil or super-wide trails so I prefer a more connected style of cornering. but maybe that's because I'm super-slow.
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- I regularly climb 2-3k with a 67 degree head angle, and 1k standing on my DH bike with 64 degree head angle. A 65/66 degree head angle wouldn't phase me as long as the seat tube is reasonably steep.
- The trails I ride aren't boring, nor necessarily wide.
- For a tight corner, you can either slow down or rear wheel drift.
To each their own. Calling other people's geometries stupid because they don't work for you is kinda...well...stupid.
gurp, what's your beef?
I said wanting to climb for 5 hours with a 65 HA is a stupid thing. The angle isn't stupid. The stupid thing is wanting to climb for that period of time with a floppy HA.
If you want to come ride with me on some of my 5-hour climbs with your 65 deg HA, I'd be happy to watch you show me what a stud you are. While you walk.
I love when someone pretends they're refuting my post, but ends up agreeing with it, or misreading it where they don't agree. I guess you needed an argument. You sure worked hard to create one!
Which doesn't contradict anything I said.
Which doesn't contradict anything I said.
Please note: I didn't call anyone's angles "stupid." Please work on your reading skills.
I said wanting to climb for 5 hours with a 65 HA is a stupid thing. The angle isn't stupid. The stupid thing is wanting to climb for that period of time with a floppy HA.
If you want to come ride with me on some of my 5-hour climbs with your 65 deg HA, I'd be happy to watch you show me what a stud you are. While you walk.
I love when someone pretends they're refuting my post, but ends up agreeing with it, or misreading it where they don't agree. I guess you needed an argument. You sure worked hard to create one!
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The guys with skill aren't touching their brakes. The skid induced "roosting" is coming from the guys that haven't learned the art of cornering. I think those guys have spent more time watching videos then sessioning corners.
As for the Remedy, it doesn't use a proprietary shock size does it? Its a pain in the ass upgrading when some of these companies use a non-standard shock like the Stumpjumper or TranceX.
re: goofy dh geo on an xc bike:
i just built a yeti 5 as a trail bike, and put a revelation on it. fixed travel 150mm. its 66.5 w/ a 13.5" bb, nice long wheelbase etc. when i put the fork on, i had every intention of shortening the fork and fixing the geo, but it handles perfectly w/ a 60mm stem and wide bars. i really dig it, it climbs exceptionally... but i can climb pretty well anyhow, being a former (as in 10 yrs ago) expert class singlespeed racer. single 32t ring, 26.5lbs, and that bike kills it on colorado front range single track xc rides (ie steep, technical climbs)
so i would say xc geo is every bit, or even more personal than dh bike geo.
i just built a yeti 5 as a trail bike, and put a revelation on it. fixed travel 150mm. its 66.5 w/ a 13.5" bb, nice long wheelbase etc. when i put the fork on, i had every intention of shortening the fork and fixing the geo, but it handles perfectly w/ a 60mm stem and wide bars. i really dig it, it climbs exceptionally... but i can climb pretty well anyhow, being a former (as in 10 yrs ago) expert class singlespeed racer. single 32t ring, 26.5lbs, and that bike kills it on colorado front range single track xc rides (ie steep, technical climbs)
so i would say xc geo is every bit, or even more personal than dh bike geo.
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I think its safe too say that for all of us there is a point where your xc bike gets too close to your dh bike and it becomes pointless. For me - anything over 6" travel can descend fast enough that I need biger tyres, wider rims, bigger brakes, wider bars, etc and it soons becomes a pig to ride on "ordinary" trails. Sure, if my trails were easy up, hardcore down it may be different...
For me I find that my DH skills enable me to ride a shorter travel bike and still spank the xc whippets in the technical sections even when they are on "all mountain" bikes. It also helps me keep up on the uphills with said xc whippets......
So for me the perfect DHers trail bike is a 3.5" travel Iron Horse Azure - completely opposite to what all of you apparently want. Admittedly this is an xc race bike that missed the point and was built too heavy to be a good race bike - but its stiff enough to ride hard and with a 12.5" BB corners pretty insanely well!
After riding a mates Trek Fuel I was pretty much blown away and have been thinking about a new ride ever since - they are an awesome little bike that with the right pilot can do pretty much anything. I can see why a DHer would like a Remedy but I believe most DHers can get away with less and be faster almost everywhere.
For me I find that my DH skills enable me to ride a shorter travel bike and still spank the xc whippets in the technical sections even when they are on "all mountain" bikes. It also helps me keep up on the uphills with said xc whippets......
So for me the perfect DHers trail bike is a 3.5" travel Iron Horse Azure - completely opposite to what all of you apparently want. Admittedly this is an xc race bike that missed the point and was built too heavy to be a good race bike - but its stiff enough to ride hard and with a 12.5" BB corners pretty insanely well!
After riding a mates Trek Fuel I was pretty much blown away and have been thinking about a new ride ever since - they are an awesome little bike that with the right pilot can do pretty much anything. I can see why a DHer would like a Remedy but I believe most DHers can get away with less and be faster almost everywhere.
Agreed completely, I think that "bike overlap" is something that should be avoided if at all possible unless as you said your "xc" is more or less just fire road climbs and really hairy tech descents. I've seen some good riders rail some technical trails on bikes that would make some people on here cringe (geo, build, travel) .
I got a test ride in today and discussed some things more with Trek, I'm really starting to narrow down my choices. The Remedy I tested seems like it has too much overlap. It really doesn't feel that far off from my SX Trail, which is a feel I'm trying to get away from. It is also only sold as a frame only in the carbon format, no exceptions, and that frame retails for $3200, which leaves things pretty freaking expensive even after a discount. I honestly had more fun ripping around on the Fuel that I tried out, but now I'm itching to test a Stumpjumper.
I completely agree with what weedkilla said, especially after learning to ride aggressively on a hardtail. Sometimes I sincerely miss riding my hardtail because it was so much fun to whip around on flowy trails. And when the going got rough, I got bounced around, but it developed my line choice and made me a faster rider once I jumped on a full suspension bike. One of the best riding days I had in recent memory was riding my friend's old 4" Turner. The whole bike was beat and had been retired to being his backup bike, but it made trails where I live a thousand times more fun.
I completely agree with what weedkilla said, especially after learning to ride aggressively on a hardtail. Sometimes I sincerely miss riding my hardtail because it was so much fun to whip around on flowy trails. And when the going got rough, I got bounced around, but it developed my line choice and made me a faster rider once I jumped on a full suspension bike. One of the best riding days I had in recent memory was riding my friend's old 4" Turner. The whole bike was beat and had been retired to being his backup bike, but it made trails where I live a thousand times more fun.
well put weedkilla...
exactly why i like my bike, i can climb with my superfly 100 29er xc racer buddies, and decend with my nomad all mountain buddies.
exactly why i like my bike, i can climb with my superfly 100 29er xc racer buddies, and decend with my nomad all mountain buddies.
has anybody mentioned the banshee spitfire? if yes, missed it. sorry.
I'm on a Fisher Roscoe II. It has some nice features, but it also has some drawbacks.
It is light for a 140mm trail bike. Mine was 30lbs right out of the box. It pedals great and the ABP works well. I'm not sure if the Full Floater of a Trek would make much of a difference. The rear "special" two-chamber air shock has worked very nicely so far. It feels very neutral and natural. I have little to complain about with the parts choice, and I'm impressed with the wheelset's performance so far. I went with the mid-priced Roscoe II because it was on a blow-out demo-bike pricing. I'm not sure the full-retail price would have been worth it in my eyes to upgrade over the low-end Roscoe.
Here's what bugs me and what I changed:
The longer stem isn't my style, so I went for a 50mm stem.
The stock pedals weren't my style, so I went to a set of flats.
I like wide bars, and want a slightly longer one than the OEM bar (Deity Topsoil please).
The stock tires are crap. They roll easy and pedal fine on mellow stuff, but give no confidence in corners. I went to the Schwalbe Wicked Will rear and Muddy Mary front and only added half a pound, and the tread pattern and compound slow my pedaling. However, I'm much more comfortable charging hard through the chunder, and leaning in the corners. I'd probably look for something less aggressive for my next tire set to get back some of the pedaling ability.
The fork isn't bad, but I'm not in love with it. The TALAS feature seems like it would be more useful if I did more XC hill climbing. I find that I like the fork at full 140mm for most conditions, even climbs. Also, the fork is flexy in the gnar. I'm 180lbs and not a smooth rider, and while the 15mm axle is a big upgrade over the 9mm QR, I would like a stiffer fork (and a few more mm of travel) in the nasty stuff.
The head angle could be a touch slacker for my taste.
There are times I'd like to have a chain guide.
The SLX chainrings seem to be wearing fast, but I did buy a demo bike.
The Avid Elixr R brakes do squeal from time to time, but they feel great and work well.
Overall, I'd say that if you are looking for a more pedal friendly bike than a mini-DH bike, I'd say it is a good choice. It is a bit meaner than the Fuel, though not as pig-ish as the Scratch (which I wonder if I should have gone with). The new Remedy models seem to be closer to the Roscoe than the older ones, which were a bit burlier. I also looked at the Ibis Mojo. The parts specs on those change up quite a bit, which has much to do with the pricing and on-trail feel. The ones I tried had horrible shock setup and the suspension felt awful, but that is something that could be fixed. They are a few pounds lighter than the Roscoe, and from what Lopes does on them, they appear to be able to handle plenty of abuse.
If you are looking to do more DH-ish runs, I'd consider the Scratch or the Ibis Mojo HD. If you are looking to pedal more, then I'd lean towards a Roscoe/Remedy/Mojo.
The Roscoe went up and down this buffness like a dream.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PS_G1B7R4ayBTFZniCwpUWkGL_GqNycpMNSCNVyUDnE?feat=directlink
I could climb most of this, but had a hard time flowing down it at speed... I think the suspension was a outgunned, but I also didn't know the trail well enough to charge it either.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FXBiTVGKdPwKgK6ysmAXTGkGL_GqNycpMNSCNVyUDnE?feat=directlink
It is light for a 140mm trail bike. Mine was 30lbs right out of the box. It pedals great and the ABP works well. I'm not sure if the Full Floater of a Trek would make much of a difference. The rear "special" two-chamber air shock has worked very nicely so far. It feels very neutral and natural. I have little to complain about with the parts choice, and I'm impressed with the wheelset's performance so far. I went with the mid-priced Roscoe II because it was on a blow-out demo-bike pricing. I'm not sure the full-retail price would have been worth it in my eyes to upgrade over the low-end Roscoe.
Here's what bugs me and what I changed:
The longer stem isn't my style, so I went for a 50mm stem.
The stock pedals weren't my style, so I went to a set of flats.
I like wide bars, and want a slightly longer one than the OEM bar (Deity Topsoil please).
The stock tires are crap. They roll easy and pedal fine on mellow stuff, but give no confidence in corners. I went to the Schwalbe Wicked Will rear and Muddy Mary front and only added half a pound, and the tread pattern and compound slow my pedaling. However, I'm much more comfortable charging hard through the chunder, and leaning in the corners. I'd probably look for something less aggressive for my next tire set to get back some of the pedaling ability.
The fork isn't bad, but I'm not in love with it. The TALAS feature seems like it would be more useful if I did more XC hill climbing. I find that I like the fork at full 140mm for most conditions, even climbs. Also, the fork is flexy in the gnar. I'm 180lbs and not a smooth rider, and while the 15mm axle is a big upgrade over the 9mm QR, I would like a stiffer fork (and a few more mm of travel) in the nasty stuff.
The head angle could be a touch slacker for my taste.
There are times I'd like to have a chain guide.
The SLX chainrings seem to be wearing fast, but I did buy a demo bike.
The Avid Elixr R brakes do squeal from time to time, but they feel great and work well.
Overall, I'd say that if you are looking for a more pedal friendly bike than a mini-DH bike, I'd say it is a good choice. It is a bit meaner than the Fuel, though not as pig-ish as the Scratch (which I wonder if I should have gone with). The new Remedy models seem to be closer to the Roscoe than the older ones, which were a bit burlier. I also looked at the Ibis Mojo. The parts specs on those change up quite a bit, which has much to do with the pricing and on-trail feel. The ones I tried had horrible shock setup and the suspension felt awful, but that is something that could be fixed. They are a few pounds lighter than the Roscoe, and from what Lopes does on them, they appear to be able to handle plenty of abuse.
If you are looking to do more DH-ish runs, I'd consider the Scratch or the Ibis Mojo HD. If you are looking to pedal more, then I'd lean towards a Roscoe/Remedy/Mojo.
The Roscoe went up and down this buffness like a dream.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PS_G1B7R4ayBTFZniCwpUWkGL_GqNycpMNSCNVyUDnE?feat=directlink
I could climb most of this, but had a hard time flowing down it at speed... I think the suspension was a outgunned, but I also didn't know the trail well enough to charge it either.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FXBiTVGKdPwKgK6ysmAXTGkGL_GqNycpMNSCNVyUDnE?feat=directlink
Yes but its a very good choice. Especialy with the 2 geo options it has.
Agreed, this is a dope little rig, but it isn't on the OP's list of options.
Im pretty sure comparing its msrp and the one of the remedy carbon frame - even withouth a discount it will be cheaper
Im pretty sure comparing its msrp and the one of the remedy carbon frame - even withouth a discount it will be cheaper
Someone has a barely ridden full bike listed up here for $2600 CDN, size large. I'm tempted but my Remedy is too good to chance the change. Nice looking bike though.
new news from today: more test riding confirmed that both the spec stumpy and enduro ride far better (imo) than the remedy and fuel ex. i had much higher expectations for the remedy, and while it was alright, it didn't have the composure of the specialized rigs. for skeptics, i did take a lot of time to set up the suspension. i'm super impressed with how the newer specialized rigs handle square edged bumps, i think its safe to say that both of the bikes i rode handled them far better than my current sx trail.
i hope to talk to banshee about the spitfire, i've heard nothing but awesome things from friends that have ridden them.
i hope to talk to banshee about the spitfire, i've heard nothing but awesome things from friends that have ridden them.
Did the Stumpy you rode have the brain? I'm interested to here impressions on this gen FSR with/without brain.
Willing to bet if you rode my Remedy you would be saying different. The specs Trek has put together for the Remedy this year are not to par as the past. They really need to come out with a Remedy-X for us guys that like a little stronger build.
O'well, just my 2 cents. Anyone would be happy with one of all the bikes your looking at. Good luck and hope you really get what you want.
Cecil
^i'll bet that if i rode your remedy i'd be saying differently also, it's looks sick. the spec just wasn't awesome and the suspension feel was a little lackluster. i think that if i dropped a bunch of coin on upgrading a remedy i could make it cool, but in the end that would require swapping nearly every part on the bike. i just think specialized has put a better package together with both the stumpy and enduro.
my 2011 specialized pitch with some added parts like the Lyric and wider bars. Friends iphone has it at ~66* HA and measured the BB at 13.4". Weight is 30.5, waiting on a command post so it will jump up to 31 even but it feels like a rocket ship compared to the 6point it is replacing. Did a quick loop yesterday that involves 3 steep climbs and a decently long downhill, i really notice the shorter stays and longer tt more than anything else. Not a huge fan of the Monster Energy inspired colors but oh well.
What was the original fork on that? Sektor if I remember correctly...
Looks like it will be a blast to ride!
Looks like it will be a blast to ride!
yep, came with a sektor. And this is a blast to ride, accelerates so quickly. Can't wait to get some more saddle time on this.
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Nice bike. I have an 08 Pitch Pro with a Lyrik up front as well. Also upgraded the rear shock to the 2010 RP23 w/boost valve and high volume canister, which really brought the bike to life. What rear shock did they put on the 2011?my 2011 specialized pitch with some added parts like the Lyric and wider bars. Friends iphone has it at ~66* HA and measured the BB at 13.4". Weight is 30.5, waiting on a command post so it will jump up to 31 even but it feels like a rocket ship compared to the 6point it is replacing. Did a quick loop yesterday that involves 3 steep climbs and a decently long downhill, i really notice the shorter stays and longer tt more than anything else. Not a huge fan of the Monster Energy inspired colors but oh well.
it comes with a float rp2, not sure it's going to stay but I don't know anything about the shock but it seemed ok. Apparently the HV body is now standard on the shock.
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The Pitch Pro is a great bike at a really great price.