[kidwoo]

Two little black towers.......some sensors that riders put on their bikes (I think).

It was in the hundreds for a kit from what I remember.

Anybody know what I'm talking about? I can't remember the name.


Or tell me about anything else/better if it's out there.

Thanks!


edit: was it Freelap? Those watches are too expensive for ten of them.

Is there anything else out there?

 

[LMC]

It was freelap, and yes its expensive...

 

[UiUiUiUi]

http://www.freelaptrackandfield.com/products/mtb-junior.php

this?

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah that's it. Not real feasible for multiple riders to keep it under a grand.

Why doesn't anyone make some towers that you can sync, run one down the hill, and then log 10 sensor passes?

Doesn't seem like it would be that hard.

 

[Lelandjt]

Whats wrong with the swimmer's finger-stopwatch things that everyone in CO puts on their handlebar? Yeah I have to click the button as I cross the line but no big deal. Sportcount, about $25.

 

[iRider]

Reverse Watchdog sounds like what you are after. There was a big hype about it but it got pretty quite since.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Watchdog-Eurobike-2010.html

 

[kidwoo]

Whats wrong with the swimmer's finger-stopwatch things that everyone in CO puts on their handlebar? Yeah I have to click the button as I cross the line but no big deal. Sportcount, about $25.

The idea is independent timing......this for a race with multiple participants. Relying on everyone to hit their own stopwatch at the finish kind of defeats the purpose.

Reverse Watchdog sounds like what you are after. There was a big hype about it but it got pretty quite since.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Watchdog-Eurobike-2010.html

That looks like is still requires a 100+ dollar watch for each person though?

 

[Freeridin']

Two synced watches and a rider dropping every five minutes....done.

 

[kidwoo]

Two synced watches and a rider dropping every five minutes....done.

Yeah.....that's the way we've been doing it. We need tighter timing. Fo realz

 

[iRider]

That looks like is still requires a 100+ dollar watch for each person though?

Nope, you can run it with one watch only as long as no one is breaking the beam while you are timing the rider on course.

 

[kidwoo]

What's the name of the system? I don't even see it on their site.

 

[MMike]

1 mississippi, 2 mississippi, 3 mississippi.......

 

[kidwoo]

Canadians learn mississippi?

Alabamans can't even spell that.

 

[bizutch]

http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/us_eng/Websites/home

Self powered chip timing identical to what is used on the World Cup. But the actual loop/box to record data is ridiculously expensive. The chips $90 or so each. Road racing clubs make their money back easy. It would take a high count DH club membership to make it worthwhile, but it would be incredible.

Your other option is wireless photocells from a bunch of different carriers. Each rider punches their number in at the top. If a rider gets passed though, you gotta know how to change the sequence at the bottom.

 

[iRider]

What's the name of the system? I don't even see it on their site.

You are right. If you use the search function you can pull it up but it says 'currently not available'. Bummer, I was interested in one myself.

 

[HardtailHack]

This seems too cheap to work, you'd have to buy ten beacons and work out how to strap them to the bikes at the right height.

Still it would only be $145 for ten beacons and the timer, you'd still have to sync with a stopwatch so you can do your starts properly but if it works it's a bargain.

 

[Huck Banzai]

Wasnt Diablo Freeride/Terralogic/Shawn Orecchio the US distribution for Freelap anyway?

That could easily explain some things if so.

 

[mattmatt86]

Wasnt Diablo Freeride/Terralogic/Shawn Orecchio the US distribution for Freelap anyway?

That could easily explain some things if so.

Yea. You could rent a sensor thingy and time yourself on certain trails at diablo.

 

[Beast]

Strava is free.










hahaha

 

[go-ride.com]

We sell the Freelap system at GO-RIDE.com
FREELAP MTB SYSTEM

 

[kidwoo]

We sell the Freelap system at GO-RIDE.com
FREELAP MTB SYSTEM

You do? Your site is one of the first places I looked.

Hows about a bulk discount on watches?

Strava is free.

I hit 4000 mph with strava once. I guess I shouldn't complain about its accuracy.

 

[bizutch]

You do? Your site is one of the first places I looked.

Hows about a bulk discount on watches?






I hit 4000 mph with strava once. I guess I shouldn't complain about its accuracy.

McFly?

 

[IH8Rice]

Wasnt Diablo Freeride/Terralogic/Shawn Orecchio the US distribution for Freelap anyway?

That could easily explain some things if so.

yep. as well as BOS too....and we all know how both of those turned out

 

[shirk007]

RFID timing.

Reverse hack it. I am sure the guys selling the "systems" as event timing are charging a big mark-up. It's all just industrial equipment re-purposed for events.

Figure out the de-coders and readers and find them from an industrial supply place way cheaper. Feed data into a laptop and yer done.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Chip timing sucks.
Ask anyone who scores road races, tri stuff or anything else where they normally get used.
The times are rarely accurate, sometimes the chips don't register at all.
The timing companies that use it almost always end up using hand-calculated times.
Expensive crap. Avoid.

 

[kidwoo]

Chip timing sucks.
Ask anyone who scores road races, tri stuff or anything else where they normally get used.
The times are rarely accurate, sometimes the chips don't register at all.
The timing companies that use it almost always end up using hand-calculated times.
Expensive crap. Avoid.

Good to know. I was talking to a buddy who knows electronics way better than I trying to come up with something using those.

 

[bizutch]

Yeah it must reaaly suck.
World Cup DH, Motocross Nationals, TdF, NASCAR....all use chips, Wait til they find out they've been duped.

Functional chip timing costs a LOT. $100 to own your own chip and thousands for the boxes is what makes them not cost effective for small groups. But for big time productions, chips kill it!


Pricing the system will make a venture capitalist stutter.
http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/us_eng/Websites/B2B/cycle/systems

 

[toodles]

Good to know. I was talking to a buddy who knows electronics way better than I trying to come up with something using those.

If you don't mind using lasers/photocells, its not "that" hard to build your own timing system. I made one a couple of years ago using an Allen-Bradley PLC, combined with a photocell to provide lap timing for a pump track showdown. The timing system feed the information to a laptop which displayed the laptimes using downloadable FreHMI software.

How handy is your buddy with electronics? What is the length of the track you want to set the timing up on? Fixed wiring a gate sensor is the simplest method, but its possible to do wirelessly as well. Is there power available or do you need a battery powered system.

Obviously, the cheaper and simpler the solution the better, so its probably best not taking advice from a

 

[Udi]

I made one a couple of years ago using an Allen-Bradley PLC, combined with a photocell to provide lap timing for a pump track showdown.

That was awesome. And the winner of the showdown was...

 

[toodles]

That was awesome. And the winner of the showdown was...

Some mental kid who kept doing laps for an hour to beat the time while everyone else had beers.

 

[Udi]

So worth it.

 

[HardtailHack]

If you are really cheap you can steal a door sensor strip from a bus and wire it in place of a stopwatch split button, cheap and pretty easy to do.

 

[kidwoo]

If you don't mind using lasers/photocells, its not "that" hard to build your own timing system. I made one a couple of years ago using an Allen-Bradley PLC, combined with a photocell to provide lap timing for a pump track showdown. The timing system feed the information to a laptop which displayed the laptimes using downloadable FreHMI software.

I don't know about photo cells. "Dude you didn't go that fast, that was a squirrel running in front of the thing".

Hadn't thought about a fixed gate sensor. That's not a bad idea. Lugging out some batteries or a laptop wouldn't be the end of the world.

My buddy is plenty capable it's more just a matter of time. He programs for a living and messes around with cheeseboards for fun. I've been learning arduinos lately for some camera gear stuff......this just doesn't seem like it should be that complicated.


Length of courses are up to around 7 miles or so.

Synched towers with fixed gates sounds like a really good idea. Just gotta remind everybody to hit the trip.

 

[profro]

RFID timing.

Reverse hack it. I am sure the guys selling the "systems" as event timing are charging a big mark-up. It's all just industrial equipment re-purposed for events.

Figure out the de-coders and readers and find them from an industrial supply place way cheaper. Feed data into a laptop and yer done.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I bet I could write a program to read RFID tags with a USBreader in a few minutes. Not sure what a simple reader and tags cost?????

Furthermore using some garage door safety beam lights to start and stop the timing would be simple. A PC at the top to record the start time and a PC at the bottom to record stop time the subtract. You could even ditch the start setup and go on synchronized clock start.

Pretty easy. They make USB daq devices for cheap. I beat I could find one around here and send it to you.

 

[profro]

Chip timing sucks.
Ask anyone who scores road races, tri stuff or anything else where they normally get used.
The times are rarely accurate, sometimes the chips don't register at all.
The timing companies that use it almost always end up using hand-calculated times.
Expensive crap. Avoid.

You are full of bad information.

Motorcycle racing uses this exclusively and it works pretty damn well.

Check out Mototally

Some events use your transponder for resistration. The last race I did I just walked through the reader and it picked up my transponder, which was in my pocket. All my info popped up and it read my information over 15 times as I walked through the reader.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Yeah it must reaaly suck.
World Cup DH, Motocross Nationals, TdF, NASCAR....all use chips, Wait til they find out they've been duped.

Functional chip timing costs a LOT. $100 to own your own chip and thousands for the boxes is what makes them not cost effective for small groups. But for big time productions, chips kill it!


Pricing the system will make a venture capitalist stutter.
http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/us_eng/Websites/B2B/cycle/systems

I have two friends that score bike races full time.
They hate the damn things. The promoters don't trust the chips enough(after innumerable complaints about missing and inaccurate times after every race) to rely solely on them without fear of being strangled by competitors so they go through the additional expense of hiring a professional timing company to time the race and score all of the close finishes manually using;

1. A clock
2. A start list
3. Eyeballs and common sense.
4. Beam timing for events where accuracy is paramount.
4. A dual DVR and camera system for scoring mass-start events.

The chip times are never the results that are certified by UCI or USAC officials.

I bet that if you look closely you'll see that none of the organisations you listed above actually use the chips to determine final placings or official split times either(the above post not withstanding).

As another personal anecdote my mom does 30+ foot races a year and a handful of duathalons(not bad for a 70 year old)and I can't recall her ever having a chipped time that matched up closely with the splits from her heart rate monitor/GPS/guy yelling out splits at the turnaround.

Chips are popular as a sort of "customer relations management tool" to make people in mass-participation events feel like the promoter actually cares about them but not an OK way to score or time events where precision or accuracy are needed. Let's be honest, people who put on huge participant events don't give a damn about providing complete and proper results and the UCI just likes to hand out money to Dutch companies they're in bed with.

I'm guessing that a smart electronics-savvy geek could make something that works better for a few hundred dollars though...

 

[kidwoo]

I'm not really clear on how chips COULDN'T be accurate. It seems like the only room for error is having too wide an angle of register. As long as you can keep the sensor beam linear, narrow and perpendicular, all it's doing is registering a pass. The rest is up to your timing system itself.........the chip is just acting as a trip just like any other method. I mean even if it trips right before or right after the actual pass, it's not going to be THAT far off.

What am I missing?


And on that note, anyone want to help me steal some RFID security gates from wal mart?

 

[dan-o]

I'm not really clear on how chips COULDN'T be accurate.

What am I missing?

It's a mega-corporate conspiracy, man. Open your EYES.

 

[profro]

I'm not really clear on how chips COULDN'T be accurate.

Its just like anything else, poor execution. Just because a Yugo sucks as a car doesn't mean all cars suck.

 

[kidwoo]

Like I said though, it's just a method of providing a trip right? It either trips or it doesn't. It's no different than barging through a plastic bar bolted to a lever at the beginning of a ski racing gate right? The details of timing precision have nothing to do with the chip/sensor system. right?



Edit: hey profro, let's do this thing. You're a rider and the buddy I wanted to do this with here isn't. I've got some ideas for a really simple system but I'd be lost on doing the firmware for it. And I don't even 'race™' any more. This is obviously something people want and doesn't really exist in a reasonably inexpensive package. Even just for beer league/self training stuff, you could make some money.