[Inclag]

There is an easy solution to this problem.......Buy a FOES product! Problem solved.

The one bike louder than an M1 or M3 :evil:

 

[Jeremy R]

The one bike louder than an M1 or M3 :evil:

Yeah, but it is not loud for long.


















It gets real quiet after the headtube snaps off. :devil:

 

[ChrisKring]

Solution: use a 27.2mm post and a production seatpost shim. They are avalable in just about every size. Then the shim will have a tight fit in the top 4" and the post will clear the weld burn through that your having the problem with.

My VP Free has no issues with full seat post range of adjustment. My V10 mono frame even had nearly perfectly faced head tube and bottom brackets.

The QC checking method is a go/no-go pin. This would be a go pin at MMC (largest seatpost size tolerance). It's actually pretty simple. I design car parts and every car OEM would have me living in there plant if we were shipping in parts out of spec that didn't go together.

 

[Kornphlake]

Solution: use a 27.2mm post and a production seatpost shim. They are avalable in just about every size. Then the shim will have a tight fit in the top 4" and the post will clear the weld burn through that your having the problem with.

My VP Free has no issues with full seat post range of adjustment. My V10 mono frame even had nearly perfectly faced head tube and bottom brackets.

The QC checking method is a go/no-go pin. This would be a go pin at MMC (largest seatpost size tolerance). It's actually pretty simple. I design car parts and every car OEM would have me living in there plant if we were shipping in parts out of spec that didn't go together.

I see 3 different issues that have been brought up here, 1 is straightforward, 2 are not.

First of all the issue of seat post insertion, that is a workmanship issue, QC could have caught it or missed it and I'd just write it off as an oops. Intense claiming that the frame was designed that way is BS, the seat tube is designed to accept a standard sized seat post, it has an industry standard diameter and tolerance. If they got a glob of weld spatter in the seat post and didn't clean it out it's their problem.

The second issue is frame prep, facing/reaming the head tube and facing/chasing the BB is something that the manufacturer "should" be equipped to do, however many of the big name brand bikes, especially the low budget models don't do a spectacular job of doing this type of work. Holding manufacturers more or less responsible for frame prep depending on the size of the price tag is reasonable, but it's not something that a manufacturer should be obligated to do if the majority of shops already expect to have to ream, face and chase every frame.

Finally frame alignment, while I agree an expensive frame should be straight I'm not the engineer who designed the M1. If I were I'd probabally design it differently so that it could be assembled without warping, however Intense designed what they designed and set certain tolerances that were reasonable. It's a common QC practice to build some quantity of product, test them all and set a tolerance range from the results such that the highest and lowest 2 or 3 parts are rejected. Unfortunately for many parts the process controlls the tolerance rather than the other way around. This is especially true for criteria that the customer may not be able to judge himself, either because the customer won't have a standard to compare against (for example how shiny something is) or because the tools to make appropriate measurements aren't household tools (for example a bore gage.) Intense might spec really loose tolerances because it's the best their process can handle and they've realized that the customer demands that particular process if they want to sell bikes.

 

[dexter]

i will never rock an intense. buddy got one 5 years ago when i got my first dh9 from rpm. it came fully prepped from the factory. his m1 came crooked and needed to be fully faced. after 4 hours of work it was better but i had been out riding. he then went and bought a tazer and has killed 4+ swing arms and 2 main frames and hes a smooth rider. his m1 has had more problems than a sexually molested child. all of my yeti's (4 dh9's, prototype dj, production dj, 575, kokopelli, 4x and arc) have all came ready to rck out of the box same with my sinister r9,dna and splinter mxs all perfect out of the box

 

[kidwoo]

Solution: use a 27.2mm post and a production seatpost shim. They are avalable in just about every size. Then the shim will have a tight fit in the top 4" and the post will clear the weld burn through that your having the problem with.
.

That's a really REALLY good idea.

I guess you just have to check to make sure the smaller post goes past whatever the restriction is.

 

[meatboot]

First thing, is the Uzzi does have an uninterrupted seat tube, as opposed to their old "seat mast" design. It doesn't say how far down you can stick your post, though...

Uh, I have a law degree and even don't think I could maintain that position with a straight face. I guess you didn't bother to read the rest of my post either.

Using the quotation marks usually negates the need mention them verbally.....

The redundancy was ironical -- as is that deliberate misspelling. And, just for your reference, there are only three periods in an ellipse, with an additional period when you end a sentence with them. Moreover, unless your computer is way different than mine I didn't mention anything verbally. :nuts:

Solution: use a 27.2mm post and a production seatpost shim. They are avalable in just about every size. Then the shim will have a tight fit in the top 4" and the post will clear the weld burn through that your having the problem with.

That's one work around. I'm not usually of the "it cost XXXX dollars, it should be perfect" school, but I don't think I should have to use a quick fix like that on a frame this expensive. Plus, I already had a 31.6 post. Also, I don't think it's a burn through problem: looking down the tube you can see a hard line in the area where the post stops sinking, which leads me to believe they simply didn't ream far enough down. My guess is that they use a method like your go/no go pin, but the pin isn't 330mm long.

My VP Free has no issues with full seat post range of adjustment.

Yeah, except for that kink by the BB that prevents you (or me at least) from getting fully seatpost extension.

My V10 mono frame even had nearly perfectly faced head tube and bottom brackets.

Just for the record, the HT and BB shell on my bike were factory faced. That didn't stop me for doing it again myself though, nor would it with any manufacturer's bike. Unprepped bikes don't really bother me (road frames in the same quality/price range routinely come completely unfaced or chased, with paint all over the place). Nor does small alignment problems. Intense's QC might not be the best, but it certainly isn't the worst in the industry. I could tell you horror stories, like $7000 frames (Ti tandem with S&S couplers) that were off by inches. And don't get me started on Ellsworth (although I know that's whole 'nother ball of wax). My Uzzi is straight (I measured) and my M1 was perfect. That being said, the alignment issue discussed previously was unacceptable, but it got resolved didn't it?

Not trying to pick on you Chris, just using your post to frame some of the issues.

 

[Dusty Bottoms]

Thank GOD I bought a Santa Cruz. They ream down the seattube a full 10.5 inches on XL frames. With a 4" minimum seatpost insertion, I could NOT IMAGINE only dropping my seat 2 inches and reaching the bottom on that Intense frame.

Im SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy I didn't wait for that frame.

 

[sanjuro]

Uh, I have a law degree and even don't think I could maintain that position with a straight face. I guess you didn't bother to read the rest of my post either.

Well, I have now. I see promises were made but not kept, but since you were so nice about it, good luck with your POS. Should have bought a [insert bike here].

 

[trailhacker]

.....blah.......blah........ellipse.............blah.........

Touche' - but you and my old english teach can both kiss me arse!

Back on topic, maybe this was metioned and/or already covered, but is it possible that the frame that only allows the seatpost X amount down is the good frame and the frame that allows full insertion (dirty, dirty ) is actually the bad frame? The CS rep from intense told you that they are designed to only go down X" right?

Nothing for nothing, but I've owned 2 M1's ('00 and '03) and had none of the previuosly mentioned problems. I did have almost every part on the first frame warrantied except he seatstay and link, but they did warranty them and I got 3 years out of that frame and my friends wife is still riding it today. And the '03 is my race bike this year. The warranty's weren't horror stories either, just age realted stress I feel. There were no catastrophic failures, just found cracks developing on the parts.
Not trying to defend them, but our whole team of 6-8 riders in 2000 all rode M1's and they had similar experiences. Same thing with the few other Intense frames I have been around.
Not doubting what anybody else is saying, but when people say things like I'll never ride brand X because I've heard this, to each there own I guess?

 

[meatboot]

Well, I have now. I see promises were made but not kept, but since you were so nice about it, good luck with your POS. Should have bought a [insert bike here].

Sorry I hurt your feelings, but I wasn't trying to be mean.

It bears repeating that other the seat tube issue I am extremely happy with the bike. I'm more upset about the way the situation was handled than with a problem that can be solved with a $15 shim or $35 ream job. I did a lot of bike testing before throwing down my money and the Uzzi has not let me down in terms of performance.

 

[meatboot]

Back on topic, maybe this was metioned and/or already covered, but is it possible that the frame that only allows the seatpost X amount down is the good frame and the frame that allows full insertion (dirty, dirty ) is actually the bad frame? The CS rep from intense told you that they are designed to only go down X" right?

I asked Nick before reaming it and he said "there is no structural reason that the seat tube isn't fully reamed" and followed with the comment that he didn't see why you would need more seat post adjustment. I was a little flabbergasted, to say the least.

My prior experience with Intense jibs with yours. In 3 seasons of racing, I had one issue, with the ISCG tabs (which I agree were a little shady, just being tacked on). I told them I had a race and they sent me a new front end post haste, rather than having me send it in for repair.

 

[ILikeFood]

Well my seatpost issue has since been resolved...and my BB and headtube were both ready to roll out of the box. My alignment seems solid, and I'm happy as hell with the bike.

-f00d

 

[ChrisKring]

Not trying to pick on you Chris, just using your post to frame some of the issues.

No problem. I totally agree with you though that there is no reason that a frame should not be prep'd from the factory. For a large frame, I would set up the the reamer to allow for a 410mm seatpost to be fully lowered. That would allow for 0-12" of exposed seat post.

The issue that I have with the factory not preping frames is that most bike shops have crappy cutting tools. They are worn out and never get sharpened. Heck, there are only a couple of shops around here that even have a head tube reamer/facer or a bottom bracket tap. It's just hard for most of them to justify $2,000+ in tools to prep 3-4 frames a year when most people buy completely assembled bikes.

On the topic of tolerancing and design. The best way to design a product is to design with your "capable" processing tolerance accounted for in the design though tolerance stack studies. A seat tube / seat post is easy. There are 4 components:
1) post diameter
2) post straightness
3) seat tube diameter (post reaming if neccessary)
4) seat tube straightness (post reaming if neccessary)

You really don't want to design with processing requirements (tolerances) outside of the capablity of the process. That leads to sorting, scraping and rework. Therefore, expensive.

And my work around is courtesy of Giant. They do that on the AC frames to avoid having to ream the seat tube. Pull out the shim and you will see what I am refering to. Nasty weld burn through and tube warp. That said, they designed to meet a cost and quality target that did not need secondary rework processes such as reaming. That said, a larger diameter seat post is significantly stronger while maintaining the same mass.

"Light, strong, inexpensive, pick 2" Keith Bontrager 1980 something

 

[BadFastard]

I hate to hear that there are a few issues with your frame, but It makes me sick how a bunch of people here jump the band wagon and go and slash a company not even knowing what they're talking about.
I have owned 4 intenses now. None had any issue whatsoever. straight as an arrow and no haircrack at all. I keep buying them because I feel confident about the high standard of quality. I know my next bike will be an intense again.
I know of about 20 other intenses (friends and riders I met) Only one guy broke an M1 chainstay, but then again he weighs 140 kilos (+/- 290 pounds)
Not a single model was misaligned.

Before intense was available here in belgium, Foes was the only true DH bike available. At some point there were 10 frames running.
ALL of them broke. that's a 100% to you sir. Mine broke 3 times. And we were not nearly riding as hard as we do now.
At some point, mine came back from a warranty job (swingarm broke for the 2nd time) it was 4 CM misaligned. Thats about 1.75", or roughly the size of an xc racing tire.

I met a guy with an Orange, broken on 7 different places, without having it crashed.

One other mate of mine had a GT DHi. He broke it 3 times in 3 weeks. Every single rider on GT DHi broke his frame multiple times. My mate replaced it with an M1 3 years ago and has never had any problem anymore.

Before we all sing praise on Giant and Santa cruz: are we not forgetting the dreadful play in the rear end due to bolts loosening and bad fitting bearings?
I've seen a SC breaking the head tube clear off.

A mate is now running his Third replacement Specialized frame. Every half year he's through with a frame.
I've seen broken Kona's, Nicolai's.... I can go on till the cows come home.

What's my point? Problems happen, but stop slagging one specific make. We're sportsmen here, so let's play a fair game and admit it happens everywhere.

 

[syadasti]

Way to pour out the cognitive dissonance there BadFastard and ignore the reality of actual Intense owner with unacceptable problems.

You see in the real world when companies do a **** job they go out of business. Like GM and US automotive industry in general. Consumers aren't dumb. Intense better clean up their act or go the way of the Dodo (for GM it was too little, too late)...

 

[BUCKET]

Yeah, but it is not loud for long.

It gets real quiet after the headtube snaps off. :devil:

Interesting .... I have never heard of that happening before. I call BULL****!!!!!!!!!

As far as them being loud, the earlier generations did have some piviot noise, but the newer ones seem to be a lot quiter. Besides, it's like loud pipes on a 2 stroker, they save lives. The loud bike is just letting the slower rider on a M3 know that a faster rider on a FOES is about to pass him or her.

 

[meatboot]

Interesting .... I have never heard of that happening before. I call BULL****!!!!!!!!!

Check out the Chain Reaction series -- I think the third one.

Everything breaks.

In his defense, I think that was BadFastard's only point.

 

[BadFastard]

Way to pour out the cognitive dissonance there BadFastard and ignore the reality of actual Intense owner with unacceptable problems.

You see in the real world when companies do a **** job they go out of business. Like GM and US automotive industry in general. Consumers aren't dumb. Intense better clean up their act or go the way of the Dodo (for GM it was too little, too late)...

You're perfectly right but You missed my point.
I do recognize the issue that these guys have. I'm not saying they don', I'm saying that so many companies have (had) similar complaints. So let's cut the crap, and play a fair game. Sure intense has issues, so do Foes, specialized, GT, Kona, Santa Cruz, Giant, Cannondale, Iron Horse, Norco.... I can go on. Getting outta business is thus a threat to a lot of companies out there. Or is it? All but 1 foes I know have broken and still they're in business....

Let's just stick to the ideas to address this seat tube thingy here and stop the e-slashing.

 

[Fonzie18]

Mmmmmm, Intense

I had no problems building mine. Seatpost went in all the way, Headset faced/reamed, BB was perfectly threaded/faced, and in smooth High speed situations the frame feels much more "aligned" than all my previous bikes. You guys can bitch all ya want, I'm gonna go ride my bike...

 

[sanjuro]

Sorry I hurt your feelings, but I wasn't trying to be mean.

It bears repeating that other the seat tube issue I am extremely happy with the bike. I'm more upset about the way the situation was handled than with a problem that can be solved with a $15 shim or $35 ream job. I did a lot of bike testing before throwing down my money and the Uzzi has not let me down in terms of performance.

Thats cool. I think this is a missed expectations, which is a customer service issue.

I did enjoy reading about the Giant tolerances and design post.

 

[Lejk]

I've just put my Intense Uzzi VPX toghter and honestly I cannot say that the frame I bought was that shady when it arrived. Compared with my old Bighit this was, as I expected just as fine. The only problem I found was that I hade gotten a 150mm drop-out intsead of the 135mm ordered..

Guess what, I got a new 135mm drop-out and I could keep the 150mm drop-out for free :love:

About the seat tube then.. yes I got to shorten it alot to get is as low as I would have liked... but I cannot see the big issue.. I would have cut it the same lenght any way

Warranty on the other hand.. I know alot of people having trouble with their Giant DH still.. and the guys at Gaint here in sweden are total assholes about it.. Specialized are pretty much the same around where I live, so perhaps Intense just are as the rest.. or?

 

[Spokompton]

All I got to say is this:

I used to put together WalMart bikes. If a crap company can produce a full bike that's straight and allows the seat to go in, and sell it for $80, then why can't a company who's selling $2000 "frames" deliver AT LEAST the same?

It comes down to making money. Intense isn't a charity organization. They want to make maximum money, bottom line! They lose a good amount of money with each frame that's way off if they through it in the trash. Easy solution? Don't through away any frames and deal (or lack there of) with them after the fact if the customer is smart enough to complain!!! Boom, they now make more money.

IF say 10% of thier frames are defective in some way, they could either dump it at the factory or sell it to people. By dumping it off the bat, they instantly lose money on materials and labor by 10%. What happens if they just let that 10% slip by and make it to the consumer? Maybe 50% of those consumers who got a 10% defect frame will notice it and want it fixed or replaced. Now Intense only has to "through away" 5% of thier frames as apposed to 10%, thus they make more money. Theymake even more money after that if they can deny warrenty claims even on brand new bikes!

I wouldn't be surprised if they actually sat down a calculated this and came to the same conclusion I did. Making money is making money!


Those crappy WalMart bikes? Well they produce those cheap and in large volume, so dumping a deffective frame isn't a big deal at all. Thus thier QC can dump them without much consequences on making money. I very rarely saw one that didn't take a seat post or was way too off to use. They are still crappy bikes though, but at least they give you what you pay for.

$2000 shouldn't pay for shoddy quality contol and more work on your part.


I'm sure Intense loves thier system, because if someone actually tries "FIXING" the problem themselves and messes up, they get to deny warranty!!! They make money off another sucker!!!



IMO, go with quality "NEW" small time bike comanies. They often cost less, are better quality, and are usually trying thier best to make a good impression on people. They are hungry to make you happy, period. Sure there's still crappy small times companies too, but you just need to research a little before hand.

One prime example of a new company doing EVERYTHING right, is Transition Bikes. THose guys are super top notch. You know they are a good company when you can call them up and one of the owners answers and is willing to chat with you for as long as it takes for them to instill confidence in buying one of thier frames. On top of that just about every frame they put out is made damn sure to be fully finished and top notch. They realize that having a happy customer raving about it to other bikers is good bussiness. Thier frames sell themselves from happy customers. Intense is the opposite, they rely on advertising to sucker people and don''t put any effort after the fact of making more money.

I know how business works. More often than not, making money is more important to them than making happy loyal customers. After all, it's the American way right? Just look at our auto industry, that explains it all! I could go on and on, but I'll end it there.

 

[AusRottenVirus]

I never realized intense had a QC issue. I have an M1 and have had no problems with it. the only troubles that i have run into is intense no longer makes hangers for them so i had to make one myself. The alignment seems to be spot on. You need to quit whining and go ride your bikes

 

[meatboot]

I'd have a hard time concentrating with this parading around the shop floor.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I hate to hear that there are a few issues with your frame, but It makes me sick how a bunch of people here jump the band wagon and go and slash a company not even knowing what they're talking about.
I have owned 4 intenses now. None had any issue whatsoever. straight as an arrow and no haircrack at all. I keep buying them because I feel confident about the high standard of quality. I know my next bike will be an intense again.
I know of about 20 other intenses (friends and riders I met) Only one guy broke an M1 chainstay, but then again he weighs 140 kilos (+/- 290 pounds)
Not a single model was misaligned.

Before intense was available here in belgium, Foes was the only true DH bike available. At some point there were 10 frames running.
ALL of them broke. that's a 100% to you sir. Mine broke 3 times. And we were not nearly riding as hard as we do now.
At some point, mine came back from a warranty job (swingarm broke for the 2nd time) it was 4 CM misaligned. Thats about 1.75", or roughly the size of an xc racing tire.

I met a guy with an Orange, broken on 7 different places, without having it crashed.

One other mate of mine had a GT DHi. He broke it 3 times in 3 weeks. Every single rider on GT DHi broke his frame multiple times. My mate replaced it with an M1 3 years ago and has never had any problem anymore.

Before we all sing praise on Giant and Santa cruz: are we not forgetting the dreadful play in the rear end due to bolts loosening and bad fitting bearings?
I've seen a SC breaking the head tube clear off.

A mate is now running his Third replacement Specialized frame. Every half year he's through with a frame.
I've seen broken Kona's, Nicolai's.... I can go on till the cows come home.

What's my point? Problems happen, but stop slagging one specific make. We're sportsmen here, so let's play a fair game and admit it happens everywhere.

I think you and your boys need to ride a bit smoother, those numbers seem i a little crazy.

 

[meatboot]

There has been some discussion about how these skills are a lost art. Back in the day, road frames were rarely prepped, and this was a normal task . . .. Frankly, I don't much about building custom DH bikes, but it does sound similar to road prep. Many roadies who receive only framesets often require facing done.

Another possible explanation: Intense thinks they're an Old World road frame shop.

 

[Franky]

haha this is great who'd a thought youd find a thread about displeased intense owners.
I get my uzzi vpx from my lbs and i bought it with 150mm dropouts by mistake . Worked out a swap through my shop and intense to get 135mm dropouts. Intense says no problem they are in stock , send the 150's back. I pay the extra to express them over there as im leaving for BC next friday figuring they are going to ship them standard ground back. my shop gets a call today from intense stating that no they arent in stock and oops they wont be ready for another week. Greeeeaaaatttttttt and on top of that they kindly mentioned that I can pay for the express shipping back since it was definitely not their fault they told me they had em and didnt. Great work intense! thumbs up and this will be the last intense item i own.

 

[partsbara]

haha this is great who'd a thought youd find a thread about displeased intense owners.
I get my uzzi vpx from my lbs and i bought it with 150mm dropouts by mistake . Worked out a swap through my shop and intense to get 135mm dropouts. Intense says no problem they are in stock , send the 150's back. I pay the extra to express them over there as im leaving for BC next friday figuring they are going to ship them standard ground back. my shop gets a call today from intense stating that no they arent in stock and oops they wont be ready for another week. Greeeeaaaatttttttt and on top of that they kindly mentioned that I can pay for the express shipping back since it was definitely not their fault they told me they had em and didnt. Great work intense! thumbs up and this will be the last intense item i own.

lol... sorry about your dilema... hope shiat works itself out...

i loved my m1, but i couldn t afford to keep it... 5 blown shocks, one inverted on itself :mumble: ...

tomac 204 (for how much longer is the ???)... - certified partsbara indestructible / big rich ???????