My buddy and I just received our frames. We heard about the allignment issues that some people had on their frames so we checked it and the frames appear to be ok. However, when we put in our seatposts, the seatpost on my buddy's frame could not go all the way in, while the seatpost on mine goes all the way in. My question is, are the VPX's suppose to have a straight seat tube? It was under the assumption that these frame has a full length seatube (one of the main reason why I went with this frame). He called Intense and the guys at Intense told him that it's only suppose to go in for about 6". I thought that was a ****ty answer and it was just their way of trying to avoid warranty work. I'm happy with my frame but at the same time concern because of Intense's attitude and poor QC on their frames.
VPX quality? (Intense quality going downhill)
- Thread starter PoserNewbie
- Start date
I was gonna get an M3 at the beginning of this season, but opted for a Demo 8 mainly because:
1. They are struggling a bit to fill orders.
2. Their production is pretty much stretched to the limit, and from what I understand, most of the fabrication is done by hand...
With things like that, you might wind up with a few frames that are a bit off - there used to be issues with the M3's monoque getting slightly out of alignment during fab. - but that was sorted out after proto testing was completed...
1. They are struggling a bit to fill orders.
2. Their production is pretty much stretched to the limit, and from what I understand, most of the fabrication is done by hand...
With things like that, you might wind up with a few frames that are a bit off - there used to be issues with the M3's monoque getting slightly out of alignment during fab. - but that was sorted out after proto testing was completed...
Ream it further with a flapper bit. Any decent bike shop should have one if you don't.
This happens with a lot of frames, not just intense.
This happens with a lot of frames, not just intense.
Nope. What the original poster is referring to is not a seat tube that just needs to be cleaned up a bit. It's a freeride frame with a straight seat tube that is only reamed 6" deep. That gives you roughly 2" of adjustment on most seatposts. Ridiculous. There is a lot of material in there that has to come out. My friends VPX took a lot of work to get it properly reamed.kidwoo said:
Exactly, the last thing you want to do on a $2k frame is to do your own finishing/modification on the tubing/frame.
Dogboy said:
You guys were at Pisgah for the monkeyfest right?
Did your friend solve the shock spacer issue that i pointed out?
You're right. However, facing the HT and BB shell is one thing but I think reaming the seattube is a bit much. Anyway, apparently this is not the first one as another guy has the same issue with his frame so I guess you do need to make some modification/cleaning on the frame.
So ream it. I hit every frame I ride with a flapper pretty heavily anyway. I've also gotten some extra range out of just the flapper too.Dogboy said:
But then again....that's intense for ya.
Intense has always had QC issues. When you buy one of their frames...don't expect it to be perfect. IMHO I think that is very bad, especially when you spend that much on a frame. They are well designed bikes, but the manufacturing needs to be looked at closely. If you like to have an intense, by all means spend the money, they are cool bikes, just don't expect it to be as well built as other companies.
Did you ever think that your seatpost is out of spec? I have a Thompson and it does *not* go all the way in.PoserNewbie said:
-f00d
Brand new medium VPX, brand new Thompson. I just thought it was funny that the thread is about Intense Quality Control going to **** when:stoney98 said:
- Intense said it should only go in 6 inches
- One post did go in 6 inches
- The other did not...ergo the frame must be totally out of tolerance. (not the seatpost, er...)
-f00d
I love the "I just spent this much and should NEVER need to touch it". Go build a custom motorcycle for $30,000 and see how much hand fitting must be done. Yet my customers NEVER say "I spent $2000 on a Yaffy tank and they did drill the mounting hole". This kind of thing is common with ALL makers. Remember these are built one at a time and things get missed. Even the best QC won't see that far down inside the frame unles they use a bore gauge or a scope. Neither a standard bike industry equipment. Sometimes S**t happens!!!
Same here. 2 brand new VPX's and 2 brand new Thomson. 1 went in all the way and the other only 6". I can understand that it can happen in any type of production but for this to happen in several frames (not to mention the allignment issues) is a bit dissapointing. I guess you just cant expect perfection these days.ILikeFood said:
Cool, you go ride the #30,000 bike with tons of problems, I'll run the HOnda that rocks right out of the box.dhtahoe said:
Thats pretty sad about Intense. You pay that much for a frame, it should be bloody well perfect. I can see problems mounting a chainguide, or MAYBE bb threads a little crusty, but the seatpost being burred? Sorry man, thats just lazy.
That's retarded and a custom motorcycle is not the same as a production bike. You don't have the same problems with a production Harley that you do with a custom soft tail. If this guy was getting a true custom dh bike than yes, I would say there will be things that need to be worked on to get the frame prepped. But when you buy a completed frame from a company it should be ready to build sans the facing of the headset and bb. Some frame manufactures take the extra step and do the facing themselves, it's a nice touch for a truely completed frame. But with Intense it's always something...an off center rear end, a seat post that isn't straight, alignment is wack etc. The have poor QC, simple. S**t shouldn't happen this often with such an expensive frame. By now people should know that when you buy an intense be prepared because you might actually be getting a wack frame.dhtahoe said:
So did you get the seat tube on the frame cleaned up with some light tooling, or are you just going to rock it with the minimal isertion it allowed? What was the problem, some spot tack or somethig, or a bent tube? Did the post that wouldn't fit in the frame more than 6" slide all the way in on the other frame? I could't tell from your posts if you actually checked the post to see if it was straight.
Mine works just fine (post all the way in) its the other one that has the problem. We didnt try to swap the post to see if the post is bent. We'll try.
Hell yes. I weld and metal fabricate FOR A LIVING. An Intense m-1 has 125 inches of weld on the main frame. I don't care who you are or how good the jig is. You weld 125 inches of .065 aluminum and it WILL warp a little. The alignment issuses on an M-1 are in the main frame, but you see it in the rear end because the pivots will be off by 2mm. By the time that 2mm get to the rear axel it's more like 10-20mm. BTW an intense mainframe is way thinner than.065.hucker13 said:
I Just build them. I would NEVER spend 30k on somthing with a Harley motor. Rather have a full race preped Duc for that.dropmachine.com said:
No a production bike is a built bike. If you build it up from a frame it's a custom. I was using this as an example. I have build a lot of "custom" DH bikes in the past 10 years. To be honest with you it is RARE that on just bolts right together. Why do you think bike shop have all those cool tools on the wall... for looks. In "production" the more you make the more flaws get thru. This is not an Intense thing it's a fabrication thing. This is why the aviation industry is so expensive. After I do the work I sign it off, then an inspector checks it and signs it off, then he has someone from the Federal Aviation Administration inspect it. Then it can leave the hanger. Without the motor a custom harley build just about the same as a DH bike. When I got my V-10 I spent two day machineing things to my likeing. Faced the brake mounts, headtube, and BB. Honed the seat tube too. Why because then I know it's right. You guy spend 2k on a bike but won't pay a shop $20 to face your headtube. I don't get it, but I work in a different industry. I apply my knowledge of aircraft/metal fabrication on my bikes. Safty wire, dye mark bolts to visually check to see if bolts are loose. In ten year of racing I have not had a DNF from a mechanical ever(not including flats). I'm telling you it pays off being that anal. Ask stick... IMO all personal things aside he has always been very good at what he does, and if you asked he could say the same thing. Very few bikes come out of the box and just go together.speedster said:
speedster said:
Yeti does this. :dancing:
One of the reason you pay more for one I'm sure. We keep wanting better cheaper bikes, but expect the same quality. Ummmmmm No!!!
I would have to say facing and reaming is normal frame prep.dhtahoe said:
There has been some discussion about how these skills are a lost art. Back in the day, road frames were rarely prepped, and this was a normal task. Today, there are more production bikes, and unless something is dramatically wrong, very few shops would remove factory installed parts to face threads.
Frankly, I don't much about building custom DH bikes, but it does sound similar to road prep. Many roadies who receive only framesets often require facing done.
However, alignment issues should never be part of a new bike prep. That has to go back to the manufacturer.
The orange VPX belonged to my retarded brother SJ, who cannot operate a computer. He's running a spacer as a bandaid on the issue; his alignment isn't nearly as bad as the Norsemens'.LOOnatic said:
I got my own Uzzi, to which Dogboy is referring. As he mentioned, the seat tube issue is not something you can solve with a flex hone. It requires a reamer and a couple of hours.
I brought this issue to attention of Intense several weeks ago. I found the "it's only supposed to go in 6 inches" answer unsatisfactory. First, Intense advertises the bike as having a quote unquote "uninterrupted seat tube." See http://www.intensecycles.com/ and click on the pull down menu by the shock on the VPX page. Second, Nick told me to my face that I would be able to sink the seat tube to the BB if I wanted to, when I asked him at Interbike. His solution to the issue was to suggest running a 30.8 seat post, which tells you how seriously they were taking the issue -- not very (at least at that time).
I've been around long enough to know that's there's always a risk that goes along with buying the very first run of any bike. And I don't expect perfection. I am disappointed, since it wouldn't be that hard for them to run the reamer a little deeper when finishing the frame. Hopefully, that's what they're doing now (hence the two different outcomes in the original post). I think it was probably just a miscommunication rather than a true QC issue. I'm not an engineer, not even an "e" one, but I can definitely envision a scenario in which their reamer is set up to ream only 6" down, since that's a far as they need to go on their interrupted seat tube bikes.
That being said, the extra work was definitely worth it. The bike is simply awesome, both in terms of handling and pedaling, where it surpasses similar bikes by a long way (IMHO, of course).
I can understand if there are some shortcomings on the workmanship. It happens in every industry. HOWEVER, what really piss you off is when they try to bull**** their way out of it by giving quick unintelligent answer. Lucky my friend was pretty nice on the phone. If it was me, I would've exploded and accused them of false advertising.meatboot said:
Two shops I deal with carry Intense, as well as other brands (Turner etc.) and as I've gotten to know the shop mechanics better they start to be more direct/honest....bottom line is that they don't think highly of Intense's quality control compared to other $2k frame brands (even $1200 frame brands like Yeti).stoney98 said:
dhtahoe i usually agree with your posts but on this topic i have to disagree. a production frame at that price should come reasonably straight and prepped. the fact that i never hear this complaint about Turner, for example, indicates that this level of quality can be accomplished.
bingo... i broke a shock on my m1... blew 4 others before i got sick of shelling out $$$ for rebuilds... great bike tho'... :... seriously, i loved it but i couldn t afford to keep it...stoney98 said:
T
The Misfit
Guest
I'm new to the sport but after reading this whole thread I would have to say I just wrote that whole company off as a P.O.S. if I spent that much I would expect to be able to open the box and start building, not complete the final stages of frame preparation. If I were those guys I would have already sent those frames back and bought something else, thats a no-brainer. I would prefer to get a true quality product and then do the personalized tweaks as mentioned in this thread to make it "the way I like it". I realize that the more you make, the more flawed product can get to the customer as stated here, thats why I save the box. If I had a frame that was 20mm out of alignment due to the heat of welding I would laugh and drop it back in the box, shoddy workmanship due to poor welding skills and lack of attention to detail.
First thing, is the Uzzi does have an uninterrupted seat tube, as opposed to their old "seat mast" design. It doesn't say how far down you can stick your post, though...
Frame prep issues are directly related to QC, but not necessarily means you are buying a lemon.
I would expect any production frame will have decent QC, simply because those Taiwanese robots do a good job. Keep in mind that companies like Turner and Santa Cruz use Sapa in Portland, a major alu manufacturer. Intense is truly a small builder, who designs and welds their own frames.
If the performance and the reliablity are good, then a little frame prep is not a big deal on a great frame. Again, the only issue should be alignment, and if that is bad, then you got a real problem.
Frame prep issues are directly related to QC, but not necessarily means you are buying a lemon.
I would expect any production frame will have decent QC, simply because those Taiwanese robots do a good job. Keep in mind that companies like Turner and Santa Cruz use Sapa in Portland, a major alu manufacturer. Intense is truly a small builder, who designs and welds their own frames.
If the performance and the reliablity are good, then a little frame prep is not a big deal on a great frame. Again, the only issue should be alignment, and if that is bad, then you got a real problem.
Using the quotation marks usually negates the need mention them verbally.....meatboot said:
There is an easy solution to this problem.......Buy a FOES product! Problem solved.