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The 2005 Turner Highline

crown race

Chimp
Jan 5, 2005
1
0
Moab
That's right ladies and dirt bags; I was lucky enough to have two weeks to scoot around on the new Turner Highline! Yes! It does exist! Even as a prototype I can tell you that this thing is out of hand! A bit over 8" (adjustable to 7”) in the rear, to be expected excellent construction, an '05 Boxxer Team and the '05 Saint stuff – all killer and no filler!

The frame: The thing I noticed right away, other than the sweet “raw” finish, was how utterly solid the frame felt - no torsional flex to speak of and most excellent, beef cake construction. DT thought the frame weighed in around 12 lbs, but was going to do some “trimming” on the production model to get that down a bit. Other cool stuff: 150mm rear end w/ 12mm TA; 83mm BB; 1.5” steerer with the Turner logo engraved in it; adjustable 7+”/8+” of rear end travel; ISCG mounts; duel chainring capability (even though I ran it with a single ring); huge tire clearance (I was running 2.7’s with tons of extra room –3.0 no problem); heavy duty stainless hardware; custom bearings (designed for radial and torsional loads, made in house on the three -main pivot locations); Fox DHX 5.0 rear shock; and a big, oversized Horst Link. The thing is tight! Yea, it looks like a Devinci, but according to DT he came up with the design independently. He noticed the similarities at ’03 Interbike and approached Devinci to manufacture his bike for him. For one reason or another it didn’t work out. I think DT’s worked out pretty damn good.

The ride: I’ll try to sum up bitchin’….Like most freeride rigs, this thing is plush and very confidence inspiring – unlike most freeride bikes the Highline exhibited that timeless Turner trait of actually accelerating and moving forward when you stomped on the pedals. For a super burly, 8” bike it climbed great! But I wasn’t necessarily interested in grinding it up a long climb, we’ll leave that to the XC guys; I wanted to know how it would handle the rough and drops going down… Crazy – the Highline made Porcupine Rim seem like a paved bike path with speed bumps! On the “locals only” trails it really shined – 10 - 12 footers were not even an issue and the slack front end (65* to 66.5*) and torsional stiffness helped it tracked straight and true in the steeps. The rising rate linkage gave it that classic Turner bottomless feel; a low center of gravity allowed it to rail corners and the Horst link eliminated any brake jack so the excellent Saint brakes could do their job in the rough. It will obviously take way more than I’ll be able to throw at it. It’s a pro-level rig all the way. Did I mention the cool finish?

Local uber-rider, Nate Mackay, took it out to Bartlett for a surfing session in the Superbowl. Check out this super sweet photo -

http://gallery.mtbr.com/showphoto.php?photo=6503&password=&sort=1&cat=all&page=1

DT believes he’ll have it ready for production sometime in the late spring, I hope so…I gotta get one I can keep!
 

Attachments

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,371
7,767
zedro said:
dont see the connection
d'oh. i thought i'd read somewhere on nsmb (mistake #1) that the brodie devo looked similar. but looking at a pic of it it doesn't seem to be similar at all. must have been that devinci one i was trying to think of.
 

dlb

Monkey
Apr 15, 2004
202
0
socal
There's alot of Turner guys that have been waiting for some reports, sounds like a great FR bike, I got to see the frame at IB and it is stout.

You mentioned the sweet Saint brakes, did they really impress you like the new frame?
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,144
1
at the end of the longest line
Toshi said:
d'oh. i thought i'd read somewhere on nsmb (mistake #1) that the brodie devo looked similar. but looking at a pic of it it doesn't seem to be similar at all. must have been that devinci one i was trying to think of.
sure sure, bet you were trolling on Pinkbike again.... :think:
 

BadFastard

Monkey
Jan 29, 2002
121
0
Belgium
Funny that only years after intense, specialized and a few other brand, Turner also descover the great many wonders of FSR linkage.
I'm betting on 2009 before they jump in the vpp band wagon ;-)
 

Acadian

Born Again Newbie
Sep 5, 2001
714
2
Blah Blah and Blah
so is that the "latest" prototype? I talked to Dave back in December and he was, yet again, redesigning the Highline.

He was shortening the chainstays...and was trying to figure how to do that without having the rear wheel hit the saddle under full travel, and he also didn't want to interrupt the seat tube. He's was also changing the shock mounting position while figuring out how to lower it in order to lower the CG. BB height was going to remain unchanged from what I was told.
 

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
BadFastard said:
Funny that only years after intense, specialized and a few other brand, Turner also descover the great many wonders of FSR linkage.
I'm betting on 2009 before they jump in the vpp band wagon ;-)

What's so great about FSR? Yeah it's a good system in that it doesn't have any glaring problems (brakes ok, pedals ok, axle path is ok, shock rate is usually ok, packaging is ok), but it doesn't really have any standout features that put it above any other system as far as I'm concerned. IMO it's a good compromise between all the major things a bike has to do, but it doesn't do any one thing particularly well either.
 

Jorgen

Monkey
Oct 3, 2003
255
0
Oslo, Norway
Are you serious?
Turner has had FSR since the beginning in 1994 or something.
I guess they started making FSR-bikes before Intense, maybe before SPec also.

BadFastard said:
Funny that only years after intense, specialized and a few other brand, Turner also descover the great many wonders of FSR linkage.
I'm betting on 2009 before they jump in the vpp band wagon ;-)
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,171
380
Roanoke, VA
Jorgen said:
Are you serious?
Turner has had FSR since the beginning in 1994 or something.
I guess they started making FSR-bikes before Intense, maybe before SPec also.
Dave Turner worked with Horst Leitner at AMP for a while after he was done racing for Mongoose, where of course, they were developing the "Amplifier". The original Burner came out in '93 beating the FSR by a fair few months
 

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
BadFastard said:
Funny that only years after intense, specialized and a few other brand, Turner also descover the great many wonders of FSR linkage.
I'm betting on 2009 before they jump in the vpp band wagon ;-)
Dude, you need to do some research if you think that's Turner's first Horst bike. :rolleyes:
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
actually I just read a thread in the Turner forum yesterday where Dave explained his entire Horst Link time line and how it pre-dated any Specialized
here is the quote direct from Dave:
Turner bikes licenses the rights to use a pivot that was originally patented by Horst Leitner while I was working for him. Years later Specialized bought them from Horst. There is nothing construction like between a Turner and Specialized. We both design using a pivot between the rear axle and pivot at the BB shell, which yields what most consider a "true 4 bar link" . Turner bikes are fully made in the USA from American aluminum and labor. All Turner designs are done by me and I utilize the rights to the Horst link patents as well as the ICT patents. The freedom to place pivots where I want is what gives each Turner bike the specific ride characteristics for each model.
Then question from forum member:
Out of interest, who was the 1st to use the Horst link - I have these memories of 1st seeing them on an AMP B1 - now that looked incredible for the time. Was anyone using the Horst link before that?
Then Dave's response:
Horst of course! Mongoose AMPlifier. Horst had worked on chain torque nuetralizing motorcycle drive systems with the first ATKs and then the aftermarket add on called AMP link that could be bolted to many dirt bikes and quads. His focus was allowing power to be put out without locking or extending the suspension system. I have ridden the AMP link on a 250 Yamaha and it was a big advantage in the rocks and rough. I knew that having the ability to put full power on a bicycle and not have the rear end lifting/ stiffening or squatting would make carrying the extra weight of suspension worth it. The Horst link may be old by the date, but certainly not outdated
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
BadFastard said:
true.
I stand corrected
Forgot about the Burner and all.
Time for the weekend I guess....
Yeah, the burner,
the O 2,
the stinger,
the XCE,
the RFX,
the Afterburner,
the 5-spot,
the six-pack,
the flux,
the nitrous,
the Highline,

Easy mistake, eh? :p ;)
 

Softy

Monkey
Apr 22, 2003
142
0
Don't call it a come back
BadFastard said:
Funny that only years after intense, specialized and a few other brand, Turner also descover the great many wonders of FSR linkage.
I'm betting on 2009 before they jump in the vpp band wagon ;-)
Huh? Turners have been 4-bar for years.
 

oly

skin cooker for the hive
Dec 6, 2001
5,118
6
Witness relocation housing
bizutch said:
actually I just read a thread in the Turner forum yesterday where Dave explained his entire Horst Link time line and how it pre-dated any Specialized
here is the quote direct from Dave:
Turner bikes licenses the rights to use a pivot that was originally patented by Horst Leitner while I was working for him. Years later Specialized bought them from Horst. There is nothing construction like between a Turner and Specialized. We both design using a pivot between the rear axle and pivot at the BB shell, which yields what most consider a "true 4 bar link" . Turner bikes are fully made in the USA from American aluminum and labor. All Turner designs are done by me and I utilize the rights to the Horst link patents as well as the ICT patents. The freedom to place pivots where I want is what gives each Turner bike the specific ride characteristics for each model.
Then question from forum member:
Out of interest, who was the 1st to use the Horst link - I have these memories of 1st seeing them on an AMP B1 - now that looked incredible for the time. Was anyone using the Horst link before that?
Then Dave's response:
Horst of course! Mongoose AMPlifier. Horst had worked on chain torque nuetralizing motorcycle drive systems with the first ATKs and then the aftermarket add on called AMP link that could be bolted to many dirt bikes and quads. His focus was allowing power to be put out without locking or extending the suspension system. I have ridden the AMP link on a 250 Yamaha and it was a big advantage in the rocks and rough. I knew that having the ability to put full power on a bicycle and not have the rear end lifting/ stiffening or squatting would make carrying the extra weight of suspension worth it. The Horst link may be old by the date, but certainly not outdated
Yea, Right... what does he know..... :)

One of the best things about turner is the interaction they (dave and casey mainly) have with their customers on forums. Not every request can be answered by them, but ive seen so many times where they do a great job of answering what they can (although i wish they were sending me my new frame rather than posting on the web...). Im really excited for the HL to be released, although since my 05 frame is already ordered it wont be till next season.
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,881
4,226
Copenhagen, Denmark
The Highline is a great looking bike.

Anybody knwo why Turner droped a horst linked DH bike in favor of the sigle pivot DHR I am even more interested in the answer now that Turner has the Highline with 8" travel almost ready for production?
 

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
Sorry to burst everyones proverbial bubble but the Highline is now slated to be an 06 model.
at 13lbs,15"bb,etc a few dealers asked"why make a bike that's even heavier than the DHR and will not perform as well while descending?You have a 3,4,5,6"bikes an two 8.5"bikes-where's the 7" real Freeride bike? Not exxxtreme freeride but a pedalable bike that is very durable and not rediculously heavy?"
So he said yeah...i guess you have a point.If people want a huck bike a single pivot with rising rate does make sense,that;s my DHR"
so with his busy schedule of making the other models it will be a while to make another proto befor the season gets underway.

Now i know that there are plenty of dudes rockin Flys,Demo's vp free's etc with 8"travel forks and claim they're actually pedaling uphill,and that's fine with me,but i feel that part of the market is pretty small compared to the 'real'fr market.
Personally i can't see puttin a granny on a 45lb bike when you use less energy pushin.So i would like to see the Highline become more rideable.

Also the DHR is a low single pivot because Dave Turner felt that cornering and ultimate strength were more important than pedaling efficiency on a DH race bike.
 

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
What Jm said on emtybeer sounds right.
Also it's hard to make a "good"4 bar with that kind of travel.All of turners 4 bars are now ICT except the Highline.It would have to look like a Dare to work right,or maybe a Demo which is still not all that vertical.what i am trying to say is the pluses of 4 bar get negated with the link position of the Highline,and he's using 4 bar because the bike's supposed to be a pedaler.
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,881
4,226
Copenhagen, Denmark
Thanks to everybody for the info and the refresment of my horst link knowledge.

I personnally think a DH bike should also be good pedaler as I run into a lot of pedaling here on the East cost and seems like the pros use every opportunity to pedal they get.
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
CBJ said:
Thanks to everybody for the info and the refresment of my horst link knowledge.

I personnally think a DH bike should also be good pedaler as I run into a lot of pedaling here on the East cost and seems like the pros use every opportunity to pedal they get.
Have you ridden a DHR?
It is an awesome pedaling DH bike, and that is another reason so many pros run them. It just happens to corner like it is mad at them for being there. :)
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,144
1
at the end of the longest line
Jeremy R said:
Have you ridden a DHR?
It is an awesome pedaling DH bike, and that is another reason so many pros run them. It just happens to corner like it is mad at them for being there. :)
thats because theres a difference between pedalling uphill and pedalling downhill. Uphill it would really suck...like the Konas
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
Acadian said:
name them! :rolleyes: :devil:
Its easier if I just type "half the field."
Yardsale at Mt. Snow this year looked like it was raining DHR's.
Whether you like that or not depends on if you like your bike to be
"Rare" like in that other thread. Rare to me means when I break a part,
I am gonna be walking around in the pits trying to get my bike fixed and the odds are "Rare" that it is gonna happen.

And DRB, now I can finally retire from all the checks I have been getting from my huge corporate sponsors. Amatuer mountain biking is sweet, I get paid the same as a pro. :D ;)
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
zedro said:
thats because theres a difference between pedalling uphill and pedalling downhill. Uphill it would really suck...like the Konas
Pedaling any DH bike uphill sucks regardless. Even with no bob, the angles and weight make it silly.
But racing in the Southeast, we have a few flat as crap race courses, and when most people bring out their small bikes on them, I still use my DHR.
It is just efficient. I have a 5-spot as well that is an FSR and just does not move from pedaling (especially with the RP3 shock), but I am faster on my DHR for some reason, even on courses that are as flat as Charlotte.
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,881
4,226
Copenhagen, Denmark
Jeremy R said:
Have you ridden a DHR?
It is an awesome pedaling DH bike, and that is another reason so many pros run them. It just happens to corner like it is mad at them for being there. :)
Never ridden the DHR - just trying to say that a DH bike should do both and one should not exclude the other. Never ment to step on you delicate DHR toes and by the way forget about the DHR you know the Sunday rule rock gardens across the nation in 05 :)
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Jeremy R said:
Pedaling any DH bike uphill sucks regardless. Even with no bob, the angles and weight make it silly.
Regardless, there are bikes that pedal better or worse than others. A better pedaling bike will be faster. Also a lighter bike will be easier to handle and will also be faster. If the weight isn't important then why don't you run some lowered super monsters with some extra heavy tires, trade your new DHR for one of the older heavier versions, and whatever else you can do to push the weight up :p