Team vs WC
- Thread starter Kntr
- Start date
I really would like to know the answer to this question as well, from someone who has actually ridden each, and actually owes one of them. I'm pleased with my Team, but like the 40 I owned back in the day, I find myself constantly swaping new springs in combination with different setting configurations. I'm beginning to think I should have followed my gut and went with the WC I always ran in the past for the adjustability of air.
I would like to know too
but doesn't necessarily gives you better performance...so on one side you have the performance of the coil spring versus the ease to use an air sprung fork...
I dont know anything about BoXXers, but was under the impression they both share the same damper but one has a coil spring and the other air( and Im too lazy to look it up ) so in theory the Team would give you better performance?!?!?
The team spring rate, in a word, sucks IMO, way to stiff/progressive. I own the Team and have spent 4 frustrating months trying to get a satisfactory ride quality out of my Team. after trying the medium and soft springs and chopping an inch out of the drop stop elastomer I've finally settled on the soft spring (I'm 175lbs, soft spring, WTF?). The feel of the team is far more progressive than the WC. My buddies WC felt much better than mine and provided more usable tuning with the more linear air spring. Basically to get usable travel out of my team I run a soft spring, no bottom out assistance, and inch shortened drop stop elastomer and both compression settings backed out almost all the way.but doesn't necessarily gives you better performance...so on one side you have the performance of the coil spring versus the ease to use an air sprung fork...
I dont know anything about BoXXers, but was under the impression they both share the same damper but one has a coil spring and the other air( and Im too lazy to look it up ) so in theory the Team would give you better performance?!?!?
They may share the same damper, but the WC is worth the loot for fewer tuning frustrations.
I ride a team, and bounced around on a WC. The WC was sticky compared to my team.
Edit: oth had the recall work done
Edit: oth had the recall work done
The new WC has a floating (auto-resizing) negative chamber which should make the fork more linear than the previous forks, and when you factor in that the Team now has the stupid drop-stop that Zark described the pains of, I'd be opting for the WC.
It will be a lighter, more tunable fork out of the box, and you won't have to go modding/removing things to get all the travel out of it.
Alternatively you could get the Team and mod or remove the dropstop to make it more linear. Either way, just make sure you get the updated version, and pack the seals with grease and add/change the lower oil when you get them. It'll save a lot of heartache.
It will be a lighter, more tunable fork out of the box, and you won't have to go modding/removing things to get all the travel out of it.
Alternatively you could get the Team and mod or remove the dropstop to make it more linear. Either way, just make sure you get the updated version, and pack the seals with grease and add/change the lower oil when you get them. It'll save a lot of heartache.
Am I the only person who is having no problems with the drop stop? The rubber ring around the stanchion is always bottomed out against the lower crown at the end of a run, and I'm not riding any harder/differently than anybody else. I weigh 150, running the stock spring.
You just gotta hit shlt harder
With the spring I "should" be using I never touched the last inch of travel, true.
But everyone I know my weight ends up running the lighter spring. It really does balance out better and then the bottom out bumper does it's thing in the 5-10% of the time you go that deep.
Point is, I don't think that bumper makes the stroke progressive. It just makes the last inch on too high a spring rate inaccessible. Subtle difference.
No...I too have had no issues with it. I too am 150 on a heavy day, but run the soft spring. I run through all of my travel once a ride here in Squamish BC. At first when it was brand new I thought I was going to have to take it out but once the fork bed in I noticed I was blowing through all the travel and had to make some adjustments to the damper. It runs sweet as now!
Yep, I was following this guy off this triple this morning and he has a 2010 Boxxer Team, and he was using every bit of his travel. Trust me. (the landing is past the big tree on the far right of the pic.)
I know two pinners around here on that fork and both of them love it and have no problems with it.
And just for good measure, I used all the travel on my 08 boxxer team on said jump with a magnificent tank slapping bar hump today.
Bender himself could not have landed more rear wheel heavy.
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Stems are made for lovin'
But yeah that 2010 team is the best dh fork I've ever owned. The bottom out judy tech elastomer seems to do exactly what it's supposed to, nothing more, nothing less.
But yeah that 2010 team is the best dh fork I've ever owned. The bottom out judy tech elastomer seems to do exactly what it's supposed to, nothing more, nothing less.
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LOFL
Judy Tech! You frickin nailed it. It is a 1990's throwback isn't it?Maybe your right and it is the best thing since sliced bread. I'm pretty damn happy with my fork now. It just took way too long to get there. SRAM screwed the pooch on the spring rating, the medium spring is supposed to be 160-180lb weight range, I guess they erred on the safe side. I just wish it didn't take a whole summer to get the right feel.
I have the same problem with my team, only can use around 180mm (on a track like Schladming!)
Now i removed the drop stop and it feels better on the "car park" but I had no change to test it on a real track yet, becouse winter is starting in Austria and all tracks are closed.
One side question: If i want to reinstall the drop stop, should i place it in the middle of the spring or at the end of the spring?
Now i removed the drop stop and it feels better on the "car park" but I had no change to test it on a real track yet, becouse winter is starting in Austria and all tracks are closed.
One side question: If i want to reinstall the drop stop, should i place it in the middle of the spring or at the end of the spring?
Not much different than a bottom out bumper on a rear shoc. Judy tech has been here all along.LOFL
Very interesting! So do you think the heavy spring (x-heavy?) would be adequate for a 250+ lbs guy? It appears the springs run firm, and I want a new fork, so I'm x'ing my fingers. Ideally I drop down to 220, but I'm no idealist.
i like my WC quite a bit. Its going to come down to the typical air vs coil debate. I got the wc and it is crazy how tunable it is. it is very plush for an air fork and coming off a 2009 marz 888 ata (for sale) i don't notice a huge difference in stiffness or plushness.
although i do have to say that the 2009 boxxer team i owned for a very brief period was pretty dang plush.
although i do have to say that the 2009 boxxer team i owned for a very brief period was pretty dang plush.
And nobody thought of me? I got a bike again.Yep, I was following this guy off this triple this morning and he has a 2010 Boxxer Team, and he was using every bit of his travel. Trust me. (the landing is past the big tree on the far right of the pic.)
I know two pinners around here on that fork and both of them love it and have no problems with it.
And just for good measure, I used all the travel on my 08 boxxer team on said jump with a magnificent tank slapping bar hump today.
Bender himself could not have landed more rear wheel heavy.
As for the Team versus Air, I've ridden both, but it's the '08 models both setup for my riding style and weight. The air works pretty darn good from what I could tell in a full 3 day weekend of racing at Snowshoe. It tended to stay up in the travel during little hits like chatter and rooty sections. My '08 Team feels a little more sensitive in chatter, which I'll take any day. It adds up over a 3 day weekend of 1500' vertical runs. But if someone gave me both for the same price, I'd take the team.
Oil bath equals trust. Air equals leak. I've never seen anything in MTB that didn't leak air at some point.
Not getting full travel is a oil problem I believe I got my Team and could not get anywhere near full travel and had that awful knocking noise,sent it in for service the tech changed the oil in the cartridge,lubed everything and fixed the knocking noise,got it back and now I have full travel.At first I hated the fork but now that it is working properly I love it.
The drop stop kicks in at 6.5"...
If you shred the fat stepdowns you get full travel, if you hang off the back on a chattery racecourse trimming 1/2 " off or removing it is a good idea.
If you shred the fat stepdowns you get full travel, if you hang off the back on a chattery racecourse trimming 1/2 " off or removing it is a good idea.
This may be a dumb question, but I'm not to proud to ask.
If I love how my 08 Team feels wouldn't the 2010 "Race" basically be the same? I mean they both basically have Rebound and compression.
Sometimes I think that for the majority of us....suspension is just way to overdone.....best fork I ever owned was an 01 Monster T with just rebound and compression...........I'm not ashamed to just use that and it felt rad.........and I'm NEVER going to be a world cup level racer so I most likely would never noticed all the "improvements".
Race actually seems like the way to go for me? no?
If I love how my 08 Team feels wouldn't the 2010 "Race" basically be the same? I mean they both basically have Rebound and compression.
Sometimes I think that for the majority of us....suspension is just way to overdone.....best fork I ever owned was an 01 Monster T with just rebound and compression...........I'm not ashamed to just use that and it felt rad.........and I'm NEVER going to be a world cup level racer so I most likely would never noticed all the "improvements".
Race actually seems like the way to go for me? no?
01 monster? Didn't the older monsters use SSV damping?
Huh.........
I think I'm pretty regularly using that thing then.
What's the range of that bottom out adjuster then? Half an inch maybe? So is that 6.5" engagement with the adjuster all the way in or out?
You mean that in 2002 the monster had ssv or that there was a 2nd version of monster with SSV that I can't find. Anyway I'm quite sure they higher end marz dampers were of later time and I wouldn't call SSV great.
So............ does the 2010 Race perform the same functions as the 2008 Team?
Cause thats all the fat man needs........
Cause thats all the fat man needs........
Essentially yes. Same adjustments and dampening system made to fit in the larger OD stanctions.
I'm all over a race...........makes sense to me.
I thought the Race just used the same basic Moco cartridge as the previous model race? It doesn't use the Moco from the previous Team.
Still happy with my Team. Working well, feels good. Have had it apart a couple of times to regrease & oil, have also modified the stupid adjusters on the bottom of the right leg to make them a bit easier to remove & put back on. I've cut my bottom out adjuster in half & I now have full travel!
As a side note, doing a Race - Team conversion? I understand its nowhere near as cost effective as previous years, but is that because you supposedly need the bottom out bits as well in the spring leg? Because, to put it bluntly, its a waste of time!
Still happy with my Team. Working well, feels good. Have had it apart a couple of times to regrease & oil, have also modified the stupid adjusters on the bottom of the right leg to make them a bit easier to remove & put back on. I've cut my bottom out adjuster in half & I now have full travel!
As a side note, doing a Race - Team conversion? I understand its nowhere near as cost effective as previous years, but is that because you supposedly need the bottom out bits as well in the spring leg? Because, to put it bluntly, its a waste of time!
170lbs. Soft spring. 1" cut off the drop stop.
160lb, soft spring, un-cut drop stop 2-3 turns in, 1-3 clicks hsc and 10-13 clicks lsc in from fully open. never had a problem getting full travel.
also run a med. spring w/ less damping on steeper tracks.
also run a med. spring w/ less damping on steeper tracks.
150lbs, soft spring, uncut drop stop and 0 turns in! Still get through the travel! 3 Clicks in on low speed comp, 3 clicks in on high speed comp, 7 clicks beginning stroke, 10 clicks end stroke rebound.
Out of curiosity, Lee what rebound settings are you running?
And -C-. What did you do to the rebound damper to make it easier to remove and put pack in? I imagine something to do with the hokey little snap ring?
Out of curiosity, Lee what rebound settings are you running?
And -C-. What did you do to the rebound damper to make it easier to remove and put pack in? I imagine something to do with the hokey little snap ring?
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