[TheInedibleHulk]

I must admit despite being an east coaster I was muttering quite a few obscenities while slogging through the mud in the flat section, all and all though, I know I got better at riding mud throughout the weekend and I feel my entry fee was well spent. On a brighter note, lets hear it for the worlds scariest, biggest, most kick a$$ mountaincross course. Only on that course could Ross come back from a crash twenty yards in and reel in the second place guy in the first pro heat. For those that missed it, Milan was taken out in the very first corner and after rather casually getting up and looking at the gap, decided to throw down the most insane NOS-shot high speed reel-in Ive ever seen, it seemed like his tires werent even touching the ground. I would say the gap he closed was at least 200ft. Amazing.

 

[Karpieldisco]

I must admit despite being an east coaster I was muttering quite a few obscenities while slogging through the mud in the flat section, all and all though, I know I got better at riding mud throughout the weekend and I feel my entry fee was well spent. On a brighter note, lets hear it for the worlds scariest, biggest, most kick a$$ mountaincross course. Only on that course could Ross come back from a crash twenty yards in and reel in the second place guy in the first pro heat. For those that missed it, Milan was taken out in the very first corner and after rather casually getting up and looking at the gap, decided to throw down the most insane NOS-shot high speed reel-in Ive ever seen, it seemed like his tires werent even touching the ground. I would say the gap he closed was at least 200ft. Amazing.

Now this is what I like to hear.. Thank you. Although I was not able to attend I have hear that Mike and the Racers Edge Team did a hell of a job on the MX course. I can't take credit for any of it- but I know they worked very hard to make it the best MX course possible. If anyone has any pictures please post them. Also if you wish to send the team any suggestions for the next course ( mx that is) please feel free to email me @ karpieldisco and I will gladly forward them to Mike and the rest of the people involved in making the MX course..

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

lets hear it for the worlds scariest, biggest, most kick a$$ mountaincross course. Only on that course could Ross come back from a crash twenty yards in and reel in the second place guy in the first pro heat. For those that missed it, Milan was taken out in the very first corner and after rather casually getting up and looking at the gap, decided to throw down the most insane NOS-shot high speed reel-in Ive ever seen, it seemed like his tires werent even touching the ground. I would say the gap he closed was at least 200ft. Amazing.

 

[ridetoofast]

i wonder if this dude could put as much effort into doing something to help out with the cause as he f'ing whinning about it.


sweet f'ing jeebus get over it and yourself

i was there the weekend before and the xpert course was insane...so i just walked down it...barely

and then preceede to have fun elesewhere....what a concept huh???

snowshoe rocks plain and simple and its only going to get better. i can't begin to say enough good things about what they have done so far.

please keep up the good work and i only wished i lived close enough that i could drive up there and help myself.

if i ever see you guys up there though (hulk and whoever else did it) come introduce yourself and ill be happy to buy you LOTS of beer...is that good enough?


black big hit with orange monster and most likely a sYhte eating grin on my face

 

[Transcend]

Ross beat outmy buddy freddy who went all too slow (too bad for him!, live and learn). Ross kicked ass.

That mtnx course was pure insanity, i loved every second of it.

 

[ChrisKring]

First, the mtx course was very cool.

However, the pro DH course was a mess. The upper 1/4 and the lower 1/4 of the course were great. But the middle sucked. Weeks before the race hulkamania posted that the new course would drain. It didn't. The course was ridable at 3pm on Saturday but turned to complete $hit by Sunday morning. The log jump would have been decent if someone would have put down something (heck even plywood) to stablize it. The off camber was ok except for the fact that the rut got blown out between saturday and sunday. The flat mud bog sucked though.

The people running the race can take this as constructive critism or ignore it. Personally, I know of over 10 people that live local to me that were at snowshoe the last 4 years but skipped it this year because it sucked so bad this year. Except for 1 person that live by me, everyone said they would not go back next year unless the race was moved to later in the year. I drove 14 hours each way to ride that crap course. Basically, if they don't do something to improve it, no one will come any more. The XC crowd was saying the same thing.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I thought the course ruled and was perfect.

 

[dhtahoe]

Glad I stayed home!!!!

 

[SuspectDevice]

go race XC if you do not like rocks, ruts, and off cammber

You don't race much xc eh?

 

[8it]

With the opening of Diablo and what P-kills has been doing these past years and now Snowshoe representing the eastcoast riding scene is growing more and faster than ever before. I went up to Snowshoe before the nationals and yes it was muddy as hell and yes the freeride park isn't whistler but it still rocks and I was glad to have somewhere like this to go on the eastcoast.
I back-up Snowshoe and what they are doing for the eastcoast. Could things get done a little better, yeah it could, but are they doing a great job, HELL YES. Will they probably get even better as time and support goes on, HELL YES. I had a chance to speak with some of the staff and I got the impression that they were doing alot with very little so don't bag on them cause everything isn't 100% cause they are working with much less than 100% and still giving us an awesome place to ride.
Opening season at Diablo wasn't without its drawbacks but support and constructive criticism (and a crapload of hardwork) has made that place into what it is and will take it to the next level!

 

[Hulkamaniac]

I've been sitting back and reading all this today (was out of the office Monday and Tuesday) and I think now is the time for me to respond. First off, I want to extend a big thanks to all our supporters and also thank those who are providing us with constructive cristism. As someone said earlier in this thread, Rome wasn't built in a day..........well, neither is a entire trail network. It takes time, labor and good weather, which isn't always on our side as you all know.

To answer the critics of the bike park, sorry the features don't test your high skill. We are building the park with riders in mind, you can't build a feature right away that is beyond 75% of your markets riding ability. Sure, there are some of us out there that aren't challenged by the features we currently have, but they are still fun to ride and much more is on the way. I'm not sure which trail or trails you rode in the park, but I can tell you that we do have some tight, skinny, high risk, and tech lines already in place.

This summer will see us building many new features that challenge even the best riders out there...........remember, what we have built thus far is only what we were able to accomplish in roughly a months time. Virtually all of us that spent time building the park have other "full-time" jobs, we've volunteered hundreds of man hours of our own personal time (weekends, holidays, etc!) to build what is currently available. Harsh criticism such as in this post only adds fuel to our fire.........though we take it personal, we also realize that you can't please everyone all of the time. To those that we have made happy thus far and to those that are a little less than happy, give us time.........again, Rome wasn't built in a day!

As far as marketing hype, I for one don't think it's hype. We openly state that we are continually building and this is a work in process, giving the consumer something to look forward to......I don't see that as hype. I also do not recall any employee or persons involved with the park calling Snowshoe the "Whistler of the East". As you said, that is a bold statement and we one day hope to achieve that status, but it's not a title that anyone involved would bestow on the park just yet. I have heard several people in the area, mostly patrons and riders, call us that based on their own opinions.......but it's just that, their own opinion.

As for ranking ourselves as the top resort in the East, no park/Snowshoe employee has stated such. All of us have major respect for Plattekill (it will always be the original in my mind.....having raced/ridden there many times) and definitely respect the involvement that places like Mountain Creek/Diablo have in this region/industry. We are not trying to out-do any other resort, we are simply providing area enthusiasts with a place to ride and enjoy. Everyone involved here views Mtn Creek, Plattekill, etc as another venue for the East Coast scene to grow through......I think the east will finally get the recognition it deserves. While your home mountains, wherever it may be, may be your favorite and a class above in your mind, just remember that it's a small community on the east coast and everyone should be in that class. In case you didn't already know, Mountain Creek is also owned by Intrawest (as is Whistler/Blackcomb, Mammoth, Copper, Stratton, Snowshoe, etc) and if you can't tell Intrawest is a major supporter of mountain bike programs.

To say that our features are built over rideable land or built just for the sole purpose of building a feature is asinine. Over 75% of the features we have built were done so because of natural springs, creeks, or sensitive areas that lay beneath them. Often times this is not evident in pictures or even as you pass over them, however you would quickly realize how nasty those sections would get if we let you just run through them a few times. The creeks, bogs, swamps, etc that we built over allow us the opportunity to get creative with feature designs.

The Dh course was a big nasty situation. While it was built by Snowshoe employees, it was done so by a crew that works solely on the Norba and other large scale events throughout the summer. None of the park builders/designers were asked to help build or cut the dh trail. Could more have been put into the pro/expert course? Sure, and I can tell you that you will see work put into by the same crew that built the park very shortly, as well as the addition of several new dh trails in that area. The blame for the course conditions lays largely on the weather, which is something nobody can control. Sure, it was a fresh course, but had the weather been different I think everyone would be saying very different things. The torrential rains of Friday led to some problems, much of which course grooming would not have corrected. Raking out mud would have only created much bigger problems. I apologize to all for the course conditions, but it was far beyond my control.

Much of spring and June are "wet" months for Snowshoe and the surrounding area as you saw. There isn't much we can do about that unless the National is scheduled later in the summer. July and August are typically much drier, we shall see what happens next year.

Again, I want to thank all our supporters and those who contribute with ideas, hard work, and dedication. I would also like to thank all those who came out and raced, spectated, or just hung out this past week. If your wondering where we are going from here, take a look at our Mountain Cross course and begin to draw your own conclusion...........I'll leave it at that.

Finally, sorry Snowshoe didn't live up to your expectations. Know that we are trying our best to make this place amazing and while it may take a few years, the passion and fire that are driving us will not go away. We are building this park and dh trail network as riders for riders (I myself ride dh every weekend and spend most of the week tooling around on my xc and dj bikes.......as do most every other person up here). Rider input is greatly appreciated and valued, yet we are not looking for flames or immature comments. If you have suggestions, valuable input, commments, or questions please feel free to email me to either PM me on here or send an email to the address on our mountain biking website http://ride.snowshoemtn.com.

Good luck at Mt Snow and hope to see everyone again soon!

-Hulk

 

[spoke80]

Hulk,

Thanks for the work you have completed and for what you want to accomplish. Don't let the "fire" die.

 

[profro]

I personally am not trying to slamp you guys personally. I spoke with a guy who stayed below up in the condo unit (dartman, I think?) and he echoed much of what you were saying about how the local riders like yourself didn't have much if at all anything to do with the DH course.

However I see how it could have been made better under the circumstances i.e. known race dates and known weather conditions.

You're right, there is no way to "rake" mud out of the course, but some maintaince of that log drop and those two rutted corners after it could have been done as the weekend progressed. Truth be known my only real complaints were the off-camber section (some type of bench cutting would have gone a long way), the log drop (after Saturday afternoon), and the stupid downed tree just before the 'rock garden'. In the dry, that tree would have been okay, but after all that pedalling, and then going up hill out of those two pots holes in the mud that stupid tree made things miserable.

I am sorry but I don't take weather as an excuse. You know its going to rain this time of year and blasting that many riders down a new trail that lacks good trail building techniques in sections is asking for complaints.

But it did have its good points and I'll be back next year. If I lived closer I'd make a point to help out. All and all I did enjoy myself. It could have been worse.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Hulk,

Thanks for the work you have completed and for what you want to accomplish. Don't let the "fire" die.

Props to you and your crew Hulk I most likely met you over the past 2 weekends on the freeride stuff. Just keep up the good work!

 

[Hulkamaniac]

However I see how it could have been made better under the circumstances i.e. known race dates and known weather conditions.

Your right, but again we were not in charge of this, the course was built by an entirely different department. Sorta like going to the dirt jump trails in your local town, you don't alter/remold the jumps when your not the original builder unless your given the okay to do so. With Norba now over, that course/trail will see a large amount of work done to it very shortly.....re-routing, grooming, benching, etc. It was simply not our time nor place to do so before the race.

You're right, there is no way to "rake" mud out of the course, but some maintaince of that log drop and those two rutted corners after it could have been done as the weekend progressed. Truth be known my only real complaints were the off-camber section (some type of bench cutting would have gone a long way), the log drop (after Saturday afternoon), and the stupid downed tree just before the 'rock garden'. In the dry, that tree would have been okay, but after all that pedalling, and then going up hill out of those two pots holes in the mud that stupid tree made things miserable.

Again, these issues will be addressed very soon. I know exactly what your talking about, as it's the same issues that kept me from racing this year. I knew the course was going to get blown out and my skills and fitness aren't up to my liking just yet this season, so I opted out. In dry weather, I think this course would be pretty fun.

I am sorry but I don't take weather as an excuse. You know its going to rain this time of year and blasting that many riders down a new trail that lacks good trail building techniques in sections is asking for complaints.

I'm not using weather as an excuse, but simply trying to reinforce the magnitude of what weather can do to a course. Again, I wasn't able to give my input on the course and don't know exactly what was taken into consideration when it was built. The issues are going to be addressed though. New trails/courses will be cut very soon, which should allow plenty of time for the trails to become "ridden in" and potential problems to be found sooner rather than later.

 

[W4S]

Big props to Hulkamaniac for considering the criticism and developing a plan to make Snowshoe a better place to ride.

Could you please come take over Big Bear? They won't even return e-mails, as they continue to make the bike park a worse place to ride weekly. :angry:

 

[Karpieldisco]

Hulk- You said it all!!!! Will catch up with you next time Mike rolls into work on the trails..

 

[mgy]

Ok, first read what people wrote. Those complaining about the course DID expect mud at Snow Shoe. What they didn't expect is a 100 yard flat section that even while pedaling as hard as you could you could not go over 10 miles an hour on. The course design was horrible, too much flat, to many straight sections and no flow. Last years course was twice as technical, much harder to ride and much more fun. It is a bike race, I expect and like to pedal but the flat sections sucked all the life out of me. I expected the course to be as good or better than last year and it was pretty lame. The beginner/sport course was fun though! I had more fun coaching my racers on it than I did on the pro course.

 

[mgy]

Again, these issues will be addressed very soon. I know exactly what your talking about, as it's the same issues that kept me from racing this year. I knew the course was going to get blown out and my skills and fitness aren't up to my liking just yet this season, so I opted out. In dry weather, I think this course would be pretty fun.

I'm not using weather as an excuse, but simply trying to reinforce the magnitude of what weather can do to a course. Again, I wasn't able to give my input on the course and don't know exactly what was taken into consideration when it was built. The issues are going to be addressed though. New trails/courses will be cut very soon, which should allow plenty of time for the trails to become "ridden in" and potential problems to be found sooner rather than later.

Thank you! I will be back next year hoping for a course as good as last years.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I dont know what you guys are all talking about. It wasnt even slippery out there. No skillz.

 

[profro]

However I see how it could have been made better under the circumstances i.e. known race dates and known weather conditions.

Your right, but again we were not in charge of this, the course was built by an entirely different department. Sorta like going to the dirt jump trails in your local town, you don't alter/remold the jumps when your not the original builder unless your given the okay to do so. With Norba now over, that course/trail will see a large amount of work done to it very shortly.....re-routing, grooming, benching, etc. It was simply not our time nor place to do so before the race.

You're right, there is no way to "rake" mud out of the course, but some maintaince of that log drop and those two rutted corners after it could have been done as the weekend progressed. Truth be known my only real complaints were the off-camber section (some type of bench cutting would have gone a long way), the log drop (after Saturday afternoon), and the stupid downed tree just before the 'rock garden'. In the dry, that tree would have been okay, but after all that pedalling, and then going up hill out of those two pots holes in the mud that stupid tree made things miserable.

Again, these issues will be addressed very soon. I know exactly what your talking about, as it's the same issues that kept me from racing this year. I knew the course was going to get blown out and my skills and fitness aren't up to my liking just yet this season, so I opted out. In dry weather, I think this course would be pretty fun.

I am sorry but I don't take weather as an excuse. You know its going to rain this time of year and blasting that many riders down a new trail that lacks good trail building techniques in sections is asking for complaints.

I'm not using weather as an excuse, but simply trying to reinforce the magnitude of what weather can do to a course. Again, I wasn't able to give my input on the course and don't know exactly what was taken into consideration when it was built. The issues are going to be addressed though. New trails/courses will be cut very soon, which should allow plenty of time for the trails to become "ridden in" and potential problems to be found sooner rather than later.

Thanks for listening. Unfortunately the guys who built the trail aren't hearing these concerns. Fortunately, it sounds like the right guys (hulk and Company) have the right attitude and are going to do something about it. See complaining isn't always bad.

 

[spoke80]

I quote Lil John:

"YEAH!"

 

[SCARY]

I may be a desert rat,but that course was pretty stupid in its layout.This was my 3rd and last time@ Snowshoe.Up until Idaho, this was my favorite course.I was hoping they were gonna take their previous course and make it harder.That was Snowshoes reputation before last week.Now it looked like the "pro" women got ahold of somebody on a conference call,at a coordinated time of the month to "help" with the layout.Ladies,let the men do what we do best and I'll still let you kick my ass on it.(I'll spot you a minute.)

 

[bizutch]

I may be a desert rat,but that course was pretty stupid in its layout.This was my 3rd and last time@ Snowshoe.Up until Idaho, this was my favorite course.I was hoping they were gonna take their previous course and make it harder.That was Snowshoes reputation before last week.Now it looked like the "pro" women got ahold of somebody on a conference call,at a coordinated time of the month to "help" with the layout.Ladies,let the men do what we do best and I'll still let you kick my ass on it.(I'll spot you a minute.)

man,....you saw me at the start line...I had given up before we ever left the gate. :mumble:

If you had seen me in the flat muddy section, you would have had a laugh. It was as if I left my body,standing there shaking my head at myself. I didn't even try to pedal I was so beaten. Don't get me wrong, I liked the course when I wasn't falling. Saddest part is that my race run was my cleanest run but my heart was in my left eardrum after that flat stuff.....I gave up....

I'm trying to get a cheap flight up to Mt. Snow for tonight but I can't find one...cheapest is like $400.00

aren't you and JP up there right now? how are oyu online?

 

[profro]

JP didn't go to Mt. Snow.

 

[profro]

I may be a desert rat,but that course was pretty stupid in its layout.This was my 3rd and last time@ Snowshoe.Up until Idaho, this was my favorite course.I was hoping they were gonna take their previous course and make it harder.That was Snowshoes reputation before last week.Now it looked like the "pro" women got ahold of somebody on a conference call,at a coordinated time of the month to "help" with the layout.Ladies,let the men do what we do best and I'll still let you kick my ass on it.(I'll spot you a minute.)

Is this Scary Larry? You must tell me NOW!

 

[SCARY]

Of co-orse Et Is.Now get back tooo woook NOW!!

 

[profro]

Of co-orse Et Is.Now get back tooo woook NOW!!

No, I refuse to work NOW. I am thinking of riding too much. When are you going to Schweitzer? I think I'm going to go NOW. Maybe we could get a rental car together or something if you're flying.

 

[SCARY]

man,....you saw me at the start line...I had given up before we ever left the gate. :mumble:

If you had seen me in the flat muddy section, you would have had a laugh. It was as if I left my body,standing there shaking my head at myself. I didn't even try to pedal I was so beaten. Don't get me wrong, I liked the course when I wasn't falling. Saddest part is that my race run was my cleanest run but my heart was in my left eardrum after that flat stuff.....I gave up....

I'm trying to get a cheap flight up to Mt. Snow for tonight but I can't find one...cheapest is like $400.00

aren't you and JP up there right now? how are oyu online?

If you would have seen ME in the mud section you would have seen me get passed AND come to a complete stop right before the rock corner.I was Ok with my result considering the wreck on the hip jump,the stop,couldn't get out of 6th gear after the lower tree section, and the flat after the log jump.I did repass the guy who passed me though,that was cool enough.I hope 5 weeks is enough time for a lung transplant to heel before Idaho.You better be there Butch.It's a slo-pro show down.And I'm callin you out. neaky:

 

[SCARY]

No, I refuse to work NOW. I am thinking of riding too much. When are you going to Schweitzer? I think I'm going to go NOW. Maybe we could get a rental car together or something if you're flying.

I tink I am getting a hooking up fowah Schvite-zah .I am not showah yet.Now i have wook............I have Foes product to pay fowah.NOW ,GET DOWN!

 

[Velocity Girl]

I may be a desert rat,but that course was pretty stupid in its layout.This was my 3rd and last time@ Snowshoe.Up until Idaho, this was my favorite course.I was hoping they were gonna take their previous course and make it harder.That was Snowshoes reputation before last week.Now it looked like the "pro" women got ahold of somebody on a conference call,at a coordinated time of the month to "help" with the layout.Ladies,let the men do what we do best and I'll still let you kick my ass on it.(I'll spot you a minute.)

I'm really hoping you're using "women" and "ladies" in that statement to refer to anyone of either gender who whine that courses are too hard????

 

[spoke80]

Is this Scary Larry? You must tell me NOW!

You must replace all the bearings in or around your bike ! If you want to live!
What up Scary! murder anyone yet?

Peas,
Ben

Sarakate says hello

 

[bizutch]

OK...I'm formulating a plan for schweitzer....if I go I need a place to stay...who's got the 411 on where to fly into? If I can snag a flight for $2-3bills I'm out.

I just got word from Jeremy that Mt. Snow is the course from 2 years ago and that there are a ton of people freaked out scared over it. He said the weather is good and the course is in good condition. Said he's gotten through yard sale plenty but that the masses (experts) are terrified of it. I am so pissed that I didn't get to go.

 

[spoke80]

Man the powerball drawing is tomorrow (38 million) and if I win I will hire all the boys to do the rest of the nationals!

Butch tell JR I said good luck!

 

[heikkihall]

I agree, I was not impressed with snowshoe this year. In past years it has been awesome, even in the rain. this year made me actually dread having to get up in the morning to ride my bike. That mountain has so much potential but that course was more or less terrible.

 

[John P.]

Coming from the U.S. Open event I expected alot more out of Snowshoe..They guys at the US Open turned a muddy course into a dry epic course.....was near World Cup conditions, if not better..Needless to say the course at Snowshoe was a huge huge letdown...

It's not really fair to compare the US Open to Snowshoe. The guys at Mountain Creek had ONE course to maintain - the DH course ridden by the pros and amateurs. At Snowshoe, they had at least 7 courses to maintain: Pro/Expert DH, Sport DH, MTX, Short course XC, long course XC, Marathon XC, and Super D (although that intersected both DH courses). They can't very well favor one discipline over another, and they'd need an army of thousands to maintain and upkeep ALL of those trails with that much rain.

I had a good time at Snowshoe - I rode poorly, but it was still fun.

--JP

 

[profro]

It's not really fair to compare the US Open to Snowshoe. The guys at Snowshoe had ONE course to maintain - the DH course ridden by the pros and amateurs. At Snowshoe, they had at least 7 courses to maintain: Pro/Expert DH, Sport DH, MTX, Short course XC, long course XC, Marathon XC, and Super D (although that intersected both DH courses). They can't very well favor one discipline over another, and they'd need an army of thousands to maintain and upkeep ALL of those trails with that much rain.

I had a good time at Snowshoe - I rode poorly, but it was still fun.

--JP

This can become easier if they involve local riders more.

 

[bizutch]

I'm sorry, but this is beginning to finally push my "piss me off" button. Everyone seems to forget that we are still a sport in it's infancy. People are ungrateful that they have a place like Snowshoe to ride. If they don't cut a new course, you bitch that you're tired of the current one...or bitch that they need to make changes tot he current one...
or you whine that they made a flat section...
or that you had to pedal...
or it was too steep...
too off camber...
not bench cut....
too many fireroads...
too much mud...
not enough rocks...
too many rocks...
too long....
too high speed....
too narrow....
too burly....
too easy...


Everyone quit with your pissing and moaning....unless you personally stood on it, built it with your own hands and you own it or are responsible for it's layout...you CANNOT whine about a course!!!

Each and every one of us needs to shut up with the complaints and just ride your fricking bike down it....whatever it is. If you can't ride it....consider it a challenge and try to ride it...learn...adapt...work on your weakness....stop blaming a course for your negative attitude...or lack of skill. If you can't sprint in mud....train. If you can't ride off camber...learn how...if you can't go up and over a log jump with a foot deep rut....try harder.....if you can't bunny hop over a log on flat ground and carry speed through the rock garden afterwards....push back upa nd try it again.

Seriously...stop whining. It was a trail in the woods. That's all.

 

[Echo]

its because the west cost guys couldn’t handle the course

Haha, I just saw that comment, didn't Sanjay (west coast) win semi-pro?

 

[mobius]

Yup sanjay is dominating the east coast too.