[thespackler]

First off, let me start by saying that I realize Snowshoe had no control over the mud situation...

But what the hell was with that long flat section? Why would you build a course for a national that had a section like that when you KNOW that your mountain is prone to wet conditions? This course was lacking big time....Where was the maintenance? Where was the thought? Coming from the U.S. Open event I expected alot more out of Snowshoe..They guys at the US Open turned a muddy course into a dry epic course.....was near World Cup conditions, if not better..Needless to say the course at Snowshoe was a huge huge letdown...

On another note? They really need to stop hyping up their alleged "freeride park'.....Whats the deal with all those really wide bridges that dont serve any purpose? I mean come on! I think they really need to develop a solid DH trail network before they start building these useless stunts. BRIDGES THAT SERVE NO PURPOSE ARE LAME!!!!! Isnt snowshoe owned by the same people that own diablo? How is that Diablo could be sooo sick and Snowshoe could be an overhyped jungle gym?

 

[ska todd]

Isnt snowshoe owned by the same people that own diablo? How is that Diablo could be sooo sick and Snowshoe could be an overhyped jungle gym?

I wasn't at WV this year so I won't comment on any of that.

While Mtn Creek, Snow Shoe, & Whistler are both owned by Intrawest, Diablo operates as an indepedent business. Diablo has as much control over what gets built at Snowshoe as what they do at Whistler: ZERO%!!

A lot of the reason behind the quality of the course and the event at the US Open is because Shawn and his Diablo crew run the entire event from scratch. There is no outside interference from Norba/USA Cycling/UCI, Team Big Bear, etc. He can run the show exactly how he wants it.

-ska todd

 

[Transcend]

I wasn't at WV this year so I won't comment on any of that.

While Mtn Creek, Snow Shoe, & Whistler are both owned by Intrawest, Diablo operates as an indepedent business. Diablo has as much control over what gets built at Snowshoe as what they do at Whistler: ZERO%!!

A lot of the reason behind the quality of the course and the event at the US Open is because Shawn and his Diablo crew run the entire event from scratch. There is no outside interference from Norba/USA Cycling/UCI, Team Big Bear, etc. He can run the show exactly how he wants it.

-ska todd

First let me say i agree with the flat section hype. it blows ass.

As for the diablo stuff, can clay and shawn do all the nationals from here on out?

 

[Jeremy R]

Woah, looks like somebody has not had a chance to pressure wash the mud out of their crotch yet.

When you hop in your car and head to Snowshoe, you should know what you are in for. Its not a secret.
Its going to be a straight-up mud fest. Its gonna be super tough, and something you have to be mentally and physically ready for.
I think they take some kind of sadistic pleasure in making in that way.

I was at the US Open and it was indeed awesome. Well worth the trip and the entry fee. It was probaly the most well ran event that I have been a part of. And it was cool how they groomed the course between practices, but how in the he11 can you expect Snowshoe to groom that. Maybe if they a bought a giant tarp, and covered the whole mountain, but other than that there not enough turd polish in the world to shine that thing up.

You just gotta race the course in front of you, and then decide if you are gonna come back next year.
I think it is cool to have such diverse National events with each course being alot different than the other.
Maybe if Snowshoe builds next year's course right now, it will be ready for next June.

 

[thespackler]

I never expected the snowshoe course to be well-groomed after the rain. I question the design of the course, the flat section, the lack of waterbars to let the course drain, the lack of maintenance and the lack of communication and coordination. I didnt see one person maintaining any part of that course. Mud will be mud, but loose boulders, race tape all over the place is unacceptable.

 

[bizutch]

last years course had 2 flat sections too but nobody complained about it because they could get through the rest of teh course because it was the width of a parked car. This year's course was super steep, ultra narrow, majorly off camber and just flat out SUPER TECHNICAL. Everybody is pissy about the flat middle section because they don't want to admit they actually SUCKED on the other 90% of the course.

As far as grooming....seriously, you guys need to suck up your lower lip and quit pouting. If you wanted a "groomed or manicured" course....check with your local BMX track...I'm sure you can ride there.

...as for course marking, if you got lost...I'd suggest you wear goggles next time. and I'm sure water bars on a 60% pitch would have kept it so much drier :eviltongu

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Woah, looks like somebody has not had a chance to pressure wash the mud out of their crotch yet.

I don't even race, much less race DH and that is what I was thinking.

The Spackler may have some legit complaints about course design I have no idea. What I do know is you should be kissing A$$ as a MTBer for what is being done at SnowShoe. I do not care how lame you think any particular trail or stunt is. Try looking at the whole picture. They are opening trails, stunts, 4x's courses and actively trying to do GOOD things for the MTB population. Sure eventually it will be about the bottom line for them, but who else is stepping up and making such an effort? There are a few out there, and you should be thanking every single mountain resort that opens its lifts and property to MTBers, much less one that is building stuff SPECIFICALLY for mountain biking.

I can't wait to be complaining about how muddy I am going to be in August.

 

[Transcend]

I don't even race, much less race DH and that is what I was thinking.

The Spackler may have some legit complaints about course design I have no idea. What I do know is you should be kissing A$$ as a MTBer for what is being done at SnowShoe. I do not care how lame you think any particular trail or stunt is. Try looking at the whole picture. They are opening trails, stunts, 4x's courses and actively trying to do GOOD things for the MTB population. Sure eventually it will be about the bottom line for them, but who else is stepping up and making such an effort? There are a few out there, and you should be thanking every single mountain resort that opens its lifts and property to MTBers, much less one that is building stuff SPECIFICALLY for mountain biking.

I can't wait to be complaining about how muddy I am going to be in August.

Well spackler does have some legit claims about course design. There was NO WAY that section was going to drain if it rained (and rain it did!). On the other hand, it is a race course. Deal with it. If you don't like it don't ride it. The flat section could have been rerouted, and the entire course needed someway to drain (and not into the lower section of the course). But again, it is a race course, so you ride what they give you, it swucked to give them $65 of my money however to ride a freshly cut swamp.

Besides that there was a MAJOR lack of organization going on. No one knew if there would be pro practice sunday, no one knew anything when you asked them. Pretty dissapointing after seeing some NCS events run like clockwork.

I crashed hard in my qualifying run, not enough to really hurt myself, but enough to bum me out. I decided not to ride my finals run on account of i wasn't having any sort of fun anyways trying to stay up. It's all about choice.

 

[thespackler]

last years course had 2 flat sections too but nobody complained about it because they could get through the rest of teh course because it was the width of a parked car. This year's course was super steep, ultra narrow, majorly off camber and just flat out SUPER TECHNICAL. Everybody is pissy about the flat middle section because they don't want to admit they actually SUCKED on the other 90% of the course.

As far as grooming....seriously, you guys need to suck up your lower lip and quit pouting. If you wanted a "groomed or manicured" course....check with your local BMX track...I'm sure you can ride there.

...as for course marking, if you got lost...I'd suggest you wear goggles next time. and I'm sure water bars on a 60% pitch would have kept it so much drier :eviltongu

Face it...Check other threads and other websites with message boards and other people are saying the same thing...That course was not up to par for a course at the national level....Even when it was dry. lastly, what sections where you calling "super technical" ? Didnt really see anything that tech.

Grooming? Grooming means...removing large boulders that are in the main line because the course wasnt designed correctly. Boulders should not be falling out of rock gardens during a national event.

Regarding course marking...I could see fine....And what i saw was race tape all over the ground with noone that cared enough to pick it up. Not very professional at all.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I don’t know what the point of this rant is, you guys are out of your minds if you did not expect to experience mud at snowshoe in June. And you should know that if you have been there the past years they have held the race. Yeah there was that one freak year that it was dry but that isn’t normal. That summer was a total draught. When they held the first race the conditions were almost identical (rainy mud fest). I rode the coarse 2 weeks ago and thought it was great as soon as it would dry out a bit. As for the flat spot, I know it kind of sucked but given the topography of the area they really didn’t have a choice. They ran the course there because it had to flow to the other sections. The organizers have no control over the weather. But norba has control over the scheduling. Talking to some of the officials at snowshoe over the weekend they had seemed to be trying to get the race in august which would make sense because it rocks that time of year.

And what is with the bltching about the freeride park. The bridges in there rock, i spent a couple weekends riding them. I dont understand any degree of criticism in this area at all. They did one hell of a job using natural features such as rock and drops to incorporate killer stunts. And they have over double planned for the end of the summer. I just don’t understand this type of attitude towards a progressive resort on the east coast. comments like "BRIDGES THAT SERVE NO PURPOSE ARE LAME" saying something like that is ridiculous. What exactly is it that you would like to see beyond what is already built? Is the teeter totter necessary? Of course not but its fun...What is next complain about routing the DH course over rocks. The whole purpose is to create fun challenging things to ride. They admitted the initial bridges were going to be wider and easier to ride and promised that the park will "grow with the riders". That in my opinion is keeping the riders in mind. Nobody other than Diablo is stepping it up and doing what the west coast has been doing for years. It is about time Snowshoe did something like this.

 

[DamienC]

And what is with the bltching about the freeride park. The bridges in there rock, i spent a couple weekends riding them. I dont understand any degree of criticism in this area at all. They did one hell of a job using natural features such as rock and drops to incorporate killer stunts. And they have over double planned for the end of the summer. I just don’t understand this type of attitude towards a progressive resort on the east coast. comments like "BRIDGES THAT SERVE NO PURPOSE ARE LAME" saying something like that is ridiculous. What exactly is it that you would like to see beyond what is already built? Is the teeter totter necessary? Of course not but its fun...What is next complain about routing the DH course over rocks. The whole purpose is to create fun challenging things to ride. They admitted the initial bridges were going to be wider and easier to ride and promised that the park will "grow with the riders". That in my opinion is keeping the riders in mind. Nobody other than Diablo is stepping it up and doing what the west coast has been doing for years. It is about time Snowshoe did something like this.

Well said.

Many bridges in the freeride park span natural springs on that side of the mountain which may have been difficult to notice if the entire trail is muddy.

 

[thespackler]

Well said.

Many bridges in the freeride park span natural springs on that side of the mountain which may have been difficult to notice if the entire trail is muddy.

And there are many that are pointless. I rode many bridges that were serving no purpose whatsoever spanning completely dry, non technical ground. You can definately tell snowshoe was in a rush and just wanted to throw up some lumber and call it a 'stunt'.

I am all for resorts being progessive. What I am strongly against is when i receive a maling from Snowhoe Resort stating that they are the "the east coasts only real freeride park' and 'whistler of the east'. I trusted their marketing and was completely dissappointed upon my arrival. its one thing to be progressive, its another to flat-out lie to people to get you to their resort.

 

[bizutch]

Face it...Check other threads and other websites with message boards and other people are saying the same thing...That course was not up to par for a course at the national level....Even when it was dry. lastly, what sections where you calling "super technical" ? Didnt really see anything that tech.

Grooming? Grooming means...removing large boulders that are in the main line because the course wasnt designed correctly. Boulders should not be falling out of rock gardens during a national event.

Regarding course marking...I could see fine....And what i saw was race tape all over the ground with noone that cared enough to pick it up. Not very professional at all.

Dude...you sure you're on the right planet? Ummm...super technical would be the majorly off camber steeps and 90 degree switchbacks that demoralized so many people who weren't able to ride it clean.

Grooming of boulders...you're kidding right? Boulders falling out of courses at nationals is what happens when a couple hundred Dh'ers ride....get a clue.

As for race tape on the ground....why the heck do you care if they pick it up during your run or after the event. That mountain is the most trash free ski resort I've been to. If you thought it laying trail side was so bad, you should have grabbed a broom, a rake, and some trash bags and put your manicured, pampered little tooshie to work grooming and shaping.

 

[thespackler]

Dude...you sure you're on the right planet? Ummm...super technical would be the majorly off camber steeps and 90 degree switchbacks that demoralized so many people who weren't able to ride it clean.

Grooming of boulders...you're kidding right? Boulders falling out of courses at nationals is what happens when a couple hundred Dh'ers ride....get a clue.

As for race tape on the ground....why the heck do you care if they pick it up during your run or after the event. That mountain is the most trash free ski resort I've been to. If you thought it laying trail side was so bad, you should have grabbed a broom, a rake, and some trash bags and put your manicured, pampered little tooshie to work grooming and shaping.

Well toughguy..Perhaps it was 'super tech' for you...but i didnt think so. The mud was certainly humbling...but the course wasnt a national level course...plain and simple...

When i refer to race tape..I dont care about the littering jackass...I care when there is broken tape blowing across the course and slapping me in the face...This happened on a few sections of the course....Dude, whats with the bitterness? I mean, I am certainly not the only one with similar complaints..so basically, everyone else is wrong? i think not!

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Yeah there was tape on the course its because the west cost guys couldn’t handle the course like Mike King and Tara LLanes (opted out to race short track xc ). I stood there at the Log drop for most of practice and qualifying and heard everything from wahooooooooo, to f this im not racing. So obviously something was ride able, enough for people and to have fun doing so? This boulder comment has got me laughing as well. I think we should pave the course next year...that way we can alleviate some of the complaining.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I trusted their marketing and was completely dissappointed upon my arrival. its one thing to be progressive, its another to flat-out lie to people to get you to their resort.

What was the lie bro? What is it about people b1tching about bridges over dry areas. Go to whistler if they only put bridges over wet areas there would be nothing there. The point of the free ride park is NOT to make a nice efficient way to get though the woods. It is to give us flowing trails to hit. Who the hell cares if the bridges are needed due to ground conditions or not. It’s not about necessity it’s about FUN. :nuts:

 

[Msisle Dad]

First let me say i agree with the flat section hype. it blows ass.

As for the diablo stuff, can clay and shawn do all the nationals from here on out?

I would vote for Hartlove and crew to build the MTX courses!!

Charles

 

[thespackler]

What was the lie bro?

Well..when the brochure says things like "the east coasts only real freeride park" and "snowshoe is the whistler of the east"...you expect that the freeride park is a little more legit... those are some pretty bold statements especially when both Diablo and Plattekill blow Snowshoe away.

 

[profro]

Yeah in all the DH course bashing, we forgot how awesome the MTNx course was. First class and definately big.

But come on guys, the course was too new and needed to be maintained. Pefect example was the log hit. WTF???? Did some retards build that. Hmmmm... lets pile a bunch of dirt up against this log and see whats happens. Oh it rained and the dirt turned to mud. Do we modify it or fix it as the weekend goes? Nah, lets just see how deepe the rut gets?

Plus you can't take Jeremy's word of it. He's still riding his 2nd place high. Congrats.

 

[Jeremy R]

OMG,
Snowshoe sucks, cuz there was a big rock in the trail on my race run.
Ha ha, weak. Man, when did Dhers turned into such a bunch of whining crybabies. Whah Whah, I had to douch my crevice because of the mud.
People expect groomed bike paths now, Jeez.
Yeah, sure some things could have been done differently. The whole course could have flowed like the bottom section etc. etc...
I think having the race there in August would help as well, when they do not get as much rain, but those were the cards we were dealt.
If you think you can do better, build you up a course and we'll come race it. :devil:

 

[profro]

OMG,
If you think you can do better, build you up a course and we'll come race it. :devil:

We have. :devil:

 

[thespackler]

OMG,
Snowshoe sucks, cuz there was a big rock in the trail on my race run.
Ha ha, weak. Man, when did Dhers turned into such a bunch of whining crybabies. Whah Whah, I had to douch my crevice because of the mud.
People expect groomed bike paths now, Jeez.
Yeah, sure some things could have been done differently. The whole course could have flowed like the bottom section etc. etc...
I think having the race there in August would help as well, when they do not get as much rain, but those were the cards we were dealt.
If you think you can do better, build you up a course and we'll come race it. :devil:

Ive already listed plenty of reasons how snowshoe DROPPED the ball....do i need to spell them out for you? poor course design, nooo maintenance, poor communication, no real cash purse to name a few....i dont expect groomed bike paths..i do expect a course at a national to be built with a little thought put into it.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

OMG,
Snowshoe sucks, cuz there was a big rock in the trail on my race run.
QUOTE]


HAHAHHAHAAH i watched a guy come off the log and front wheel that stump that was there. Then he proceeded to go airborne into a sapling. And he got up with a smile on his face. That is the way DH should be. As for cash purse you should know what the payout is at a national before going, if that is all you are interested in.

 

[Mattoid]

I love it when people just rant and complain.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

i know its awesome

 

[Jeremy R]

We have. :devil:

No Joey has.
If you so much as touch a rock up there, he will hit your hand with a ruler, and give you 2 demerits.
Man, I hope you guys can pull off the 2 races up there!
If not, I will be up to ride anyway!

 

[anarchyUK]

go race XC if you do not like rocks, ruts, and off cammber

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

go race XC if you do not like rocks, ruts, and off cammber

 

[profro]

No Joey has.

Snakerock was built by 2 XC guys that have never built a trail before.

And I have put in plenty of man hours on building trails up there. Yes, Joey is over zealous on those trails, but I think I would rather ride Snakerock over and over before riding this year's Snowshoe course dry.


But I'm going to list what I LIKED aabout this year's course.

-The log/drop thingy under the lift into the right hand turn follwed by the left hand sweeping off-camber turn in the grass.

-The next woods section after the uphill/hip thingy was the best part of the course in my opinion. The drop followed by the left hand turn followed by the steep switch backs, followed by the two long straigh aways. I really liked those sections.

-The woods section just after the open service road after the long flat woods section was awesome. To dive into the woods then sweep the left, then bomb straight into those switch backs even wet was fun.

-The woods section just before the big flat rock drop onto the last ski slope area was fun as well.

-And finally the last woods section was a great way to end a course, fast and flowy. Plus I personally liked to rock drop at the end. I never once went around it and I loved slamming the two rollers after it before hitting the gravel under the finsh line.

 

[Transcend]

The mtnx course was insane. I loved watching it, no way i would race it tho pro. I would get killed trying to keep up for sure.

I think the only thing thatw oudl have made the mtnx course better would have been to tighten the corners to slow it down a bit and add more racing. The semi pro races kicked ass, as they were all the same speed. There is a big disparity between pros however, and I think that slowing the course down would create better racing. All in all a FANTASTIC event. Course was hard and fast, well built, and exciting to watch!

Oh my other gripe is that I am lazy, and it was hard to try and cover the whole course for photos..would have been nice to see the finish form the top! epic.

Last word on the DH course...hold the race in august and it would rock!

 

[Jm_]

It's not allowed to be not-impressed on this site.

 

[Jeremy R]

Snakerock was built by 2 XC guys that have never built a trail before.

And I have put in plenty of man hours on building trails up there. Yes, Joey is over zealous on those trails, but I think I would rather ride Snakerock over and over before riding this year's Snowshoe course dry.


But I'm going to list what I LIKED aabout this year's course.

-The log/drop thingy under the lift into the right hand turn follwed by the left hand sweeping off-camber turn in the grass.

-The next woods section after the uphill/hip thingy was the best part of the course in my opinion. The drop followed by the left hand turn followed by the steep switch backs, followed by the two long straigh aways. I really liked those sections.

-The woods section just after the open service road after the long flat woods section was awesome. To dive into the woods then sweep the left, then bomb straight into those switch backs even wet was fun.

-The woods section just before the big flat rock drop onto the last ski slope area was fun as well.

-And finally the last woods section was a great way to end a course, fast and flowy. Plus I personally liked to rock drop at the end. I never once went around it and I loved slamming the two rollers after it before hitting the gravel under the finsh line.

Ha, that was a joke dude.
I know you guys work up there.
Snakerocks rules. The first couple of times I rode it, I almost crashed because I was looking around at all the work that went into it instead of riding it.

 

[profro]

Ha, that was a joke dude.
I know you guys work up there.
Snakerocks rules. The first couple of times I rode it, I almost crashed because I was looking around at all the work that went into it instead of riding it.

I know. You know the love we share. It goes all the ways back the Mud Puppy days. ink:

I was just trying to say however that it did take Mark and Brian close to 4 months of Saturdays and Sundays to build that trail though. Hard work does pay off. I was disappointed with the course to say the least. I expected a little more from a national. Plus everyone went on and on about how technical last years course was, so I was so amped to ride.

 

[bizutch]

I don't wanna hear whiny crap about that log drop. I saw tons of guys in Pro practice..including myself...get stuck in the muck on the approach...then proceed to one foot it off the top of it.

Any drop you can stop on and push off of...is not a bad drop.... ("wait....do you hear that?......it's the WHHHHHHHAAAAAMMMMMMMBULANCE!!!")
Seriously spackler...are you even capable of riding natural terrain?

And since when are you eligible for cash prizes? )

 

[Transcend]

I don't wanna hear whiny crap about that log drop. I saw tons of guys in Pro practice..including myself...get stuck in the muck on the approach...then proceed to one foot it off the top of it.

Any drop you can stop on and push off of...is not a bad drop.... ("wait....do you hear that?......it's the WHHHHHHHAAAAAMMMMMMMBULANCE!!!")
Seriously spackler...are you even capable of riding natural terrain?

And since when are you eligible for cash prizes? )

You could totally hop off that log..if you could get to the top of it! Saturday it was a huge hole with a log above it, what a friggin mess. Funny to watch guys like EC roll up to it and say, screw this!, and go around.

 

[Jeremy R]

You could totally hop off that log..if you could get to the top of it! Saturday it was a huge hole with a log above it, what a friggin mess. Funny to watch guys like EC roll up to it and say, screw this!, and go around.

Yep, during my race run, I stood on top of it, dropped down and landed on my ass (on purpose), and slid off of it all the while holding onto my bike.
Then I hopped back on and rode off.
It was faster than riding around or crashing trying to hit it.
The course had its issues, but damn, it was an adventure!

 

[Transcend]

Yep, during my race run, I stood on top of it, dropped down and landed on my ass (on purpose), and slid off of it all the while holding onto my bike.
Then I hopped back on and rode off.
It was faster than riding around or crashing trying to hit it.
The course had its issues, but damn, it was an adventure!

I am just waiting on the nice DRY highspeed insanity that is mt snow. No mud tires necessary hopefully..weather says very small chance of rain on sunday..keep your fingers crossed!

 

[Jeremy R]

I am just waiting on the nice DRY highspeed insanity that is mt snow. No mud tires necessary hopefully..weather says very small chance of rain on sunday..keep your fingers crossed!

One can only dream.
Mt. Snow is my favorite!
See ya there.
And I will make I get to meet you this time.

 

[Transcend]

One can only dream.
Mt. Snow is my favorite!
See ya there.
And I will make I get to meet you this time.

It would be my first dry race this year...fo gigure. I am getting fed up with washign my bike and clothes between every damn run. At least mt snow is rideable when it gets wet.

 

[Karpieldisco]

Hey all- I would like to give my .02. First of all- I am sad to say that this year I will not be able to attend either snowshoe or vermont.. Personal situations have limited my amount of racing for this year. ( looking to buy a house). Anyway- There have always been two types of people at nationals. Those that are there to race and know what to expect and those that expect everything to be given to them on a silver platter. We all have courses that we have liked and those that we have not. But what have those of you done to help the cause except for bitch. I personally can say that I know many people have have spent many hours/days working on the trails in question and have taken pride in what was built ( the Freeride park and the Mountain Cross Course) Before you complain that it is not up to "your" standards remember that we as downhillers and freeriders are an abstract breed that the insurance companies do not see eye to eye with.. I have seen resorts close down to cycling because someone got hurt or that the rider was riding out of bounds and still the resort got sued and lost. So please be happy with what is presented to you- if you have suggestions or would like to help- contact the address at snowshoe and they will direct you
to the appropriate people. I am sure that Snowshoe will listen to the masses and do what they can to try to accomidate. They are one of the few resorts in the East that is trying to keep the sport alive.. Lets not ruin this.. They have a great mountain and have listened to our suggestions in the past.. Lets keep things rolling in that direction.

Now for those that did not like the MUD!!! Sorry-- Welcome to the east Mudfest!!! ink: