[santacruzer87]

I was wondering if anybody has any opinions on the Sinister R9. I spend basically all of my time racing DH, any thoughts on whether or not this bike would be a good match for me?


-Ryan

also, with that single pivot design, whats the brake jack like?

 

[bballe336]

a local rider has it. and just looking at the bike you can tell that it is high quality. the welds are amazing and they are all handmade by ftw so you know they will last. they are a great dh race frame having 10 inches of travel so you can really set it up with a lot of sag. they are on the heavy side but its such a solid frame that it shouldn't matter much. and as far as brake jack goes the little bit that i have ridden it i had no problems. also with brake jack this is what i have been told by someone i trust "you will only get brakejack if you are braking too much or braking incorrectly". so thats what i believe and with that philosophy no bike should have too much braking trouble. if you are seriosuly considering buying this frame do not hesitate at all. it is probably the best frame you will ever have.

 

[WheelieMan]

a local rider has it. and just looking at the bike you can tell that it is high quality. the welds are amazing and they are all handmade by ftw so you know they will last. they are a great dh race frame having 10 inches of travel so you can really set it up with a lot of sag. they are on the heavy side but its such a solid frame that it shouldn't matter much. and as far as brake jack goes the little bit that i have ridden it i had no problems. also with brake jack this is what i have been told by someone i trust "you will only get brakejack if you are braking too much or braking incorrectly". so thats what i believe and with that philosophy no bike should have too much braking trouble. if you are seriosuly considering buying this frame do not hesitate at all. it is probably the best frame you will ever have.

Haha, I'm not sure if I agree with that logic. "Incorrect braking"? How do you brake incorrectly? I think I saw in Decline, or some other magazine, that the R9 will be a multi-pivot in the future? That would change the braking characteristics for sure.

The wheelbase seems to be pretty long on those bikes, so they will probably be better suited for fast courses. I assume the "9" in R9 stands for 9 inches of travel?

 

[zahgurim]

I tool around on an R9, see my sig link for a pic. It's Franks 9th dh design, but it does indeed have 9"s as well.

Honestly, the best riding DH frame I've ever wrapped myself around. Go for the Avy upgrade too, it's worth it...the bike just eats rocks and bumps.
The wheelbase is a bit on the long-ish side but you get used to it fast.

Sinister is a top-notch company, and run by good guys.

 

[www.ride-this.com]

the R9 is a great race bike and all around play bike. I use mine to ride Post canyon here in Oregon alot, which is a northshore kinda place and I race all over . I used to have a yeti DH9 so I am used to a long bike but from what I have experienced it is right in there with all the other bikes. Run a shorter stem and you'll be fine. I also recommend if you run a 888 go with the drop crowns. My bike is built up with an avy shock with TI spring and it comes in at just around 43 pounds.
I do run tubeless so I did save a little weight there. The welds and machining are top notch and Frank is a great guy. here at our shop everyone rides an R9, No Joke there are 4 of them built up and 2 DNA hardtails!
The brake jack is a non issue, I have really never noticed any stinkbugging at all or very slightly on occasion. The amazing thing about the bike is when you hop on and point it downhill, in the parking lot it feels terrible but on the trail it rides like butter!
if you have any more questions please email me victor@ride-this.com we should be getting another R9 in stck soon.

here is a pic of my bike

 

[intensified]

No,,, just kiding ,,but you might want to include more info so the RM experts may assist you captain. ..Are you in the sahara or rainforest?are you a 500 pound sumo wrestler?If you are a 500 pound sumo wrestler I hope you have a sense of humor or I will have to result in my famous move of :nuts:

 

[dexter]

well i have been waiting to do a r9 review but here is the short of it. i have ridden a dh9 for the past 4 seasons and never felt comfortable on the bike untill i got my r9. the geo is spot on, the suspension works the way i want it to and all around its a dope bike. i feel much faster, smoother, and all around better on the r9 than any other bike (i have ridden almost every bike in the biz no lie). its not that long (i run a travis and originally a slider + on it). the craftsmanship is top notch and everyone at sinister from david to frank the welder. sinister is comin out with a new suspension design for the r9 but the current is dope and rides awesome. the avy upgrade is worth it trust me i love it more than my rc, pushed rc, or swinger. my bike weights in currently at 39.2 lbs with a solid build. deity cranks, bb with ti spindle, bars, nycfreeride stem, bar end caps (double as odi lock ons), and seat post collar all in chrome (ie heavier than most), tioga dh rims on hadley hubs with revo spokes and alloy nipps, thomson post, slr seat, xo shifter and derailer, hollow pin and link chain, maxxis singlyply proto 2.5 minion and high roller, travis instraict ti, king headset, stans tubeless, avid juicy 7's, dura ace ti casset. with my ti bolt kit for the frame and other parts it weights 38.6

edit: frogot my e13 guide that has been drilled out and machined down (NOT RECOMENDED BY E-13) but saved a few grams

 

[Incubus]

If you're worried about the length of the bike, Sinister came out with a small batch of 'short' version R9s.

 

[zahgurim]

Those short R9's had the same geo/wheelbase, only the toptube was shortened a bit.

 

[dexter]

sorry my post is so hard to read i wrote it last night at 3 am wasted but its all accurate just thrown together ****ty

 

[santacruzer87]

So, is it a step up or a step down from a 2003 Santa Cruz V10

-Ryan

 

[bballe336]

Haha, I'm not sure if I agree with that logic. "Incorrect braking"? How do you brake incorrectly? I think I saw in Decline, or some other magazine, that the R9 will be a multi-pivot in the future? That would change the braking characteristics for sure.

The wheelbase seems to be pretty long on those bikes, so they will probably be better suited for fast courses. I assume the "9" in R9 stands for 9 inches of travel?

well by incorrect braking i mean by doing things like braking in corners rather than before them and things like that. yeah and i was pretty sure it was 10 inches. thats what i was told by the rider. maybe i am just having a brain fart. and that multi-pivot picture in decline was just somethign frank made to see what it would be like. and for the most part i am doubting that it will ever be a production linkage on the bike.

and yes santacruzer it is definatly an update from an 03 v10.

 

[dromond]

Those short R9's had the same geo/wheelbase, only the toptube was shortened a bit.

How exactly could it maintain the same angles and wheelbase but shorten the top tube? Unless they just moved the seat mast forward, I'm pretty sure the wheelbase is shorter as well.

 

[zahgurim]

Moving the seat mast forward a couple inches is exactly what they did, hence the shorter top tube, yet same wheelbase. Did it to shorten up the cockpit for smaller riders. I think Frank only buzzed up about ten of the shorter versions.

 

[SuspectDevice]

I love my R9, my setup is pretty close to Dexter's, But swap a Mojo'd Boxxer for the travis, and SIC and XT cranks for 41lbs. The wheelbase is not at all long when you compare it with any other med-large size frame. Coming off of a Giant DH frame, I am more than happy to have something under me that is put togther a little more robustly. I'm not the biggest braker in the world, but even goon-riding it doesn't extend very much under braking.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Moving the seat mast forward a couple inches is exactly what they did, hence the shorter top tube, yet same wheelbase. Did it to shorten up the cockpit for smaller riders. I think Frank only buzzed up about ten of the shorter versions.

So when you're standing up - 95% of the time on a dh bike - it's exactly the same... what a waste of time.

 

[neversummersnow]

I agree with the above. John P was onto something in saying all DH bikes should be judged by wheelbase and DOWNTUBE measuerments in relation to seat angle. This is what makes a bike "fit".

It's funny there is so much science involved in road/xc fitting but in DH its all guesswork.

I am sure there are biomechanics at work that would make for some sort of scientific DH bike fit that would put the rider in the most control and still allow for a stable bike...

 

[WheelieMan]

So when you're standing up - 95% of the time on a dh bike - it's exactly the same... what a waste of time.

Exactly what I was thinking. Top tube and seattube measurements mean very little on downhill bikes. More manufacturers need to use the downtube measurement for sizing.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

I reckon they just need to come up with some standard measurement. Even DT length isn't 100% accurate because it doesn't take into account BB height (although this is a pretty minor change, I admit). For example, for a given DT length, if the BB was 12" below the bars, the horizontal reach would be less than if the BB was at the same level as the bars (obviously hugely exaggerated comparisons).

You can kind of work it out with 4 measurements though: wheelbase, chainstay length (rear centre), axle to crown length, and head angle. Wheelbase minus chainstay length gives front centre length, front centre minus [axle to crown x cosine of the head angle] gives you the reach. Kind of complex way of doing it though.

 

[WheelieMan]

I reckon they just need to come up with some standard measurement. Even DT length isn't 100% accurate because it doesn't take into account BB height (although this is a pretty minor change, I admit). For example, for a given DT length, if the BB was 12" below the bars, the horizontal reach would be less than if the BB was at the same level as the bars (obviously hugely exaggerated comparisons).

You can kind of work it out with 4 measurements though: wheelbase, chainstay length (rear centre), axle to crown length, and head angle. Wheelbase minus chainstay length gives front centre length, front centre minus [axle to crown x cosine of the head angle] gives you the reach. Kind of complex way of doing it though.

Yeah, and along with all of those measurements, companies need to explain what tires are used to get the bottom bracket height.

 

[ohio]

I reckon they just need to come up with some standard measurement. Even DT length isn't 100% accurate because it doesn't take into account BB height (although this is a pretty minor change, I admit). For example, for a given DT length, if the BB was 12" below the bars, the horizontal reach would be less than if the BB was at the same level as the bars (obviously hugely exaggerated comparisons).

Uh, downtube measurement isn't the horizontal distance... it's a straight line from the center of the bb to the center of the top of of the headtube. Doesn't matter how high the BB is or short the HT is, it's always accurate.

 

[kidwoo]

Uh, downtube measurement isn't the horizontal distance... it's a straight line from the center of the bb to the center of the top of of the headtube. Doesn't matter how high the BB is or short the HT is, it's always accurate.

I think I understand what he's getting at. For a given DT measurement, the higher the BB, the further your arms will be stretched foward. Like he said look at the extreme of the BB being even with the bars.....the DT measurement will be horizontal and hence ALL horizontal reach vs having a sane BB height. Also consider the BB right under the bars for the same distance.....here you'd have NO horizontal reach for the same DT measurement. Either way though you're dealing with the same fixed body size so the sizing would still be accurate.......just swinging around the headtube.

I get his point but I have for years made the DT measurement the first thing I get when looking at a frame I'm interested in. It's still the best single measurement for sizing frames where you ride standing up (DH, DJ segway etc).

 

[in the trees]

Putting this thread back on track:

Any more experiences/opinions of the R9? It's very high on my short list of frames for next season, and I'm interested in feedback.

toby

 

[dexter]

one thing is the bb is super low

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Uh, downtube measurement isn't the horizontal distance... it's a straight line from the center of the bb to the center of the top of of the headtube. Doesn't matter how high the BB is or short the HT is, it's always accurate.

I'm aware of what a downtube is, and thus what a downtube measurement might be

What I'm saying though, is that the height of the bars relative to the BB also changes your body's weight distribution (as well as top tube length). If you had a bike with a really low bb/high bars (assuming bars in general are in a fixed position relative to the headtube) and a short TT, that could give you the same DT length as a bike with a longer TT, lower bars and a higher BB. In that respect, DT length isn't a comprehensive fitment - better than TT since the variations in BB height are typically less than TT variations (and have a tangential component relative to the DT measurement line), but still not as complete as I'd like.

 

[in the trees]

Here's a little local New England sport show segment focusing on Sinister and FTW. Good shots of the R9.

http://bustedspoke.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=14971

toby

 

[mandown]

my bro rocks the sinister. he loves the way it feels for freeride. we just got back from a week in whistler. he doesn't race, so i am not sure what this comment is worth. maybe overtheedge will grace us with a personal statement.

a note on the brake performance. he definitely noticed that the floater would have been helpful in whistler. he commented on it a few times over the week.

 

[santacruzer87]

Wow this thread has derailed. So does anyone have any personal experience with R9s? Their website markets them as DH machines. I was wondering how they compare to other single pivots, say an Orange 223 or maybe a Turner DHR? Is this bike somewhat of an undiscovered race machine or a freeride rig?

My situation: I just ended up on a team that gets screaming deals on R9s but I could probably get a used Turner or used '05 V10 for about the same price. Which one will make my times faster?


-Ryan

 

[Unimog]

The R9 is a very long bike, which is fine if you are close to six feet tall. It is a deceivingly fast bike, you don't realize how fast you are going until you pass someone. The avalanche shock is a very worthwhile upgrade, it makes the bike so plush. The bottom bracket is decently low, but I didn't have any trouble clipping pedals when I tried one.

 

[santacruzer87]

Well, I am 17 years old and 6'1" so Im already pretty tall and probably still got an inch or two left in me. Thanks for the useful info.


-Ryan

 

[Unimog]

The R9 should work great for you, I have a friend about your height who loved the sinister, it fit him perfectly. The long wheelbase allows the bike to ride over a lot of rough terrain that slows other bikes down. The bike does downhill style jumps well, but don't expect to be able to dirt jump or pop off little lips in the trail. In otherwords, it is a great downhill bike that is very fast, but it doesn't really freeride.

 

[mandown]

Wow this thread has derailed. So does anyone have any personal experience with R9s? Their website markets them as DH machines. I was wondering how they compare to other single pivots, say an Orange 223 or maybe a Turner DHR? Is this bike somewhat of an undiscovered race machine or a freeride rig?

My situation: I just ended up on a team that gets screaming deals on R9s but I could probably get a used Turner or used '05 V10 for about the same price. Which one will make my times faster?


-Ryan

sorry for another reply with no personal experience, other than observation. the r9 is a well made rig. sinister definitely can engineer a bike. my bud loves the way his rides for freeride. he is not a racer, so that leaves a gap between what i have to say and what you want to hear. i have done the parking-lot-test on the bike and i liked the feel of it (i am on a bb7 for comparison).

i have other buds who run turner dhrs as their team bikes. they rip and rail everything (race and freeride). again, i have never been on the dhr. however i was present when a well known pro took a run on my bud's dhr. at the end of the run the pro had nothing to say but "whoa." he was very impressed (in a good way) by the way the dhr handled, you could see in the look on his face. i have never heard a bad word about the turners from anybody who rides them (sponsor or no sponsor). as for the 223, i think its record speaks for its ability.

you won't go wrong with the sinister. it will be a good bike. however, from what i have seen with my eyes - i would lean toward a dhr if i was in the market for a race rig. ok, i would go with the 223, but only because it is a dead sexy bike.

 

[Alex966]

I've been sponsored by Sinister for the past couple months, and I'm about to get the R9 as my race bike. Everyone that i have talked to, whom has either ridden it or known someone who has ridden it has said that it is plush, fast, stable and very nice!

 

[dromond]

I've been sponsored by Sinister for the past couple months, and I'm about to get the R9 as my race bike. Everyone that i have talked to, whom has either ridden it or known someone who has ridden it has said that it is plush, fast, stable and very nice!

Well thank you for your first-hand knowledge and unbiased opinion

 

[Bullitboyz]

here's a pic of mine when i was putting it together..

I had a 'raw' frame before this one with the shorter top tube... it IS noticeable only in that the seat is a reference point and when it's forward or rearward it can change the maneuverablity of the bike..
(im 6' tall) but overall it's not a critical issue unless you're really short.

the bike absolutely SMOKES.. I've raced it at Ragged Mtn DH and Tenney DH as well as Mt Snow, also just played at Mountain Creek.
it flies straight and neutral and absolutely BOMBS the steeps and rock piles. (the fork doesn't hurt either)

you really can't go wrong with the company too. I know others have said it, but you won't find a more dedicated group of 'good guys' in the business, totally into their product and happy to help and talk about it all..

 

[MTNPSYCHO]

the R9 is a great race bike and all around play bike. I use mine to ride Post canyon here in Oregon alot, which is a northshore kinda place and I race all over . I used to have a yeti DH9 so I am used to a long bike but from what I have experienced it is right in there with all the other bikes. Run a shorter stem and you'll be fine. I also recommend if you run a 888 go with the drop crowns. My bike is built up with an avy shock with TI spring and it comes in at just around 43 pounds.
I do run tubeless so I did save a little weight there. The welds and machining are top notch and Frank is a great guy. here at our shop everyone rides an R9, No Joke there are 4 of them built up and 2 DNA hardtails!
The brake jack is a non issue, I have really never noticed any stinkbugging at all or very slightly on occasion. The amazing thing about the bike is when you hop on and point it downhill, in the parking lot it feels terrible but on the trail it rides like butter!
if you have any more questions please email me victor@ride-this.com we should be getting another R9 in stck soon.

here is a pic of my bike

Damn, that thing looks nice in blue....hadnt seen that before....Where are you at that the whole shop has R9's???? S Cali? Or Northeast? Im in the northeast, and actually rode at BowRidge yesterday(where the Sinister Ridge was designed/tested/named after)......bad news is that now BowRidge has a large house on it, and all the surrounding trails/rocks/drops are gone and there is now little kid pools and bmw's where there used to mtb bliss....

 

[MTNPSYCHO]

Wow this thread has derailed. So does anyone have any personal experience with R9s? Their website markets them as DH machines. I was wondering how they compare to other single pivots, say an Orange 223 or maybe a Turner DHR? Is this bike somewhat of an undiscovered race machine or a freeride rig?

My situation: I just ended up on a team that gets screaming deals on R9s but I could probably get a used Turner or used '05 V10 for about the same price. Which one will make my times faster?


-Ryan

So a used v10 or a used turner or a new R9?????....I would think that answer would be pretty easy, I would think if you can afford to buy new, thats the way to go....that r9 would probably last 3-4 years of racing, and Im pretty sure it could be ridden just as fast as those other rigs....I love santacruz but I have seen lots of those v10's have issues with the 358 moving parts in the rear end.....dont know much about turner, except dawn bourque raced one and absolutely hauled ass on it....
Anyways, go for the r9, especially if its a brandy new one...

 

[thaflyinfatman]

I love santacruz but I have seen lots of those v10's have issues with the 358 moving parts in the rear end

Don't kid yourself. V10s have EXACTLY THE SAME NUMBER of moving parts as an R9, a Turner, or any bike with a linkage (DW-link, FSR, linkage-driven singlepivots, Lawwills, whatever).

 

[Red Bull]

I rode Rob's R9 at Killington a few weeks back and was amazed. It was set up with an 888, and an Avy. If you dont know Killington personally, its mostly just super fast, with a few techy sections. I honestly just felt so much faster on it than my Demo 9, with a DH 40 and the works. The only comment i could ever make would be maybe an inch shorter CS, or a 1/2 or degree steeper HA to make it a little more nimble in the tight stuff.

 

[punkassean]

We had an R9 demo bike here at the shop up until a few weeks ago. That thing was really nice. The construction was SOLID and the geometry was really nice as well. I believe the '06 will have a small link behind the BB that controls the shock kinda like a Cortina DH-8 or similar.

-Santa Cruzer if you decide on an R9 PM me and I'll work you out a sweet deal on a complete or just a frame...