[davep]

Ok so I am well versed in mich the DH tires, but what the F is up with all of the 'all mt' tires? Mountain, All mountain, mountain extreme, xcr a/t, xcr extreme..and what are the differences? The descriptions are full of a bunch of VERY french marketing crap, like "it's a beast...with an appetite for speed...ideal for full suspension bikes." and ..a tire that loves adrenalin..

There is no true description of the tire at all... durometer, dual ply or single, dual compound or not, terrain designation, sedewall insert.

So I need a few tires (2.2 - 2.5 ish) for all mt type riding. Versatile enough to ride a little of everything from trails, to jump park, to goofing at the BMX track. Terrian here is almost always loose-ish with some organic matter. We get a little dry in the midle of summer, but nore often, it isLots of wet roots and rocks, so i would like a sticky-ish front. Durability is not an issue and i woulld rather have good traction than low rolling resistance..

Any ideas?
Or should i just buy some high rollers that i can get in 1000 different configurations and sizes?

 

[DIRTWRKS]

Just stick with Maxxis.............. I gave up on Michelin , weak sidewalls, prone to pinch flats, knobs falling off after a day of riding and higher pricing were what I experianced over the last few years.

 

[MikeD]

Kenda Nevegal 2.3? Great in the loose, great selections of durometer/weight. The Blue Grooves are going to be better on hardpack, and are often used in conjunction with the Nevegal. I've actually found I prefer the Nevegal up front if things are deep/loose, though. Wouldn't want them at the BMX track...but I can't think of any tire that I'd want for really loose stuff that would double well on groomed ultra-hard packed track.

 

[dirtydirtysouf]

check out the cont. vertical pro 2.3 in tubless.......

 

[SuspectDevice]

Just stick with Maxxis.............. I gave up on Michelin , weak sidewalls, prone to pinch flats, knobs falling off after a day of riding and higher pricing were what I experianced over the last few years.

Michelin are a few bucks cheaper than Maxxis in the US. The only rubber problems I encouter with michelins are DH tires that have sat around in a bad atmosphere and "blue" prematurely. This causes the tire to crumble easily.

Michelin has a bunch of revised trail tires that they will be realsing at interbike.... I have always really enjoyed the new AM pattern. It is super drifty, but controllable.

 

[JRogers]

Michelin are a few bucks cheaper than Maxxis in the US. The only rubber problems I encouter with michelins are DH tires that have sat around in a bad atmosphere and "blue" prematurely. This causes the tire to crumble easily.

Michelin has a bunch of revised trail tires that they will be realsing at interbike.... I have always really enjoyed the new AM pattern. It is super drifty, but controllable.

That's been my experience. The new All Mountain tires worked very well for me. Good size, good traction and fast rolling. The only problem I found with them is that they do not last long if you ride on hardpack trails. I rode them mostly in NJ and VT...when I went to Colorado they started to fall apart. That was the UST version, though, so I'm not sure if the regular is any better.

Do you need/want UST?

 

[bizutch]

Send a PM to BKQuill on here and he can help you out. He works for Michelin. He knows the tires.

For what you are talking about, if traction is the key and you ride loam in Seattle, get the 2.2 Michelin All Mtn 2.2 60TPI. Soft compound with underlying hard compound to prevent excess flex. Fast rolling with good bite.

For aggresive stuff, I'd use what I use now which is the Mountain Xtrem. This is the one you would want to use:
26X2,20 / Tubeless / 33TPI / 1075g / gray+black / SW / FB

Grey compound, soft outer rubber, firm underlying hard compound. I love the heck out of this tire. It's most like the Comp24 2.2 DH.

But to be honest, if you're gonna go the most aggressive...just do what I usually wind up doing and getting a set of Comp 24 DH in 2.2 casing and run XC tubes. You'll be so happy you can pooh yourself. If you say crap about weight of them...you're posting this stuff in the wrong forum.

 

[FCLinder]

Ok so I am well versed in mich the DH tires, but what the F is up with all of the 'all mt' tires? Mountain, All mountain, mountain extreme, xcr a/t, xcr extreme..and what are the differences? The descriptions are full of a bunch of VERY french marketing crap, like "it's a beast...with an appetite for speed...ideal for full suspension bikes." and ..a tire that loves adrenalin..

There is no true description of the tire at all... durometer, dual ply or single, dual compound or not, terrain designation, sedewall insert.

So I need a few tires (2.2 - 2.5 ish) for all mt type riding. Versatile enough to ride a little of everything from trails, to jump park, to goofing at the BMX track. Terrian here is almost always loose-ish with some organic matter. We get a little dry in the midle of summer, but nore often, it isLots of wet roots and rocks, so i would like a sticky-ish front. Durability is not an issue and i woulld rather have good traction than low rolling resistance..

Any ideas?
Or should i just buy some high rollers that i can get in 1000 different configurations and sizes?

Just get a set of the Comp 24s. This will be a great all around tire for you. You can run them tubeless if you want.

The All Mountain tires are good tires. They had some problems with a few batches of tires though. Michelin has fixed the problem. Must of us only run them for 4X and DS and not for trail riding. They are lighter and help us get more snap out of the gate. You will not see a durometer on Michelin tires. Michelin tires have a mix of different durometer rubber in them so they can't say the tires are 30, 40, or 50 durometer. Les confusion if you ask me. Not to knock on any other brand out there, but who wants to keep up with what durometer tire they are running? "The question of the day is should I ride the 30 durometer tires or the 50 durometer tires?" This is one thing I love about Michelin tires. Just put them on and have no problem what so ever.

I would say the Comp 24s are around 30 to 40 durometer. They have all the grip you need for all riding.

In my 8+ years of racing for Michelin and being on their tires I have never cut one of their tires side walls. I don't even think anyone on my old team SEI Racing has ether and we ride on some of the roughest terrain in the South East.

Hope this helps and good luck man. You can't go wrong with Michelin.

Cecil

 

[JRogers]

I'll just throw in one piece of advice: Don't buy Comp 24s. It's my experience that they perform terribly in the wet. Downright scary.

Another option is the Comp 16 2.2. This is one of the best heavy all mountain/freeride tires ever made. They last a long time, roll pretty well and grip like crazy in mixed conditions. Way better than the 24 for wet or intermediate stuff. That's my experience, anyways...

 

[FCLinder]

I'll just throw in one piece of advice: Don't buy Comp 24s. It's my experience that they perform terribly in the wet. Downright scary.

Another option is the Comp 16 2.2. This is one of the best heavy all mountain/freeride tires ever made. They last a long time, roll pretty well and grip like crazy in mixed conditions. Way better than the 24 for wet or intermediate stuff. That's my experience, anyways...

Where are you located? I run mine in the wet all the time and I know there is no other place in the US than the South East to ride in the wet. Yes the Comp 16 is better in the wet, but the 24 is not as bad as you stated.

 

[Certified Drunk]

Just stick with Maxxis.............. I gave up on Michelin , weak sidewalls, prone to pinch flats, knobs falling off after a day of riding and higher pricing were what I experianced over the last few years.

I think you have it backwards! you also forgot that the Maxxis are only good for one week end of riding.

 

[bizutch]

I'll just throw in one piece of advice: Don't buy Comp 24s. It's my experience that they perform terribly in the wet. Downright scary.

Another option is the Comp 16 2.2. This is one of the best heavy all mountain/freeride tires ever made. They last a long time, roll pretty well and grip like crazy in mixed conditions. Way better than the 24 for wet or intermediate stuff. That's my experience, anyways...

you sure you've had your coffee yet?

 

[JRogers]

Where are you located? I run mine in the wet all the time and I know there is no other place in the US than the South East to ride in the wet. Yes the Comp 16 is better in the wet, but the 24 is not as bad as you stated.

I have done most of my riding in NJ and VT, which both get a good amount of rain and snow. I used the 24 for quite a while and it was decent in dry conditions (not my first choice, though) but I had some really scary moments when it got muddy.

People have told me before that it's not that bad in those conditions, but my experience says otherwise. Just giving my opinion.

In any case, I think that that Comp 16 2.2 is better than the 24 for mixed conditions.

 

[Zankou]

I really liked my IRC Mythos XC kevlar 2.1 tires for all mountain on my ht. Great hook up, predictable slide, great braking. Terrible in the wet, but great for street, hardpack, and loose.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

There are things I always think i don't like about the Michelin tires, and yet they always do what i want them to do. The comp 24 performs amazing in loose over hardpack or really fast trails. Cut them if the loose is deep like at Fontana or Infineon or Sea Otter...perfect tire. Any more aggressive and it's the Comp 16 2.2 for intermediate to aggressive and 2.5 for Aggressive to Gnarly. If it's really rocky like Sand Point or Vermont or Mammoth you want the big daddy comp 32 up front. Great tires that have never left me wanting-except in the xc/trail riding side of it. The "all mountain" tire can't handle any real rocky situations. Cut sidewalls, ripped tread, just bad experience after bad experience. Nice tread pattern but no go up here in Auburn.
I lub da michelins for DH though!

 

[SprungShoulders]

Michi Comp16 2.2 front and Comp24 2.2 rear. It's my favorite combo for heavy trail and light "freeride" use here in Utah on a 6x6" bike. The volume is a little too low for hardtail use, IMHO...at least for us old farts.

For me the tires have been great performers, durable, and I've never experienced a sidewall issue amid countless high-speed poundings though sharp, pointy rocks.

The 16 bites hard in the front under all but the hardest of hardpack conditions, where the tallish knobs squirm just a bit; the 24 rolls fast and, IMHO, gets better pedal traction and lasts longer than 16 in the rear.

YMMV. Good luck!

 

[davep]

Send a PM to BKQuill on here and he can help you out. He works for Michelin. He knows the tires.

For what you are talking about, if traction is the key and you ride loam in Seattle, get the 2.2 Michelin All Mtn 2.2 60TPI. Soft compound with underlying hard compound to prevent excess flex. Fast rolling with good bite.

For aggresive stuff, I'd use what I use now which is the Mountain Xtrem. This is the one you would want to use:
26X2,20 / Tubeless / 33TPI / 1075g / gray+black / SW / FB

Grey compound, soft outer rubber, firm underlying hard compound. I love the heck out of this tire. It's most like the Comp24 2.2 DH.

But to be honest, if you're gonna go the most aggressive...just do what I usually wind up doing and getting a set of Comp 24 DH in 2.2 casing and run XC tubes. You'll be so happy you can pooh yourself. If you say crap about weight of them...you're posting this stuff in the wrong forum.

Thanks for the responses, this is what i was looking for.

I have a pile of 24s (cut) and 16s in both 2.5 and 2.2, and will sometimes throw the smaller ones on for a burlier ride. I also have a pair of the 24 lights that are no longer made. (24 tread in a thinner casing and harder compound if anyone did not know).

I run ALL of my tires tubeless (even the lights) without any problem and this is just one reason that I would like to stick to Mich. The 24 tread works great, as i can cut it to what ever I want, but the standard rubber is a little too hard for the slick snot around here.

A 24 light with the DH/sticky rubber (what the 24 light was advertised as) would be my first choice, but it does not seem to exist.

 

[bizutch]

A 24 light with the DH/sticky rubber (what the 24 light was advertised as) would be my first choice, but it does not seem to exist.

Oh it existed. It's just that those of us that got our grubby little hands on it rode them into the ground and snagged up every single one we could get our hands on!

And believe me...me and the guys have made it abundantly clear that we'd like more if they ever reappear. We all had that tire front and rear on all of our trail bikes for about a season and a half.

Also, if you liked that one, there was a steel bead 2.1 HotS but in the DH rubber compound as opposed to the red silicum compound. Now you wanna talk about a root gripper of a tire...but they wore so fast. I still have a near bald one in my shed that taunts me...

 

[davep]

...In my 8+ years of racing for Michelin and being on their tires I have never cut one of their tires side walls. I don't even think anyone on my old team SEI Racing has ether and we ride on some of the roughest terrain in the South East...
Cecil

Thanks for the info.
I am a full suporter of the Mich (on all four of my bikes) and i hear you on the 24's, I will most likely just stick with them, but if there was a thinner sidewall version, well....:biggrin:

For the record, I have cut two sidewalls on the DH tires in the last 5 years. They both happened at the same time when I hit a 8 - 10" granite block going about 40mph on a fire road down from the top of whistler, instant inch long gashes..would have done the same to ANY tire.

I dont really care about the durometer #s per se, I just dont think that the descriptions make it clear, what tires have what features. For example, my 24 lights were sold as a light weight DH tire with sticky rubber. They are NOT. Love the product, but i have a hell of a time figuring out which one i am after with the descriptions (thus this thread)

What is the story with the new tires comming out, some enduro type tires with sidewall reinforcement...??

 

[davep]

I'll just throw in one piece of advice: Don't buy Comp 24s. It's my experience that they perform terribly in the wet. Downright scary.

Another option is the Comp 16 2.2. This is one of the best heavy all mountain/freeride tires ever made. They last a long time, roll pretty well and grip like crazy in mixed conditions. Way better than the 24 for wet or intermediate stuff. That's my experience, anyways...

Thanks for your opinion (not what i asked for though) I have been on the DH tires for 4+ years w/o complaint.
24's have great grip, just a tight tread patern. If they are packing up on you, cut the tread. If the ground is very soft and you want more side bite, move to a 16.

How did my ?s about A.M.

 

[davep]

Oh it existed...
Also, if you liked that one, there was a steel bead 2.1 HotS but in the DH rubber compound as opposed to the red silicum compound. Now you wanna talk about a root gripper of a tire...but they wore so fast. I still have a near bald one in my shed that taunts me...

What is wrong with the crazy Frogs? They have tons of overlap in the A.M. catagory, but they all use the hard rubber. Every other brand has, or is working on, an A.M. tire with a soft compound.

They have the tread, and the compound. They would have great tire if they just put them together..

 

[davep]

Just stick with Maxxis.............. I gave up on Michelin , weak sidewalls, prone to pinch flats, knobs falling off after a day of riding and higher pricing were what I experianced over the last few years.

I understand the pricing thing over there, but in the USA, Mich and Maxxis are the same $. My experience has been the opposite of yours though in terms of durability. The sidewalls are near identical in thickness and stiffnes, infact if I had to choose, I would give the nod to Mich. I have had front tires last a full season of local trails and 30 full days at whistler. I have seen MANY super tacky maxxis tires dead in one day at whistler. All the side knobs smear and tear off, and all the center knobs turn into 'flaps'.

To each his own, and your mileage may vary!

 

[Jeremy R]

Dave,
I just talked to a guy at Michelin who is getting ready for interbike.
They are changing the compound on their 2.2 all mountain tires.
One of them was designed by Prokop. Anyway, the two things they addressed were increasing cornering traction and the chunking of the knobs that happened on the grey compound.
So, for next year, the 2.2 all mountain and the 2.2 all mountain Ex.
should be what you (and me :biggrin: ) are looking for.

 

[davep]

Dave,
I just talked to a guy at Michelin who is getting ready for interbike.
They are changing the compound on their 2.2 all mountain tires.
One of them was designed by Prokop. Anyway, the two things they addressed were increasing cornering traction and the chunking of the knobs that happened on the grey compound.
So, for next year, the 2.2 all mountain and the 2.2 all mountain Ex.
should be what you (and me :biggrin: ) are looking for.

good to hear, i will keep an eye out for them.

 

[FCLinder]

Thanks for the info.
I am a full suporter of the Mich (on all four of my bikes) and i hear you on the 24's, I will most likely just stick with them, but if there was a thinner sidewall version, well....:biggrin:

For the record, I have cut two sidewalls on the DH tires in the last 5 years. They both happened at the same time when I hit a 8 - 10" granite block going about 40mph on a fire road down from the top of whistler, instant inch long gashes..would have done the same to ANY tire.

I dont really care about the durometer #s per se, I just dont think that the descriptions make it clear, what tires have what features. For example, my 24 lights were sold as a light weight DH tire with sticky rubber. They are NOT. Love the product, but i have a hell of a time figuring out which one i am after with the descriptions (thus this thread)

What is the story with the new tires comming out, some enduro type tires with sidewall reinforcement...??

Another tire I use for my All MT bike is the old Wildgripper DH. It is a 2.1" and it grips like a baby does when milking!!!! Its the best grass tire too. I have asked the guys at Michelin to bring it back as well. Doesn't look good though. I got 4 sets this year for DS and 4X. Will get another few sets by year end and feel that will be the last. I will miss the tire a lot!!!! If you can find some grab them and run. You wil love them.

Cecil

 

[rockwool]

Do you guys run your comp 16's in the direction Michelin advises (I think they call it progressive braking) or in the highroller like direction? Their compund was great but side nobs went pretty quick as I remember them.

I liked the tread on the comp 28 but the compound was the same as they make hockey pucks out of. They sucked on wet rocks but was good in half muddy conditions.

The c 24 was a really nice rear tire as long as there was no mud. If you cut it for clearance, what do you do, take some out of every other middle nob?

 

[davep]

Do you guys run your comp 16's in the direction Michelin advises (I think they call it progressive braking) or in the highroller like direction? Their compund was great but side nobs went pretty quick as I remember them.

I liked the tread on the comp 28 but the compound was the same as they make hockey pucks out of. They sucked on wet rocks but was good in half muddy conditions.

The c 24 was a really nice rear tire as long as there was no mud. If you cut it for clearance, what do you do, take some out of every other middle nob?

I run all of my Mich DH tires 'backwards'. As far as I can tell the 16s 24s and 32s (i assume you ment 32 not 28) all use the same (or very close) compound.
The 16 has very tall side knobs and works well in any type of terain that the knobs can sink into (wet and soft, or deep silt). Because of the height of the knobs though, the will fold and squirm and wear fast if ridden on harder terrain.
The most popular cut on the 24 is just to remove the intermediate-shoulder knob (every other one). There is LOTS of info here if you search.. use keywords like Michelin, cut, comp 24 ..etc

 

[rockwool]

Yeah, c32 of course, thanks. I guess mine must have been old and stored bad.. The c24 defenately had a harder compound than the c16. I might give them another try, but this time have more types of tyres for different conditions.

 

[JRogers]

I run all of my Mich DH tires 'backwards'. As far as I can tell the 16s 24s and 32s (i assume you ment 32 not 28) all use the same (or very close) compound.
The 16 has very tall side knobs and works well in any type of terain that the knobs can sink into (wet and soft, or deep silt). Because of the height of the knobs though, the will fold and squirm and wear fast if ridden on harder terrain.

Yeah, I always ran the 16s backwards. The knobs on the 2.2 Comp 16 seem to be shorter, fold less and last longer than its bigger counterpart.

 

[bizutch]

Wow...so many misconceptions and misinformation.

1. All Michelin DH tires are of the exact same compound. So Comp 32, 24, 16 in the 2.2 and 2.5 inch widths...all have the same compound.
2. Comp 16 2.5 is intended for loam and loose soil for better shedding, and deeper bite into soft surfaces. The Comp 16 2.2 is a better intermediate tire, but has less volume. Knobs are spaced tighter and made squarer than the 2.5 version, hence less squirm on firm ground.
3. Comp 24 - Hardpack to intermediate terrain stock. In stages, cuts make it handle loam and grime, roots. Is available in 2.2 and 2.5 with NO difference in tread blocks on either size. To cut, use this thread. It's all you need to know http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105501&highlight=michelin+cut
4. As to a Comp 24 feeling "harder" than a Comp 16. 2.5, it will because the tread blocks on a 24 are spaced tighter, made thicker and are a fraction shorter in height than the 16 in 2.5, hence the knobs have a little less flex...again...same durometer compound rubber.
5. Comp 32...use to mow down stuff you point at. Do NOT expect to make a switchback turn with this tire on the rear of your bike. It will NOT slide...it will grip. Also works insanely good in mud if you groove some slits in the center and intermediate knobs.

 

[bizutch]

6. Comp 16's were originally mislabeled with the directional arrow pointing the wrong way. Was corrected a few years back, but people always ask the question "Do you run it backwards?" Back in the day, a spinmaster said "progressive braking" when the arrow was in the wrong way...he was not to be taken seriously.

Run them the SAME way as a High Roller...basicly, if you're looking down at your front tire while sitting on your bike facing forward, the cutting edge or Braking Edge should be facing you on the top side of the tire.

 

[davep]

6. ... directional arrow pointing the wrong way. Was corrected a few years back, ....

You have said this before, but all the mich's that i ordered at the begining of this summer (new hot patch logo) (24s and 16s in both 2.2 and 2.5) are labeled to run the 'wrong way'. Maybe some runs are labeled differently than others??

Run them the SAME way as a High Roller...basicly, if you're looking down at your front tire while sitting on your bike facing forward, the cutting edge or Braking Edge should be facing you on the top side of the tire.

Agree 100%. this is the way I have always run them. Thanks for the definitive info on rubber compounds. I have argued that point with other people, and I was sure that were all the same, but had never heard it from someone who would know for sure.

 

[driftsrfun]

i saw so many riders with flats this season with michelins and kendas it sucks for them. every race i saw rando and amiel riding down the course with a flat in practice, why mess with any other tire than maxxis seriously, and just run tubless, its great

 

[dhkid]

hmm, dont diss michelin. maxxis aren't very good some times. i myslef, have killed 4 maxxis beads. first on was about a year and a half ago, 2.5 high roller; second one a high roller semi slick, last weekend. thrid and forth, today, front and rear tire. wtf man... the tire is loose on the rim, and cant be mounted properly anymore. and its not the rim, i have tried the tires on other rims are they are loose too.
anyone have trouble with this? my next set of tires will be hutchinsons or michelins..

 

[rockwool]

Thanks for clarifying all that bizutch!

 

[rockwool]

Also, that knob cut on the 2.5 comp 16 works AWESOME for clearing mud.
If you have not seen it yet, you basically cut off about halfway across all the "paddle" knobs on a comp 16. Not only does it clear mud, but it also keeps these knobs from folding over on hardpack cornering.
I used one at Snowshoe and Vermont.

Can anybody explain this or post a picture of cut "paddle" knobs?

 

[dhkid]

acadian posted a pic of it somewhere in one of the huge michelin treads.. i'll try and explane it. there are two sets of center knobs, the smaller sharper ones and the wider paddle knobs. the cut is something like 3mm off the side of the knobs, so that it lines up with the narrower center knob.

 

[SKYWAYBUZZ]

Never tried a cut Comp 16, I like it the way it is, but I did the 1st. modification on a rear Comp24 I have. Opens the tread for better penetration in looser, wetter conditions. Although the Comp 24 would be the last tire for mud. Thats were the Comp 16 dominates!

 

[bizutch]

Never tried a cut Comp 16, I like it the way it is, but I did the 1st. modification on a rear Comp24 I have. Opens the tread for better penetration in looser, wetter conditions. Although the Comp 24 would be the last tire for mud. Thats were the Comp 16 dominates!

Side note on the Comp 24. If you're a budget minded rider who can't go buying 16's and 24's and you ride in intermediate to hardpack most times, the Comp 24 can be converted to wet conditions with a few simple snips.

1. Take the intermediate knob out. (See link I posted on previous page).
2. Cut a slice in the siping knobs (the knob that looks like an equal sign) so that it goes from looking like this "=" to this "= =".
3. Then slice a cut in the center paddle knob the same way.
4. Cut half off of every other side outside knob to open it up for turns.

As for Michelin's flatting more than Maxxis, that's crap. What you might not realize about Rando and Cavalier is they're doing all sorts of fun stuff inside their rims to see what they can get away with on courses. XC tubes and the like. They try a lot of quirky things out in practice...but you never see Rando come across with a flat in his final.

I'll never bag on Maxxis tires. But I'm a firm believer in Michelin tires. I've had both as sponsors at one point or another.