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Gun Control

$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
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^^^^ that's a piping hot steaming pile of stupid right there.

http://www.policeone.com/news/6188462-PoliceOnes-2013-Gun-Policy-Law-Enforcement-Survey-Results-Executive-Summary/

• Asked if a federal ban on magazines holding more than 10 rounds would reduce violent crime, only 2.7% said yes, to 95.7% no.

• Only 7.6% thought a ban on so-called assault weapons would reduce violent crime; 71% thought it wouldn't help, and 20.5% thought it would aggravate the problem.

• On the more general question of what effect the White House's suite of gun restrictions would have on the safety of police officers, only 11.6% said it would help; 60.6% thought it would have no effect, and 24.6% thought it would make cops less safe.

• Asked what the likely outcome would have been at Aurora and Newtown had a legally armed civilian been on the scene, 80% said it would have meant fewer casualties and 6.2% said it would have prevented casualties altogether. Only 5.5% said it would have led to greater loss of life.

• Asked which measure would help most in preventing large-scale public shootings, a plurality (28.8%) said more-permissive concealed-carry policies for civilians. The second and third choices were also not on the Obama agenda: more-aggressive institutionalization of the mentally ill (19.6%) and more armed guards (15.8%). Only then do we get improved background screening for gun purchasers, (14%), followed by longer prison terms for gun-related violent crimes (7.9%). Bringing up the rear were tighter limits on weapons sales (1.5%) and legislative restrictions on "assault weapons" and magazines (0.9%).
 
dante

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
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looking for classic NE singletrack
$tinkle said:
^^^^ that's a piping hot steaming pile of stupid right there.

http://www.policeone.com/news/6188462-PoliceOnes-2013-Gun-Policy-Law-Enforcement-Survey-Results-Executive-Summary/

• Asked if a federal ban on magazines holding more than 10 rounds would reduce violent crime, only 2.7% said yes, to 95.7% no.

• Only 7.6% thought a ban on so-called assault weapons would reduce violent crime; 71% thought it wouldn't help, and 20.5% thought it would aggravate the problem.

• On the more general question of what effect the White House's suite of gun restrictions would have on the safety of police officers, only 11.6% said it would help; 60.6% thought it would have no effect, and 24.6% thought it would make cops less safe.

• Asked what the likely outcome would have been at Aurora and Newtown had a legally armed civilian been on the scene, 80% said it would have meant fewer casualties and 6.2% said it would have prevented casualties altogether. Only 5.5% said it would have led to greater loss of life.

• Asked which measure would help most in preventing large-scale public shootings, a plurality (28.8%) said more-permissive concealed-carry policies for civilians. The second and third choices were also not on the Obama agenda: more-aggressive institutionalization of the mentally ill (19.6%) and more armed guards (15.8%). Only then do we get improved background screening for gun purchasers, (14%), followed by longer prison terms for gun-related violent crimes (7.9%). Bringing up the rear were tighter limits on weapons sales (1.5%) and legislative restrictions on "assault weapons" and magazines (0.9%).
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There's some interesting stuff in there....

8. Do you think increasing the severity of punishments for gun trafficking, particularly by
unlicensed dealers or "straw purchasers" who buy arms for persons ineligible to own
them, would reduce instances of gun crime?

Yes - 59%
Click to expand...
(wait, isn't that what the current gun bill in the Senate does, make gun trafficking a federal crime?)

9.Should citizens be required to complete a safety training class before being allowed to
buy a gun?

No - 43%
Click to expand...
WTF? 43% (a plurality) don't feel that there should be any safety classes before being allowed to purchase a gun?

15. If you wereSheriff or Chief, how would you respond to more restrictive gun laws?

45% (again, a plurality) Not enforce and join in the public, vocal opposition effort.
Click to expand...
Not enforcing federal laws? How Patriotic of them...
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,233
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instead of making more laws about guns, maybe we should address the real issue: ensuring that the mentally ill receive the health care treatment they desperately need - which would require taking health care out from behind a pay wall, but fvck that commie sh*t.
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,343
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dante said:
WTF? 43% (a plurality) don't feel that there should be any safety classes before being allowed to purchase a gun?
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Don't know about you but when I hear 'conglomeration of law enforcement', I think brain power on the order of the sun. Amirite?

If only there were some sort of independent checks of these things to find the real answer.

Oh but alas. Whatever manimal's buds say must be true. Personally I'm shocked that the percentage of the population that wants to go into law enforcement would be pro-gun.
 
SLOPE

SLOPE

Monkey
Aug 24, 2001
680
3
Arnold, Maryland
I've been trying to stay away from here but upon hearing of the recent knife attack at the college, I had to see if you guys were calling for registration of knives or outright banning of them.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
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SLOPE said:
I've been trying to stay away from here but upon hearing of the recent knife attack at the college, I had to see if you guys were calling for registration of knives or outright banning of them.
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14 injured, zero dead. Big difference.
 
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Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

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Feb 2, 2007
40,450
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I only post this because IMHO Timothy Egan has written some fantastic books about history of the West. Money quotes:
First, regarding Nancy Lanza, mother of the boy who fired 154 rounds with his assault rifle, killing 26 innocents in five minutes. We shouldn’t judge her for arming her child, we’re told, shouldn’t second-guess her for storing weapons in his room, the gun safe in his room, the numerous magazines in his room. No harm there, because guns don’t kill people.
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LaPierre’s job is to frighten people; more than a clown, he is the Kim Jong-un of American politics, saying things that are so outrageous that, by contrast, garden variety extremists don’t look so bad. Recently, of course, he suggested militarizing all elementary schools to prevent further shootings.
Click to expand...

Inb4 "new york times commie fag loving socialist propaganda blah blah blah".
 
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4gnegative

4gnegative

Chimp
Sep 10, 2010
99
0
Orange Curtain
syadasti said:
They've developed systems to prevent unwanted replication by the average joe in high quality 2D copiers and other methods:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

No reason they can't do similar in 3D printers.
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"The EURion constellation is a pattern of symbols incorporated into a number of banknote designs worldwide since about 1996. It is added to help imaging software detect the presence of a banknote in a digital image. Such software can then block the user from reproducing banknotes to prevent counterfeiting using colour photocopiers. However, recent research shows that the EURion constellation may just be one of many factors used to detect currency, and is not necessarily required.[1]"

So were protected from counterfit money? How does this apply to printing a viable lower for an ar-15?
 
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
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4gnegative said:
So were protected from counterfit money? How does this apply to printing a viable lower for an ar-15?
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Unlicensed, unregulated weapons manufacturing will not go mainstream. NRA won't benefit from it either - it has no chance and no legal protection.
 
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4gnegative

4gnegative

Chimp
Sep 10, 2010
99
0
Orange Curtain
syadasti said:
Unlicensed, unregulated weapons manufacturing will not go mainstream. NRA won't benefit from it either - it has no chance and no legal protection.
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Go to 22:50 in the video. This guy already got a license from the ATF at the end of the video to print and sell lower receivers. The video also states, according to the ATF, "there are currently no restrictions for an individual to manufacture firearms for personal use." If you have a 3d printer you can go to defcad.org, download the cad file and print one up.

Have to also add, this guy is in texas so laws may very state by state.
 
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
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They aren't mainstream - you cannot to go Staples and buy a point, click, and shoot 3D printer.

Also ATF said they won't take action until they are more reliable (and require no-skill) and the receiver cannot be sold. No government legislates or understands technology as fast as it develops.
 
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
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http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/mass-shootings-rampages-rising-data

research from an expert on criminal justice at Texas State University further shows that gun rampages in the United States have escalated.

The research, to be published in a book in July, confirms that:

-Public shooting rampages have spiked in particular over the last few years
-Many of the attackers were heavily armed
-None of the shootings was stopped by an ordinary citizen using a gun
...
Blair's data also underscores a striking parallel we found: The unprecedented spike in these shootings came during the same four-year period, from 2009-12, that saw a wave of nearly 100 state laws making it easier to obtain, carry, and conceal firearms.
...
While our study examined cases in which four or more people were murdered, Blair's dataset includes less lethal rampages in which the median number of victims shot was four and the median number of those killed was two. But casualty counts aside, his research uses similar criteria, excluding cases involving criminal motives other than indiscriminate mass murder, such as gang-related shootings. (He points out that the NYPD does not consider gang-related shootings to be "active shooter events.")
...
Moreover, our investigation made clear that so-called "good guys with guns" do not stop public shooting rampages. Likewise, Blair's data couldn't be any clearer when it comes to the National Rifle Association's favorite myth: He found just 3 cases out of 84 in which an armed individual who had been on the scene used a firearm to stop the shooter. And none of the three were ordinary citizens. According to Blair, in two instances those who intervened were off-duty police officers: one in a case in upstate New York in 2010, and another in a case in Philadelphia in 2005. The third case took place in Winnemucca, Nevada, in 2008; the man there who intervened and shot the rampaging gunman, as I've reported previously, was a US Marine.
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$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
3 observations:
- rarely is a mass shooter non-white, but when they are we learn their name (colin furguson, cho seung-hui, chai soua vang)
- black crime is used in the stats to scare whitey that it's in his back yard
- both sides of the gun control debate won't agree until white people die at the rate seen in urban areas

to use myself as an example: this thread is the most effort i've put into doing anything about gun violence. it's not that i'm racist or selfish (not more than a typical suburban white guy, i should say), but it doesn't yet affect us sufficiently, so there's no fvcks-to-give kiosk in the local wal-mart pkg lot. maybe now you can understand why there's such a widespread outpouring over abortion/infanticide, but not guns.

stats aren't about race, but complacency just may be.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
$tinkle said:
3 observations:
- black crime is used in the stats to scare whitey that it's in his back yard
Click to expand...
Reading helps...

his research uses similar criteria, excluding cases involving criminal motives other than indiscriminate mass murder, such as gang-related shootings. (He points out that the NYPD does not consider gang-related shootings to be "active shooter events.")
Click to expand...
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
i'm speaking institutionally insofar as the gun control debate proper, not that article.

do you disagree?
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
oh, also, when an active shooter is stopped, it's by whitey, who is then spot-lighted & lauded as a hero. stormfront demands an explanation for this esoteric trivia
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
$tinkle said:
oh, also, when an active shooter is stopped, it's by whitey, who is then spot-lighted & lauded as a hero. stormfront demands an explanation for this esoteric trivia
Click to expand...
By trained professionals doing what they were taught...

He found just 3 cases out of 84 in which an armed individual who had been on the scene used a firearm to stop the shooter. And none of the three were ordinary citizens.
Click to expand...
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,233
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is the gun control debate still even an actual debate anymore? As far as I can tell at this point both sides are just yelling "hurr durr guns mmmm derp!"
 
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