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Gun Control

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by Beef Supreme, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. AngryMetalsmith Business is good, thanks for asking

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    I remember reading news articles about the Gabby Giffords shooting and noticed that the type of gun, brand, caliber and model were mentioned. Sales of that particular weapon increased immediately following the massacre. I expect this time to be no different as the the weapons used in yesterday's shooting have been equally identified.

    Reading the comments posted below the current online news articles in favor of gun rights and the defense of the 2nd amendment is just sickening. This country's love affair with guns at all cost is beyond disturbing to me. Twenty children were gunned down and frothers can offer no sympathy for the grieving but instead vehemently defend their right to weapons. Is the unrestricted right to posses firearms more important than the lives of children ?

    Some offer such nuggets of wisdom as to suggest that yesterday's tragedy could have been avoided if the teachers were carrying side arms. Their idea is to add more guns to the equation. This is insane, completely.

    We have a problem in the US, and the need for gun control is only a symptom. We as culture and a people have some serious issues that need to be addressed. The mentality needs to change before laws can have any impact.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
    #41 Dec 15, 2012   
  2. stevew unique white person

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    go to a gun show.....frothing isn't color blind.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
    #42 Dec 15, 2012   
  3. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Hey einstein. Cars and knives help the economy and people's lives. Guns just shoot shlt. They are unique and wholly stand on their own. And unless you're one of the assholes that works for the NRA with their cheeks spread to whatever smith and wesson tells them, THEY DO NOT BENEFIT YOUR DAILY LIFE. Even those things you call thoughts are ginned up by a LOBBY group who keeps their financial masters happy by putting up these fvcking retarded arguments.

    Where the hell do you thing this whole 'more gunz' mindset comes from? It comes from a lobbying company that gets more money every time people buy the damn things. That's why they sent out all this booga booga obama crap that you can see right this very second on their website. More guns is more money for them. It's not about freedom, it's not about keeping the government at bay. It's about making themselves rich, with fvck all concern for how many people die.
    #43 Dec 15, 2012   
  4. norbar New Member

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    If you want numbers compare the number of guns per capita in us to any other country to gun related crime, murder and accidents.

    For some reason US is the only country that doesn't change their gun laws after massacres. Every other civilized country in the world did that in similar cases. Guess what - it worked. Even the Swiss where EVERY man has to have a gun in his house has much less guns per capita than US. That's insane. Not to mention the Swiss are trained with guns and not so long ago they passed a law that without a special permit you may not carry a gun outside your house or have ammo for it. Strangely the number of gun deaths dropped.

    Why is America the only country in the world who can't take example from other countries? Though I like the idea if something is a problem, you need to add more of it to solve the problem. Be it guns or market deregulation.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
    #44 Dec 15, 2012   
  5. SLOPE New Member

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    Dictators love gun control.
    #45 Dec 15, 2012   
  6. gastro Member

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    My freezers full of venison that will feed me and my family for the next nine months beg to differ.

    It's not about guns, it's about preventing irresponsible people access to guns.
    #46 Dec 15, 2012   
  7. Jm_ Active Member

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    Cars are way better for hunting than guns.

    That and just digging a hole and putting a false-top on it with some bait on top.

    I've never understood hunting.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
    #47 Dec 15, 2012   
  8. gonefirefightin free wieners

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    Make something idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot
    #48 Dec 15, 2012   
  9. Beef Supreme Active Member

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    Where? Camp Nelson is one of my favorite places on the planet. I also have some good friends from Springville.
    #49 Dec 15, 2012   
  10. Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

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    I grew up in Three Rivers and went to high school in woodlake. The in-laws live in porterville now, just down the hill from springville and the reservation.
    #50 Dec 15, 2012   
  11. gonefirefightin free wieners

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    I have family in Tulare, Visalia and wood lake.
    #51 Dec 15, 2012   
  12. Silver find me a tampon

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

    American exceptionalism, baby!
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
    #52 Dec 16, 2012   
  13. limitedslip New Member

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    In the 20th century you were ~25 times more likely to be killed by your own government than by homicide. Gun ownership is a deterrent to state violence. It's not always a very effective one, but it's the only real deterrent there is.
    #53 Dec 16, 2012   
  14. AngryMetalsmith Business is good, thanks for asking

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    Uhh...yeah, 'cause your pea shooter will surely put the fear into the state with their tanks and planes that shoot missiles and stuff.

    :rolleyes:
    #54 Dec 16, 2012   
  15. worship_mud New Member

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  16. DaveW Space Monkey

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    Gun ownership is I doubt much very much of a deterrent to conscription...........
    #56 Dec 16, 2012   
  17. limitedslip New Member

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    Not talking about fear. Even in just economic terms it would cost far more to 'round up undesirables' versus an armed populace compared to a unarmed populace. The costs would go up all over the board: an armored Humvee vs. an econoline van, tactical gear with body armor vs. a couple pistols, and trained soldiers willing to get shot at vs. cheap thugs. Probably 20x the cost just in money alone.
    #57 Dec 16, 2012   
  18. norbar New Member

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  19. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Can I get a video of the venison begging to differ?


    Your ability to archive meat is not what I'm talking about. I'd assume you know that but apparently not.

    You even said it yourself

    Plenty of other places are proof of this to some degree. But it's different here. You and I know that.

    Just keep in mind that every time you or someone you know who does nothing but hunt, speaks up against any kind of gun control just because you own one, you make it easier for this kind of thing to happen........again, and again, and again.

    We don't need handguns in national parks, we don't need handguns in bars and we don't need them in schools for you to be able to hunt. And the answer is not more armed people. You know the difference right?
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
    #59 Dec 16, 2012   
  20. H8R Cranky Pants

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    So if there were strict gun laws, you would an arguable case.


    What about some doofus in the suburbs? What are they hunting?
    #60 Dec 16, 2012   
  21. mattmatt86 Active Member

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    This is probably the biggest problem with responsible gun owners, they feel like its a black and white issue. Can't you be pro hunting, pro sport shooting, pro legal gun ownership but also pro gun control? I'm Pro drinking but also Pro DUI enforcement.
    #61 Dec 16, 2012   
  22. gastro Member

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    Of course one can own guns and advocate gun control. I do. It seems more reasonable than the noises coming from the outer edge of the spectrum of opinion. Most responsible gun owners I know don't think it's a black and white issue. They couldn't care less about 50 round clips or teflon bullets, but they sure as hell don't want to have to give grandpa's 12 gauge to the government.

    Doofuses (doofi?) from the suburbs hunt too, and support suffering rural economies in the process.
    #62 Dec 16, 2012   
  23. norbar New Member

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    That's the thing. You can have a hunting license and a sports license in Poland. Yet the amount of guns is so small when someone threatens to use guns you can laught at him and claim he is full of **** there are so few gun owners here. Hell even when you look at gun stashes from police raids. The local mafia hub has probably less and worse weapons than a single gun enthusiast in the us.
    #63 Dec 16, 2012   
  24. johnbryanpeters Hero

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    Norbar, you need to visit Vermont. It's a very different world.

    Stay with me a week, you'll hear gunfire. At night, during the day, whenever. Some of it's target practice, state police or ordinary folks. Some of it's hunting, some legal and some not. some are "enthusiasts", some aren't.

    The gunfire is not threatening. it's just part of my world. What it isn't is gangs, psychos, or military contesting territory (some might be military training).

    I have some friends who are "enthusiasts". in general I think they're insane but harmless. I sometimes talk weapons with them - hardware, methods, effectiveness.

    The point? I have a hard time making the distinction between firearms and a mace or a poleaxe. Modern firearms are more efficient, but so what? They're a tool that can be used well or misused.
    #64 Dec 16, 2012   
  25. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    The fact that you happen to be comfortable in your redneck environs doesn't mean you have a point.

    Until you can distinguish between the national poleax or national mace association, the two high profile mace and poleax billion dollar lobby groups, you probably never will have a cogent point on this subject either.

    Everyone who's ever not been harmless, was in fact harmless until they became harmless. But when someone flips out with mace or a poleax, funny youtube vids result, not a room full of dead people.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
    #65 Dec 16, 2012   
  26. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Then don't make overly simplistic statements like "it's not about guns"

    Because very much of it IS exactly about guns. It's about military armament being readily available to joe schmoe. It's about huge clips and horrendously destructive projectiles being sold right next to them. None of which have a whole lot to do with the talking venison in your freezer. It's about a culture who's dumb enough to believe that the 2nd amendment gives them the right from gawd to own this ridiculous arsenal that's not going to do jack squat other than really fvck up one their neighbors one day.......certainly not keep the gubbamint at bay if they really really want to come git cha.

    So yes, culture is a huge part of it. But when that culture is fabricated with guns as the icon, guns themselves are also very much so a part of it.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
    #66 Dec 16, 2012   
  27. syadasti i heart mac

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    Gun control sure has ruined the safety the America used to enjoy when everyone was armed in the Old American West with weak state control:

    P.S. Violent crime in America is at its lowest point in 50 years, but America needs more guns....

    More guns make you less safe, there is no doubt in the numbers:

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html

    Actual correlates of gun violence:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-gun-deaths/69354/

    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
    #67 Dec 16, 2012   
  28. MMike A fowl peckerwood.

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    While I want to agree with you.....(about the "non threatening" part).

    Back when I lioved in the stink-hole known as Seattle, one of the favourite riding spot, known as Exit 38 was also a favourite shooting spot. Redneck idiots would haul all manner of **** to shoot at. Washing machines, TV's, old cars,....and they would leave it there....along with a two inch layer of spent shell casings on the ground.

    In general we stayed out of their way. They had their spot, we had ours. But one day, one little gang moved uphill, and were aiming differently......towards the trails. I doubt it was malicious. But you could tell these idiots were deficient a chromosome or two. We chose not to tempt fate an left.

    My point being....you never know whence the gunfire came....or where it's going.

    I just don;t get why shooting is entertaining.

    And anyone who makes the "cars kill people too" argument can cram it up their ass. Cars are built primarily for transportation. Yes DUI's happen. But guns are purpose-built to harm/kill/maim. Having less oversight over guns that you do for cars is just idiotic.

    #68 Dec 16, 2012   
  29. TKCastle New Member

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    This tread is full of wow. From both sides.
    #69 Dec 16, 2012   
  30. Silver find me a tampon

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    You know, stoplights interfere with the right to peaceably assemble, and are unconstitutional.
    #70 Dec 17, 2012   
  31. worship_mud New Member

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    i have a six year old daughter.
    there is no law, constitutional right or anything else, that i would rate higher as her life and well-being. everyone who thinks different should maybe check his priorities in life.
    it is absurd (for me as a european) to have a discussion on the right to own a automatic assault rifle.
    i have no fcukin' idea what a normal, sane person would need an AR-15 for??? this is a serious question i found no answer to.
    #71 Dec 17, 2012   
  32. valve bouncer Master Dildoist

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    Apparently this maniac's mum was a "prepper". Been watching this show a bit lately and have to say I'm not surprised. The guy who shot his thumb off was a classic. Completely and utterly nuts.
    #72 Dec 17, 2012   
  33. norbar New Member

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    You have to be pretty crafty to go on a killing spree with a mace. Hell even if you mean the medieval mace.

    Also I don't claim guns are bad. I went to the shooting range, used to shoot for sport in high school. They are fun. That's why so many people are really against it. People don't want to loose their toys but it's a bit selfish to want your toys if it means people will get killed. I understand not all gun owners are nutjobs or dangerous but more guns = bigger chance of guns falling in the wrong hands, period. It's pure statistics.
    #73 Dec 17, 2012   
  34. dan-o Active Member

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    This.

    A guy in my town attacked his roommate with an axe this week.
    While the guy apparently looked like he'd been attacked by a wood chipper, he will live to piss off his homicidal roommate another day.
    #74 Dec 17, 2012   
  35. syadasti i heart mac

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    Same goes for the children who got attacked in China with a knife - their parents are far more fortunate...
    #75 Dec 17, 2012   
  36. norbar New Member

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    You mean the one where over 20 children were stabbed and none died?
    #76 Dec 17, 2012   
  37. TheTruth New Member

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    I've only read the first page of this thread, and it seems that the consensus is the government is to blame; specifically Obama. Obama could not be blamed for this or any level of government in the US because this tragedy was unforeseen and could not have been prevented by any person or law, but his mother. Adam Lanza had mental issues that his mother struggled with and she did try to seek help. She had no idea her son was going commit such an act of terrorism. http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother Newton,

    "Oh, and Fvck Obama for being such a pvssy. Today is exactly the right day to start talking about this like adults." If you haven't noticed, our culture practices grieving and mourning over deaths. To disturb that period with belligerent argument and speak of guns would be rather rude to those mourning and grieving. I understand your reactionary statements, but your suggestions would only make the victims feel worse. Have sympathy.

    However, the debate over gun control is not one for me to take part in. But I will say that it was Adam Lanza's mother who Adam obtained the guns from. Will we start asking everyone who wants to buy a gun if they have crazy kin? Also, guns serve no other purpose than to kill whether it be animals or humans. Putting restrictions on guns won't make them any less dangerous.

    Really what this debate comes down to is the culture of fear in America. Everyone is constantly afraid something terrible is going to happen, which is why we are debating over how many laws we can get the government to implement to make us safe. Laws are made by humans and they can be broken by humans. Laws are a mental concept. Tragedies like this will continue to happen in America because we are so afraid of reoccurring tragedies and crazy people see this as an opportunity to really scare everyone. So what do we do? In my opinion, we just continue to live our lives.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
    #77 Dec 17, 2012   
  38. profro New Member

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    The current US population is 311,591,917. You get that many idiots living together and some unfortunate, bad things will happen. In my opinion, the ONLY way to stop violence like this is for someone to cap the killer before he kills 20+ unarmed, innocent people. Just think about how this story would be if he was stopped before victim 1, or 2, or 3, or 4, or so on. Don't you think every single family would have wished someone there could have stopped this? I would.
    #78 Dec 17, 2012   
  39. MMike A fowl peckerwood.

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    #79 Dec 17, 2012   
  40. kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    I also wish a magic dragon with a rainbow mane would give me a million dollars and a cigar made of powdered unicorn horns.

    If you don't trust one idiot with multiple guns, why do you trust one or several more?

    Even percentage-wise, civilized first world countries just do not have this problem. And the funny part is that some of them did.......like the UK and Australia. And guess what they did. And guess what the result has been. The good news is that you don't have to guess. You can actually just look at the result. And there IS a very positive result.

    The US has almost as many firearms as people. And that's apparently not enough. So what's the magic number? 10 per person? 20? You honestly think that will IMPROVE the situation? Turning the entire country into a cartoon shoot'em up every time someone gets out of line is just insane. Who's the judge of 'out of line' at that point? The same idiots. It's gnarly enough watching the confusion that ensues at grocery store checkout lines and 4-way stop sign intersections. You want arm every one of those people?

    I know, I know "it only takes one trained, 'right' person". We can't even do that now with the current lax ownership procedures and training available everywhere.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
    #80 Dec 17, 2012   

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