[jonKranked]

What the hel, one last example, why is gas in socal 4 bucks a gallon and here its less than three...... Because people pay for it, the market allows for the suppliers to charge for it so they do.

also taxes vary state by state.

 

[syadasti]

Really? You just laid it out how pharma is trying to push the little guy making generics off the shelf so to speak, and you want to compare that to different safety equipment manufactures with different pricing?

JK stated the argument which is similar to what someone who doesn't know better would say about name brand vs generic medication. It's consumer perception that generics somehow aren't equivalent or safe (I'm not claiming that the MIPS version is equal to an average helmet either before another genius jumps up and down about that again):

I've never been able to comprehend the mentality of people like you who place the protection of one of their most important organs in the cheapest helmet they can get their hands on.

DM, come back when companies pay you $150/hr for your industry insight because that's what I'm getting paid for my next conference call on small appliances (BTW, as with my other small appliance employer, I didn't seek this contract either, they came to me).

 

[dan-o]

DM, come back when companies pay you $150/hr for your industry insight because that's what I'm getting paid

$150/hr?
Talk about price gouging! I can find people on the street corner all day long to talk about small appliances for pocket change.

 

[syadasti]

$150/hr?
Talk about price gouging! I can find people on the street corner all day long to talk about small appliances for pocket change.

I didn't set the rate or apply for this contract or my last contract (which is 28 months long and still going). I was also offered a position in Chicago but didn't want to move.

 

[DirtyMike]

JK stated the argument which is similar to what someone who doesn't know better would say about name brand vs generic medication. It's consumer perception that generics somehow aren't equivalent or safe (I'm not claiming that the MIPS version is equal to an average helmet either before another genius jumps up and down about that again):



DM, come back when companies pay you $150/hr for your industry insight because that's what I'm getting paid for my next conference call on small appliances (BTW, as with my other small appliance employer, I didn't seek this contract either, they came to me).

Why does it always take you so long to realize I am just Stirring the pot? I am management at a ford dealer now, I look at cost vs price all day long. $150 an hour is what you get paid? Pfft, I call you to the carpet on that one, prove it. If you make that much money, then why would you give two ****s about how much you pay for a helmet, in your words, you specifically got your helmet for under a hundred for what you say is the same people are paying hundreds for... People who do what you do for Ford do not get paid that much, I find it hard to believe that in the small appliance world you would get that.

 

[Foxbat]

Kitsbow and Acre (aka Mission Workshop) have targeted a style conscious demographic that probably also buys $200 denim without blinking an eye. I think they have seen success in the roadie market and are now trying to see if mountain bikers will buy. Personally I don't care how my riding gear looks off the bike. By the time I'm done riding I'm usually muddy/dirty and I'll change into some regular clothes. Fashion crisis solved.

 

[jonKranked]

JK stated the argument which is similar to what someone who doesn't know better would say about name brand vs generic medication. It's consumer perception that generics somehow aren't equivalent or safe (I'm not claiming that the MIPS version is equal to an average helmet either before another genius jumps up and down about that again):



DM, come back when companies pay you $150/hr for your industry insight because that's what I'm getting paid for my next conference call on small appliances (BTW, as with my other small appliance employer, I didn't seek this contract either, they came to me).

small appliances? go work in a truly regulated industry. night and day difference in how business is conducted.

 

[jonKranked]

Why does it always take you so long to realize I am just Stirring the pot? I am management at a ford dealer now, I look at cost vs price all day long. $150 an hour is what you get paid? Pfft, I call you to the carpet on that one, prove it. If you make that much money, then why would you give two ****s about how much you pay for a helmet, in your words, you specifically got your helmet for under a hundred for what you say is the same people are paying hundreds for... People who do what you do for Ford do not get paid that much, I find it hard to believe that in the small appliance world you would get that.

buck fiddy an hour for a call that is unlikely to last more than 4 hours. when that's an hourly rate at SFT then we'll be impressed.

 

[stevew]

jesus.

fvcking.

christ.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

Some of y'all could benefit from looser fitting shorts.

 

[syadasti]

small appliances? go work in a truly regulated industry. night and day difference in how business is conducted.

There are agencies involved - UL, FDA, and NSF. Our manuals require a warning section that we cannot edit once it's approved - which is great if a non-English speaker writes it. Our manuals cannot make specific health claims (something I have to get them to fix whenever we have a new model for the US market). Some of our Asian models will not meet UL approval for safety reasons and our new flagship model has a stupid UL required safety tab in the LONG feed chute so people can't as easily jam their fingers into the auger (which would be an accomplishment with or without it) but then necessitates an extra step and takes away from the one of the things that makes the new model great - a large opening. I'm going to remove the safety tab as soon as mine comes.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

Are your "small appliances" sold through adam and eve ?

 

[syadasti]

Are your "small appliances" sold through adam and eve ?

No, but non-native English speakers at the company often come up with hilarious translations and product names you have to fix which would make you think that. I was telling my sister about a few weeks ago and she said we should make the names even more porn-like on purpose.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

What do you make, meat grinders for exotic bird meat harvesting?

 

[eric strt6]

What do you make, meat grinders for exotic bird meat harvesting?

Cock fighting machines for internet chest thumping

 

[syadasti]

What do you make, meat grinders for exotic bird meat harvesting?

Our latest product has a large mouth to suck down items whole. No need to play with your items first - just shove them in there and push them down the chute

The best low speed mastication available (800K plus views on our youtube preview we posted in November)

Slower rotation is better.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

Like this:

 

[syadasti]

You think I'm kidding, I'm not. Everyone wants slow mastication these days. Of course the Asians dreamed this up on the consumer end - who else would develop porn themed small appliances.

The closest thing to this was done in the commercial market long ago - this company in MA for example (these are super slow at about a tenth the speed of the new consumer low-speed units - this one was setup typically around 5-7 RPM):

http://www.food-processing-equipment.biz/juicerextractors.html

 

[jdcamb]

What's going on here?

 

[JohnE]

I for one, prefer my mastication quick and dirty. Get in, get it done and get out. I dont have time for long drawn out wanking sessions.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

DafuQ?

 

[jonKranked]

There are agencies involved - UL, FDA, and NSF. Our manuals require a warning section that we cannot edit once it's approved - which is great if a non-English speaker writes it. Our manuals cannot make specific health claims (something I have to get them to fix whenever we have a new model for the US market). Some of our Asian models will not meet UL approval for safety reasons and our new flagship model has a stupid UL required safety tab in the LONG feed chute so people can't as easily jam their fingers into the auger (which would be an accomplishment with or without it) but then necessitates an extra step and takes away from the one of the things that makes the new model great - a large opening. I'm going to remove the safety tab as soon as mine comes.

aw how cute. your manual can't be changed. all copy & literature has to be reviewed and approved by the FDA for pharma and MD&D

two words:

Clinical.


Trials.

 

[syadasti]

Yeah I said "sure there's a different mix of R&D, marketing, certifications, etc"

Also do you have any hilarious conversations with your GM about products that wouldn't be approved in the US?

Clinical Trials?

Doctors need the results of clinical trials to make informed choices, with their patients, about which treatment to use. But the best currently available evidence estimates that half of all clinical trials, for the treatments we use today, have never been published. This problem is the same for industry-sponsored trials and independent academic studies, across all fields of medicine from surgery to oncology, and it represents an enormous hidden hole for everything we do. Doctors can't make informed decisions, when half the evidence is missing.

Most people react to this situation with incredulity, because it's so obviously absurd. How can medics, academics, and legislators have permitted such a huge problem to persist? The answer is simple. This territory has been policed -- and aggressively -- by the pharmaceutical industry. They have worked hard to shut down public discussion on the topic, for several decades, with great success.

They say, for example, that the problem is modest, and that critics have cherrypicked the evidence: but this is a lie. The best evidence comes from the most current review of all the literature, published in 2010. It estimates that half of all completed trials are left unpublished, and that trials with negative results are about twice as likely to be buried.

Our industry corruption isn't as important as this corruption either: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/08/05/209214571/data-dive-finds-doctors-for-rent

 

[jonKranked]

yea, i saw that ted talk. it actually made the rounds in email at work. it's for sure a problem, but it's not like it's some conspiracy theory that it's made out to be (at least in my experience - i've only worked on one project that went through clinicals). and yea, it's the trials for legacy products that are needed. the problem is, the farther back you dig, the farther away you get from current record keeping practices.

 

[jonKranked]

and you ***STILL*** haven't answered my questions about how much you think it costs to develop a new drug

 

[syadasti]

and you ***STILL*** haven't answered my questions about how much you think it costs to develop a new drug

A billion dollars and up...literally. Some are as low as 15 million:

For companies that have launched more than three drugs, the median cost per new drug is $4.2 billion; for those that have launched more than four, it is $5.3 billion. Even if a company only develops one drug, the median spending is still a hefty $351 million. Note that companies with extremely low R&D spending per drug mostly get there in part by convincing a partner, usually a large pharmaceutical company, to carry the cost. Although I’d also caution against comparisons between individual companies because small differences in luck can have a big impact on numbers, these data can be useful. Bristol-Myers Squibb, for instance, looks far more efficient than its big pharma peers.

How Much They Cost: R&D Spending Per New Drug
Company Number of new drugs 10 year R&D spending ($MIL) R&D per drug ($MIL)
1 Abbott 1 13183 13183
2 Sanofi 6 60768 10128
3 AstraZeneca 4 38245 9561
4 Hoffmann-La Roche 8 70928 8866
5 Pfizer 10 77786 7779
6 Wyeth 3 22702 7567
7 Eli Lilly 4 26710 6678
8 Bayer 5 33118 6624
9 Schering-Plough 3 18845 6282
10 Novartis 10 60727 6073
11 Takeda 4 24132 6033
12 Merck&Co 9 49133 5459
13 GlaxoSmithKline 11 57595 5236
14 J&J 13 67624 5202
15 Novo Nordisk 2 9251 4625
16 UCB 1 4325 4325
17 Yamanouchi 1 4321 4321
18 Fujisawa 1 4286 4286
19 Amgen 5 21350 4270
20 Astellas 3 12582 4194
21 Shionogi 1 3854 3854
22 Celgene 2 7193 3596
23 Bristol-Myers Squibb 9 30352 3372
24 Eisai 4 11534 2883
25 Teva 2 5763 2881
26 Biogen Idec 4 9470 2368
27 Vertex 2 4140 2070
28 Sunovion 1 1967 1967
29 Human Genome Sciences 1 1954 1954
30 Elan 1 1903 1903
31 Gilead 3 5527 1842
32 Exelixis 1 1789 1789
33 Lundbeck 2 3527 1763
34 Millennium 1 1593 1593
35 Genentech 4 6277 1569
36 Allergan 1 1559 1559
37 Baxter 3 4627 1542
38 Ipsen 1 1459 1459
39 Forest 4 5184 1296
40 Cephalon 1 1221 1221
41 Onyx 1 1219 1219
42 Sepracor 1 1170 1170
43 Alcon 1 1133 1133
44 Theravance 1 1010 1010
45 Genzyme 5 4814 963
46 Shire 4 3827 957
47 Arena 1 934 934
48 Watson 1 930 930
49 Adolor 1 877 877
50 Valeant 1 844 844
51 Schwarz 2 1545 772
52 NPS 1 756 756
53 Regeneron 3 2149 716
54 Affymax 1 660 660
55 Seattle Genetics 1 610 610
56 CV Therapeutics 1 599 599
57 ImClone 1 517 517
58 Dendreon 1 509 509
59 Alexion 1 490 490
60 The Medicines Company 1 455 455
61 Ariad 1 444 444
62 OSI 1 402 402
63 Talecris 1 396 396
64 Progenics 1 356 356
65 Actelion 1 346 346
66 Savient 1 339 339
67 Praecis 1 311 311
68 Vivus 1 309 309
69 MGI 1 294 294
70 Vicuron 1 286 286
71 Salix 2 560 280
72 Idenix 1 280 280
73 Mylan 3 762 254
74 Discovery Laboratories 1 228 228
75 Indevus 1 222 222
76 Cubist 1 220 220
77 Acorda 1 185 185
78 Ista 1 171 171
79 Optimer 1 171 171
80 Theratechnologies 1 164 164
81 MediGene 1 155 155
82 Vanda 1 150 150
83 Eyetech 1 144 144
84 ThromboGenics 1 137 137
85 BioMarin 3 403 134
86 Protalix 1 125 125
87 Amarin 1 122 122
88 Insmed 1 118 118
89 NeurogesX 1 89 89
90 Hyperion 1 87 87
91 Cypress Bioscience 1 82 82
92 New River 1 79 79
93 Aegerion 1 74 74
94 Sucampo 1 62 62
95 Fibrocell 1 62 62
96 Tercica 1 49 49
97 Pharmion 1 47 47
98 Kamada 1 37 37
99 Lev 1 26 26
100 OMRIX 1 15 15

 

[jonKranked]

A billion dollar and up...literally

that's a pretty conservative estimate.

 

[jonKranked]

and one thing to keep in mind.... that's the cost just for ONE DRUG. for each drug that goes to market, there's a dozen that didn't make it through clinicals, and thousands more that never made it through development. all these failures still cost a company money.

 

[syadasti]

and one thing to keep in mind.... that's the cost just for ONE DRUG. for each drug that goes to market, there's a dozen that didn't make it through clinicals, and thousands more that never made it through development. all these failures still cost a company money.

It sounds like the actual costs are more like 5 billion all things considered.

A new analysis conducted at Forbes puts grim numbers on these costs. A company hoping to get a single drug to market can expect to have spent $350 million before the medicine is available for sale. In part because so many drugs fail, large pharmaceutical companies that are working on dozens of drug projects at once spend $5 billion per new medicine.

 

[eric strt6]

and yet they pulled the only true drug that could turn a a complete prude into a raging sex machine: the Quaalude, off the market

 

[Pesqueeb]

 

[eric strt6]

make sure it gets put up on youtube

 

[syadasti]

make sure it gets put up on youtube

They might have a drug to fix that and hopefully the side effects aren't too bad.

 

[jonKranked]

It sounds like the actual costs are more like 5 billion all things considered.

yea i saw that forbes report. it's more accurate than the eli lilly report that was released. sh*t be expensive.

 

[jonKranked]

an hero

 

[JohnE]

It all started so innocently...and then, syadasti happened.

 

[DirtyMike]

It all started so innocently...and then, syadasti happened.

Ahhhhhh hahahaha

 

[syadasti]

and one thing to keep in mind.... that's the cost just for ONE DRUG. for each drug that goes to market, there's a dozen that didn't make it through clinicals, and thousands more that never made it through development. all these failures still cost a company money.

And yet R&D costs aren't their biggest costs and they enjoy great profit margins. Marketing scum is king - high prices and profit but not because of R&D...

The global pharmaceuticals market is worth US$300 billion a year, a figure expected to rise to US$400 billion within three years. The 10 largest drugs companies control over one-third of this market, several with sales of more than US$10 billion a year and profit margins of about 30%. Six are based in the United States and four in Europe. It is predicted that North and South America, Europe and Japan will continue to account for a full 85% of the global pharmaceuticals market well into the 21st century. Companies currently spend one-third of all sales revenue on marketing their products - roughly twice what they spend on research and development.

As a result of this pressure to maintain sales, there is now, in WHO's words, “an inherent conflict of interest between the legitimate business goals of manufacturers and the social, medical and economic needs of providers and the public to select and use drugs in the most rational way”. This is particularly true where drugs companies are the main source of information as to which products are most effective. Even in the United Kingdom, where the medical profession receives more independent, publicly-funded information than in many other countries, promotional spending by pharmaceuticals companies is 50 times greater than spending on public information on health.

 

[jonKranked]

your bolded quote is due to the fact that pharma companies are producing fewer and fewer medicines to treat actual diseases - instead we're getting boner pills and 17 different flavors of xanax

 

[Quo Fan]

So why hasn't this been moved to pawn?