[EVRAC]

(Email from Nicolai)

Dear friends,

It is done ....the G-BOXX-2 is born.....

everybody is welcome to join the next step
of bicycle transmission technology on the Taipei
show next week. We are located at the Biketech booth
A1221 to 1232.

cheers,

Karlheinz Nicolai
Universal Transmissions GMBH
Külftalstr. 18
31093 Lübbrechtsen
Germany

www.g.boxx.com
www.g-boxx.org

G-BOXX phone: (-49) (0)5185-60266-50
G-BOXX fax.: (-49) (0)5185-60266-40

 

[S.K.C.]

...any pics?

The first link doesn't seem to work.

This sounds pretty cool - I'd REALLY like to see what they've done.

 

[Mike B.]

I'll have to go by the booth and see what they've been up to. We were across from them at EuroBike - good bunch of folks from what I could tell.

 

[EVRAC]

I couldn't attach the PDF so I scanned it.
Here are the pics:

 

[mindlessfr]

siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick

 

[Bicyclist]

What are the changes? To my untrained eye they look the same, but I'm sure the new one is way better.

 

[EVRAC]

Universal Transissions presents:
G-BOXX2
Lightweight, 9 speed, customized ratios
State of the art manufacturing ensures reasonable OE pricing
mass production facilities operating to automotive standards
bicycle frame design support
frame prototyping available
warehouses in europe, taiwan and usa
maintenance and hassle free
fast upshifting even under load
easy shifting under every condition, even without pedaling
97% efficiency
ease of assembly / disassembly
uses G_CON mounting standard
hybrid carbon aramid alloy housing
SRAM trigger compatible

you are welcome at our taiwanese or european office to discuss your innovative 2007 bike project

 

[Bicyclist]

Can you use any trigger other than Sram?

 

[maxyedor]

Can you use any trigger other than Sram?

I would assume no on that one, it is more than likley 1:1 ratio, thus the Sram spec in the first place.

 

[Bicyclist]

I was thinking maybe they'd have some adjustable whatchamacallit that could adjust it. Why, you may ask? I don't know.

 

[dexter]

the sram part makes it that much better

 

[Bicyclist]

the sram part makes it that much better

Or worse, depending on your point of view.

 

[konabiker]

Or worse, depending on your point of view.

Yeah, if you're ghey.

Price anyone? I want a gear boxxxxxx.

 

[Bicyclist]

Yeah, if you're ghey.

OK...

 

[WSU DH'er]

Maybe I'm just slow, but are they trying to make a universal gearbox? One for other bike manufactures to build around?

 

[EVRAC]

yes

nicolai.net
mscbikes.com
mbk-cycles.com

are all on board

 

[S.K.C.]

Wow - this is sweet. Looks like other manufacturers can buy one of these as OEM and mate it to a specific frame application.

I wonder if Specialized will go with this one... the shock placement on the frame shown in the scanned PDF isn't too far off from a Demo 8...

...man if only I had Jesse James skillz I could take a plasma cutter, a TIG welder, some CNC pieces....

...my next frame is definitely gonna be a gearbox bike.

 

[DirtyMike]

So, Is this a derailer in a box??? Or a Box containing Internally geared hubs?? Just curious How they are running it.

Maybe I'm just slow, but are they trying to make a universal gearbox? One for other bike manufactures to build around?

The Derailer is Out, Gearboxxes are going to be standard soon. Specially on Full suspension rigs. Gearbox's make it easier to obtain a higher pedalling efficiany<Spelling> do to there only being One chain angle, One possibly Pivot angle. Not to mention keeping your chain in place where it belongs. All teh industry is waiting for is someone to have an Economical, and visually appealing version that holds up to the abuse of riding!!!

 

[free_skiier]

there is no way the deraileur is out, not gonna happen

 

[EVRAC]

I wonder if Specialized will go with this one

I'm with you on that. That would be a dream come true.
On the other hand they might develop their own system in house and that could be cool too.

...my next frame is definitley gonna be a gearbox bike.

I'm with you on that too.

 

[DirtyMike]

there is no way the deraileur is out, not gonna happen

The Derailer is the one thing on a bike we still use in its original form, with refinements of coarse. think about it though, gearbox's are getting better and better, lighter and more universal. Think about it like this, with a gearbox, properly placed on the bike, you cane make your chain follow near perfectly the path of the wheel's travel. You minimize the "Chain growth" on the bike, while doing so you eliminate alot of your pedal induced bob. The gear box is simply the next step in the Evolution of Bikes, i belive withing the next ten years it will be ths standard, at least with Full suspension, Road bikes will probably stick with a derailer, no need for improvement there. Think though with FS bikes, no dropped chains, no chain slapp, no chain whipp, none of that. Derailer is going away from being standard.

 

[gemini2k]

so does anyone know what these gearbox frames are actually gonna cost? Are they just gonna be for wc speced bikes or what? Cause it seems like tech upgrades in dh-ing are not exactly ever reasonable, I mean look what chainguides cost....

 

[ChrisRobin]

They're going to be insanely expensive.

I don't see gearboxes being a standard in the next little while. Unless companies are secretly developing their own gear-boxes, derailleurs are staying. There's too much r&d and testing involved for a company to just show up with a gear-boxed frame. Nicolai's been working on it for the last few years and it's only now they have something good with the g-boxx 2.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Can you use any trigger other than Sram?

would you want to?

 

[CBJ]

I hope the industry will read the Betamax vs. VHS strategic management case and not build to many of their own standards because somebody is going to loose if they don't. I good to see several European companies working together on this.

One interesting aspect form Betamax vx. VHS was that the best technology didn't win!

 

[FCLinder]

yes

nicolai.net
mscbikes.com
mbk-cycles.com

are all on board

What is the total weight of the gear box?

 

[dw]

Its a 9 speed gearbox made by SR Suntour that requires you to run a concentric pivot suspension.

Dave

 

[dw]

Think about it like this, with a gearbox, properly placed on the bike, you cane make your chain follow near perfectly the path of the wheel's travel. You minimize the "Chain growth" on the bike, while doing so you eliminate alot of your pedal induced bob.

A concentric pivot does absolutely NOTHING to minimize pedal bob. Actually, in almost all cases, it PROMOTES pedal bob. The reality of the situation is that with layouts that are useable for a bicycle, you will be stuck with a maximum of about 35% anti-squat at the beginning of the travel, and it will rapidly move to the pro-squat range by the sag point, menaing that you will waste away acceleration energy in your damper. With pro-squat, every time you accelerate, every pedal stroke, some of your energy will go into actually forcing the suspension to compress. This of course will require a platform shock, which will give up traction in deference to pedaling ability. Its a lose-lose situation.

The only way that zero chain growth can remove pedal feedback is through using identical sprocket sizes front and rear. Pedal feedback is vastly overrated anyways in my opinion.

Derailleurs are going to be here for a long time.

Dave

 

[MMike]

Why do you hate freedom?

(oops...wrong forum...)

A concentric pivot does absolutely NOTHING to minimize pedal bob. Actually, in almost all cases, it PROMOTES pedal bob. The reality of the situation is that with layouts that are useable for a bicycle, you will be stuck with a maximum of about 35% anti-squat at the beginning of the travel, and it will rapidly move to the pro-squat range by the sag point, menaing that you will waste away acceleration energy in your damper. With pro-squat, every time you accelerate, every pedal stroke, some of your energy will go into actually forcing the suspension to compress. This of course will require a platform shock, which will give up traction in deference to pedaling ability. Its a lose-lose situation.

The only way that zero chain growth can remove pedal feedback is through using identical sprocket sizes front and rear. Pedal feedback is vastly overrated anyways in my opinion.

Derailleurs are going to be here for a long time.

Dave

 

[Curb Hucker]

Its a 9 speed gearbox made by SR Suntour that requires you to run a concentric pivot suspension.

Dave

Hey Weagle

Would there be any way at all to get around this? Such as running a tensioner pulley somewhere on the frame or dropout?

 

[Tame Ape]

Quack quack quack...

Dave

Its okay, that decreased pedaling is conversly proportional to increased price.

In the mean time, sounds like you and Karl N might need to have a cup of MDMA and a conversation. Can't have you slaging a project you used to be associated with, looks bad for all parties.

 

[dw]

Hey Weagle

Would there be any way at all to get around this? Such as running a tensioner pulley somewhere on the frame or dropout?

Its going to be tough with this layout. It was specifically designed to be used with a concentric pivot, and there is not too much room for mounts, links, or pivots between the gearbox and wheel. Its another good step forward, but I dont see it replacing the derailleur entirely.

Dave

 

[dw]

Its okay, that decreased pedaling is conversly proportional to increased price.

In the mean time, sounds like you and Karl N might need to have a cup of MDMA and a conversation. Can't have you slaging a project you used to be associated with, looks bad for all parties.

haha

Im all good with it, I think its great to see this stuff moving forward, and I have talked a bit with the specific companies behind this effort. The biggest challenge I see is that it forces companies to use a cookie cutter suspension layout that is unfortunately, (but I think agreed upon by many riders) not the state of the art by todays standards. Also, with unique suspensions being the basis of many mountian bike companies entire marketing plans and design methodologies, it may be a tough sell. We have a ways to go. I'm not giving up on the idea, but I envision a very global solution.

Dave

 

[Tame Ape]

haha

Im all good with it, I think its great to see this stuff moving forward, and I have talked a bit with the specific companies behind this effort. The biggest challenge I see is that it forces companies to use a cookie cutter suspension layout that is unfortunately, (but I think agreed upon by many riders) not the state of the art by todays standards. Also, with unique suspensions being the basis of many mountian bike companies entire marketing plans and design methodologies, it may be a tough sell. We have a ways to go. I'm not giving up on the idea, but I envision a very global solution.

Dave

Maybe its a marketing decision. How much cutting edge technology can you package and sell at one time before you blow the average consumer's away?

No one doubts that your linky is state-of-the-art but married to a gear box in 2006 and it might blow MINDS!!!! :hot:

 

[Heath Sherratt]

How does Honda do it?

 

[jimmydean]

How does Honda do it?

Honda doesn't use gears, it's more like a snowmobile cvt style gearbox based on the write ups I've seen.

 

[CBJ]

The Honda is now a derailleur in a box.

 

[bballe336]

Honda doesn't use gears, it's more like a snowmobile cvt style gearbox based on the write ups I've seen.

Honda's newest gearbox is pretty much a derailleur crammed into a box. It is lighter and more efficient than the CVT was.

 

[jimmydean]

Honda's newest gearbox is pretty much a derailleur crammed into a box. It is lighter and more efficient than the CVT was.

Well that sucks! Might as well mount a damn Nexus hub and call it a done deal then.

 

[Bicyclist]

It seems like the derailleur-in-a-box approach isn't the best. Although the derailleur is protected, the chain still moves around inside the box so your chainline wouldn't be perfect.