Death Penalty = Abortion?
- Thread starter ummbikes
- Start date
When women can get themselves pregnant with 0% influence of men then and only then can they have 100% of the say.
Until then the FATHER OF THE CHILD gets 50% shout. It's his kid too.
Bummer about the tickets. Are you serious?
If that's where you stand then how could it be directed at you?
Lick your own sweaty ballsack, I ain't going anywhere near it. I'm surprised you'd want me to!
I think you are dead wrong DT and yes she is quite serious about the tickets
Simply stated, it is not an issue of womens rights, it is an issue of the rights of a child.
I don't believe that either parent has 100% say in deciding the fate of a child. I believe that abortion is morally reprehensible.
Returning to the question that started this thread;
I think the death penalty is justified because the subject is guilty of a heinous crime against humanity.
Abortion is not justified. A child is guilty of nothing and shouldn't be subjected to a capital penalty in return for it's mere existance.
How unfourtunate that the terms of a friendship can be changed based upon individual beliefs.
I don't believe that either parent has 100% say in deciding the fate of a child. I believe that abortion is morally reprehensible.
Returning to the question that started this thread;
I think the death penalty is justified because the subject is guilty of a heinous crime against humanity.
Abortion is not justified. A child is guilty of nothing and shouldn't be subjected to a capital penalty in return for it's mere existance.
How unfourtunate that the terms of a friendship can be changed based upon individual beliefs.
They reported on the radio this morning that Dubya wanted Roe vs. Wade overturned. I also heard in Florida you can get "Pro-Life" license plates for your car, but not "Pro-Choice".
Nice to know that our leaders, try to impose their families morals upon the rest of us.
Nice to know that our leaders, try to impose their families morals upon the rest of us.
that last bit is crap, after all the tickets are half hers:devil:
I am nearly having a seizure here, how enlightened and progressive of you and you spouse!
It reminds me of my three year old playing with her friends, a disagreement arrises and toy sharing ends.
What a joke!
Unless...
You are just pulling DT's leg, then it's funny.
But if you are serious...
GROW UP!
This is Ted Bundy. He was a killer.
This person does not yet have a name. Yet recieved the same sentance as Ted Bundy. Death.
This person has commited no crime against humanity. Why does this person deserve to die?
BTW, this is what a person looks like eleven weeks after conception.
This person has commited no crime against humanity. Why does this person deserve to die?
BTW, this is what a person looks like eleven weeks after conception.
Attachments
Tomás de Torquemada
was the leader and one of the creators of the Spanish Inquisition during its early years. The Inquisition set out to purge Spain of any one that the church did not consider to have "pure Christian blood", among those were Jews and Conversos, Jewish converts to Christianity. Torquemadas own grandmother was a converso and he had Jewish people in his family four generations back. To be of pure blood meant to have no Jewish blood in the family three generations back.
Spain had more Jewish residents then any other european country, and although many of them converted to Christianity, some even forced to do so, they were regarded with suspicion from the older Christians. Some, called Marranos, were only nominally converted and continued their Jewish customs in secrecy.
Resulting from this was the formation of a Christian cult called sangre limpia, pure blood. Since intermarriages with the Jewish part of the population was common, hardly anyone had sangre limpia but many claimed to and it was a constant preoccupation of the Spanish nobility.
Spain was unified under Ferdinand and Isabella and in 1479, a Dominican priest and Isabella's confessor, entered the movement of sangre limpia. Four years later he established himself as the head of the spanish inquisition. This man was the now well known Tomás de Torquemada, head Inquisitor.
The purpose of the Inquisition was to root out heresy and to do so they established a set of guidelines so that Catholics could inform on their Marrano neighbours:
If you see that your neighbors are wearing clean and fancy clothes on Saturdays, they are Jews.
If they clean their houses on Fridays and light candles earlier than usual on that night, they are Jews.
If they eat unleavened bread and begin their meal with celery and lettuce during Holy Week, they are Jews.
If they say prayers facing a wall, bowing back and forth, they are Jews.
The mildest penalty for a Marrano was the forfeiture of all their property which of course proved to be a convenient fund raising technique for the church to fund the war against the Moors this was followed by public humiliation, parading through the streets wearing only a yellow shirt with crosses called sambenito. The shirt came only to the waist leaving the lower body uncovered and exposed. After that came flogging at the church door.
The scale of punishment continued up to burning at the stake as a publich spectacle called auto-da-fé (act of faith). If the condemned would recant and kiss the cross he was mercifully garroted before the fire was set.
In 1490 Torquemada staged a trial that became famous in history, the LaGuardia trial. In this trial there were eight Jews and conversos who were accused of crucifying a christian child. There was never a victim identified, no body ever discovered but nevertheless all eight were convicted on the strength of their confessions which were obtained through torture. They all burned at the stake.
Rumours about jews committing ritual murder of Christian children have circulated around Europe for centuries and are known collectively as "the blood libel". While there is not a shred of evidence to support it, its opposite, the ritual murder of Jews by Christians is well known. The Spanish Inquisition alone murdered about thirty thousand Jews.
was the leader and one of the creators of the Spanish Inquisition during its early years. The Inquisition set out to purge Spain of any one that the church did not consider to have "pure Christian blood", among those were Jews and Conversos, Jewish converts to Christianity. Torquemadas own grandmother was a converso and he had Jewish people in his family four generations back. To be of pure blood meant to have no Jewish blood in the family three generations back.
Spain had more Jewish residents then any other european country, and although many of them converted to Christianity, some even forced to do so, they were regarded with suspicion from the older Christians. Some, called Marranos, were only nominally converted and continued their Jewish customs in secrecy.
Resulting from this was the formation of a Christian cult called sangre limpia, pure blood. Since intermarriages with the Jewish part of the population was common, hardly anyone had sangre limpia but many claimed to and it was a constant preoccupation of the Spanish nobility.
Spain was unified under Ferdinand and Isabella and in 1479, a Dominican priest and Isabella's confessor, entered the movement of sangre limpia. Four years later he established himself as the head of the spanish inquisition. This man was the now well known Tomás de Torquemada, head Inquisitor.
The purpose of the Inquisition was to root out heresy and to do so they established a set of guidelines so that Catholics could inform on their Marrano neighbours:
If you see that your neighbors are wearing clean and fancy clothes on Saturdays, they are Jews.
If they clean their houses on Fridays and light candles earlier than usual on that night, they are Jews.
If they eat unleavened bread and begin their meal with celery and lettuce during Holy Week, they are Jews.
If they say prayers facing a wall, bowing back and forth, they are Jews.
The mildest penalty for a Marrano was the forfeiture of all their property which of course proved to be a convenient fund raising technique for the church to fund the war against the Moors this was followed by public humiliation, parading through the streets wearing only a yellow shirt with crosses called sambenito. The shirt came only to the waist leaving the lower body uncovered and exposed. After that came flogging at the church door.
The scale of punishment continued up to burning at the stake as a publich spectacle called auto-da-fé (act of faith). If the condemned would recant and kiss the cross he was mercifully garroted before the fire was set.
In 1490 Torquemada staged a trial that became famous in history, the LaGuardia trial. In this trial there were eight Jews and conversos who were accused of crucifying a christian child. There was never a victim identified, no body ever discovered but nevertheless all eight were convicted on the strength of their confessions which were obtained through torture. They all burned at the stake.
Rumours about jews committing ritual murder of Christian children have circulated around Europe for centuries and are known collectively as "the blood libel". While there is not a shred of evidence to support it, its opposite, the ritual murder of Jews by Christians is well known. The Spanish Inquisition alone murdered about thirty thousand Jews.
Interesting. How it relates escapes me.
http://www.endtimeprophecy.net/~tttbbs/EPN-1/Articles/Articles-Abrt/babyfeet.html
Every minute of every day---400 abortions WORLDWIDE =
400 babies slaughtered per minute =
24,000 babies every hour =
576,000 babies every day =
4,032,000 babies every week =
210,240,000 tiny, helpless babies every single year in the world are killed by way of abortion!!!!
Some like to argue that the abortion issue is about womens rights and about womens bodies.
What about these peoples rights?
What about their bodies?
*EDIT* These pics are not for the faint of heart*EDIT*
Results of a suction abortion at 10 weeks:
http://www.ohiolife.org/images/picsuction.gif
Results of a salt poisoning abortion at 19 weeks:
http://www.ohiolife.org/images/picsaline.gif
Results of a prostaglandin Chemical abortion
performed at 4 months:
http://www.ohiolife.org/images/picprogl.gif
Remember a human develops a sympathetic nervous system at around 6-8 weeks. These children felt themselves being killed.
Every minute of every day---400 abortions WORLDWIDE =
400 babies slaughtered per minute =
24,000 babies every hour =
576,000 babies every day =
4,032,000 babies every week =
210,240,000 tiny, helpless babies every single year in the world are killed by way of abortion!!!!
Some like to argue that the abortion issue is about womens rights and about womens bodies.
What about these peoples rights?
What about their bodies?
*EDIT* These pics are not for the faint of heart*EDIT*
Results of a suction abortion at 10 weeks:
http://www.ohiolife.org/images/picsuction.gif
Results of a salt poisoning abortion at 19 weeks:
http://www.ohiolife.org/images/picsaline.gif
Results of a prostaglandin Chemical abortion
performed at 4 months:
http://www.ohiolife.org/images/picprogl.gif
Remember a human develops a sympathetic nervous system at around 6-8 weeks. These children felt themselves being killed.
DT I must say this, You have crossed the line on RM
It's disgusting as heck isn't it?
I know it turns my stomach. But moreso, it saddens me. Not only for the loss of life that it represents, but for the mother who for the rest of her life has to live with the knowledge that she was responsible for that.
If only one person sees those and rethinks what it really is to abort a child then posting it is justified.
Again, I'm sure glad that my Father talked my mother out of aborting an unplanned and inconvienent pregnancy.
I know it turns my stomach. But moreso, it saddens me. Not only for the loss of life that it represents, but for the mother who for the rest of her life has to live with the knowledge that she was responsible for that.
If only one person sees those and rethinks what it really is to abort a child then posting it is justified.
Again, I'm sure glad that my Father talked my mother out of aborting an unplanned and inconvienent pregnancy.
I see it as population control. We need less people in this world not more. If we can't even feed the people that are here now, why would we want to make the problem worse?
Now THAT is vile.
There are better ways of preventing population growth than sucking children out of their mothers wombs.
DT I agree with you on abortion, but the only thing showing the aborted babys does is gross people out and make you look like a creep. 
I'm ending my contribution here by stating once again:
1. The Emergency Contraceptive pill, should be standard issue to everyone.
2. Abortion is sad.
3. Teach your children about how to avoid unwanted pregnancy
I'm ending my contribution here by stating once again:
1. The Emergency Contraceptive pill, should be standard issue to everyone.
2. Abortion is sad.
3. Teach your children about how to avoid unwanted pregnancy
I agree there are better ways before conception, but when the baby's already developed I don't see another way. There are too many unwanted children in this world, why add more? That is vile.
I agree that we do need to keep the population down, and that abortion is the only way out once conception has occured. All we do is contribute to future problems. Isn't it funny that we humans are so sucessful that the eventual downfall of our species will be because we did our job too well?
I have a question for everybody: If you think that abortion shoudn't even be allowed in rape cases, what about a fallopian pregnancy or some severe defect? Should it be allowed then?
Damn true: Posting yucky pictures is not a proper way to debate. I bet we can produce tons of photogrpahs of starving children dying of diseases, but there is no need to do so. The numbers did just fine.
I have a question for everybody: If you think that abortion shoudn't even be allowed in rape cases, what about a fallopian pregnancy or some severe defect? Should it be allowed then?
Damn true: Posting yucky pictures is not a proper way to debate. I bet we can produce tons of photogrpahs of starving children dying of diseases, but there is no need to do so. The numbers did just fine.
I am intrested in our eventual downfal and how it is the resilt of our behaviour, where did you get that time machine from?
We really don't need to keep the population down so badly that every accidental child needs to be aborted.
There is plenty of excess food that could be used to feed the hungry, it would also be nice if we let farmers from third world counties sell food in our country then mabye they could use the profits to help improve their own country, or we could just kill them.
I would agree if we could feed the people that are here now, but we can't.
But we can feed all of them...
...to eachother! Another helping of Soylent Fetus please.
I got it from the Thomas Malthus Superstore. It was on sale.
I'm not advocating that they should. Perhaps the parents decide that they would like to have it. But certainly, don't make the process illegal, and please apply federal or state funding for those who can not afford it otherwise.
What the fvck happened to this place?
What do you mean?
DT, thanks for having the balls to post that. sometimes it takes a little reality to make people see that abortion isn't a political venue....it's real life.
if the problem is really about overpopulation and how to feed all of these people, then why don't we just start killing the elderly? they eat more and are a bigger drain on our economy.....but wait, they HAVE a voice to speak out against being murdered. the babies don't.
manimal said
"DT, thanks for having the balls to post that. sometimes it takes a little reality to make people see that abortion isn't a political venue....it's real life.
if the problem is really about overpopulation and how to feed all of these people, then why don't we just start killing the elderly? they eat more and are a bigger drain on our economy.....but wait, they HAVE a voice to speak out against being murdered. the babies don't."
The problem is where is the right to decide if you want to have a child let it be because of rape, premartial sex, etc.; I certainly would like the right to chose whether my partner and I had a child, and i wouldn't want you making my decision. And do you really want an unwanted child brought into this world, it would only led to neglect, and the child probably being hurt either mentally and/or physically. Techincally i wouldn't consider the child a baby while in its womb and i dont think the courts would either otherwise it would be murder but since the child is not yet alive its not.
Damn True said
"Remember a human develops a sympathetic nervous system at around 6-8 weeks. These children felt themselves being killed."
Do you have any proof of this or did you somehow talk to these soon to be children?
"DT, thanks for having the balls to post that. sometimes it takes a little reality to make people see that abortion isn't a political venue....it's real life.
if the problem is really about overpopulation and how to feed all of these people, then why don't we just start killing the elderly? they eat more and are a bigger drain on our economy.....but wait, they HAVE a voice to speak out against being murdered. the babies don't."
The problem is where is the right to decide if you want to have a child let it be because of rape, premartial sex, etc.; I certainly would like the right to chose whether my partner and I had a child, and i wouldn't want you making my decision. And do you really want an unwanted child brought into this world, it would only led to neglect, and the child probably being hurt either mentally and/or physically. Techincally i wouldn't consider the child a baby while in its womb and i dont think the courts would either otherwise it would be murder but since the child is not yet alive its not.
Damn True said
"Remember a human develops a sympathetic nervous system at around 6-8 weeks. These children felt themselves being killed."
Do you have any proof of this or did you somehow talk to these soon to be children?
I Agree!!, if the US government wasn't soo f.ucking greedy alot more lives could be saved in those third world countries.
if you want to have a child...have a child. if you don't want to have a child and, oops! she's pregnant. too bad, take responsibility and be a man/woman about it. taking the politically correct cop-out of abortion is a cowards' excuse.
"but what if the person isn't mature enough to raise a child without causing mental anguish and blah, blah, blah.." how about this. you're enough of an adult to make a baby, now you have to grow up and take care of it. we all come from dysfunctional backgrounds, get over it.
as far as rape...that's a fine line but it's still trying to erase a violent crime with murder is kind of hypocritical.
soon to be? they are beings, they are carrying on basic life functions, they have life. once you take that away you murder it. plain and simple. he doesnt need to talk to them, there is scientific evidence that there is a nervous system. use your brain and tell me what a nervous system enables you to do.
oh yea and lets kill the thing before it has a chance to be hurt. there is some backwards reasoning. that "thing" may go on to be something great. alot of people with messed up childhoods are capeable of functioning perfectly fine. if the child is unwanted give i up for adoption. there are plenty of people that want a child that are unable to have one.
Do I have proof? You are kidding me right?
Go read any 10th grade Biology textbook.
Why did I post that stuff?
I am sick and tired of weak, 1/2 a$$ed arguments full of hypotheticals, what if's, and maybe's.
(Johnny's being the most recent, but there are others..............)
Just thought I'd bring some reality to the discussion.
The reality is that those pictures are of real people and they are really dead.
The reality is that they are dead because someone was irresponsible and it was inconvienant.
Go read any 10th grade Biology textbook.
Why did I post that stuff?
I am sick and tired of weak, 1/2 a$$ed arguments full of hypotheticals, what if's, and maybe's.
(Johnny's being the most recent, but there are others..............)
Just thought I'd bring some reality to the discussion.
The reality is that those pictures are of real people and they are really dead.
The reality is that they are dead because someone was irresponsible and it was inconvienant.
Yah that about sums up your argument.....
His argument was quite valid and spoke to the root of the problem. Responsibility and concequences.
Two concepts that most people in western society have little or no understanding of.
Two concepts that most people in western society have little or no understanding of.
thats quite a self-righteous comment...
that's
9 months big deal....my girlfriend tried to use that one me...she didn't want to be uncomfortable for 9 months....ha! but I would have the child for at least 18 years!....D
What and she wouldn't have the child for at least 18 years, as well as enduring 9months of being uncomfortable.
Not all abortions are merely inconvienent.
Sure, some are the result carelessness, but what about the couple struggling to get by raising 3 kids already when their birth control fails, or the 15 year old girl who makes a horrible mistake, or any other situation along these lines.
Is it more responsible to bring a child in to the world under such circumstances? Where right off the bat their standard of life is severely disadvantaged, and couldn't possibly grow and mature at the same rate as a child in a healthy, loving, devoted family. Are they better off growing up with parents who could quite possibly resent their very existance? Is it fair to that 15 year old girl to say sorry, you have to drop out of school, get a minimum wage job waiting tables, and pray that your tips will by diapers?
I don't think so.
There are a lot of factors involved in raising a healthy, well-adjusted, loving person, and sometimes, for whatever reason, a couple, or single mother, can't provide these things, often at no fault of their own.
This issue is frequently over-simplified. It is not black and white. I really don't think that anyone can justify saying every case is wrong, or every case is right. I think depending on the scenario there can be many answers.
Sidenote: DT, going for shock value to try to make a point is a little juvenile, if I wanted to see that I'd watch FOX. We're all familiar with the fact that it's a gruesome and unpleasant process, there was no need for that.
I think the ROOT of the problem is that people can somehow call having and raising a child a consequence!
It should be a blessing.
How is someone going to raise a child properly if they see them as a consequence, or burden, or repercussion, for some "terrible" act they committed?