[SilentJ]

Nice, well though out, articulate (in non-native language), facts (not emotions or feelings). I like the way you post.

I was thinking something similar about binding between the upper and lowers. Maybe longer stantions and lowers extended below the axle (like the travis) would help.

That's heavier, though. Plus, then you might start breaking crowns and stanchions right below the crown.

How's the placement of the bushings on the boxxers? Are those breaks right where the bushing is? Just curious...I've never ridden on or had a boxxer apart.

 

[davep]

think about it for a second and try and say that ANY fork that takes a crash like that you not at least bend or crack in the same place just below the bottom bushing... or worse yet rip the headtube off if the frame was crap

so two fork broke in the same spot at the world cup level from rider error on big high spped jumps.... yeah, must be something wrong with the fork...... ever think it is an isolated incedent that comes from the highest levels of competition?

While i generally agree with your interpretation, you have let your emotions color your response.

You have no idea what forces were involved in this crash or the other ones. To say that all other brands would do the same is complete conjecture.
There have been atlest three different BWC forks that have done this and been photographed. There have been no other brands that have done this that I have seen. May people have posted, saying that they have personally seen others broken in the same manner (outside of the world cup). No one has said that they have seen the same type of failures in other brands.

You do ride R.S.....no?

 

[davep]

That's heavier, though...

And that was the point of this thread in the begining, maybe the weight is needed.

Are some current components too light?? Or is it acceptable for the most expensive items to be the least durable?

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

wow this thread is a can of worms...

 

[SilentJ]

And that was the point of this thread in the begining, maybe the weight is needed.

Oh ya!

Needed for what, though? Casing 30 foot gaps? Kind of hard to design for, IMHO. So they fix the lowers snapping issue with a bit more weight, then the stanchions start snapping at the crown so they add thickness or increase diameter, then the crowns start snapping...all on stuff that the fork was in no way designed for.

I'd hate to have to start weighing in my fork to enter a race!

 

[Inclag]

Motherf#&ckin snakes in a fork!!!!!

 

[CBJ]

lol snakes in a foooorrrrkkkk

 

[trumbullrider]

i love my boxxer, i will ride it the rest of this season and next season, then I will buy another. If it breaks, then i will send it in to get it fixed end of story.

 

[vitox]

Nice, well though out, articulate (in non-native language), facts (not emotions or feelings). I like the way you post.

I was thinking something similar about binding between the upper and lowers. Maybe longer stantions and lowers extended below the axle (like the travis) would help.

thanks, as for the lowers, yes, extending them below the axle would work, but they could also squeeze a little bit more bushing overlap (its at 5,75" now, so even 1/2" makes for a 10% gain in overlap) by prolonging the lowers upwards. you see, on an 888 the arch is very small because the top of the lowers (think the dust seal) is further up. in RS's case it would mean a redesign of the lower crown and the lowers so they will likely just do it from the ground up again.

what this means for the original argument, now that i think of it is that, no, the problem isnt the weight per se, you see, when the new 8" RS DH fork comes out, in whatever platform it turns out to be, 40mm totem or lyrik or i dunno, it most likely wont be any considerably heavier than the current boxxer WC, it will just have a chassis more optimized for 8" travel as opposed to the current one who was born at 6"

 

[jonKranked]

Motherf#&ckin snakes in a fork!!!!!

BWAHAHA! "yo dude, I got the new snake sprung Boxxer. I upgraded the cartridges from python to cobra"

 

[dhkid]

those fox 40s with the snaped arches, were they just the claimed first batch which had problems?
then again those fox forks will just need a change lowers only. those boxxers will need lowers, internals, maybe even bent stantions. i have seen first hand that the bwc this year are full of problems. alot to do mc side, if its not oil leaking out, the knobs will fly off. but props for the air system not giving many problems. bottom line, once they get the lil problems ironed out, i would use any of them.
as for 888s, the weights aren't comparible to these two.

 

[vitox]

those fox 40s with the snaped arches, were they just the claimed first batch which had problems?
then again those fox forks will just need a change lowers only. those boxxers will need lowers, internals, maybe even bent stantions. i have seen first hand that the bwc this year are full of problems. alot to do mc side, if its not oil leaking out, the knobs will fly off. but props for the air system not giving many problems. bottom line, once they get the lil problems ironed out, i would use any of them.
as for 888s, the weights aren't comparible to these two.

i agree on the solo air boxxer, its pretty good for a first year air sprung thing, mostly because the air side is having only minor problems, but they add up with the nags the MC side is having.

888 only weighs 1/2lb more than the 40 btw, actually, a ti sprung 888 is 2,5oz heavier than a 40 (done it, weighed it)

 

[dhkid]

888 only weighs 1/2lb more than the 40 btw, actually, a ti sprung 888 is 2,5oz heavier than a 40 (done it, weighed it)

now i am really baffaled by that.. it really has nothing racey about it, open bath ect.. i dont think it has paper thin stantions and lowers. i guess that all that makes the difference when you are counting grams.

 

[black noise]

Guys, this is a race fork. Race-oriented components break when you 50-50 30 foot doubles. When your fork weighs what a 40 or WC does, obviously it might not hold up to lots of abuse. That's why we have Marzocchi, for people who break Boxxers.

Light stuff breaks when you race DH on it, get over it.

 

[davep]

Wow insightful stuff there Black Noise. Show me where that fork says 'race only'. This is not a 'one off' fork made lighter for racers that are willing to take the risk for the weight savings, it is a production model, sold to the general public, made specifically for this purpose.

If it is no big deal and it is expected while racing, why are the original pictures of the broken boxxer GONE?

The differences in fork weights are a little overblown IMHO, everone is buying the very lightest parts and paying BIG $$$ to do so with the thought that they are making such a huge difference. Listen to someone like Vitox who has actually weiged these different components, it is not as much as some think. When is the last time that most of us have had the chance to weigh al the top foks together on an acurate scale?


So is that last 1, or 3, or 5 grams or ounces a fair trade off for the $$ and loss of durability? Are you willing to throw away the money ($1400 in this case) to save a little weight? Or is it that everyone thinks that these parts are so cool because that is what all the pros ride? How much of that 1400 went to pay for all of the free forks given to top riders?

 

[jonKranked]

a while back there was a thread that referred to this snappage as the "Boxxer L-Turn" and i still think its freaking hilarious.

 

[Bati]

Well, it seems 1/2 pound is a lot when some guys talk about a fork, but forget 2 or more pounds when willing a 303.

Really don't understand'em

 

[wood-dog]

Bring back the Shiver! It may have some weight to it but they don't fail like many of todays lighterweight forks. I know I put mine through hell and back and never, never, ever had any problems with it! It just kept saying to me "is that the best you can do?"
I have never seen a failed Shiver before, although I am sure that there are people out there who have but I have never heard of any and time after time I have seen other people thrash on those suckas with no problems. I feel the extra weight is worth the added security.... especially if you are not sponsered and pay retail for your equipment.
I miss my Shiver...

 

[jonKranked]

i loved my shiver too, but they aren't as good as 888's. stiffer and lighter. just as plush.

 

[Jm_]

Guys, this is a race fork. Race-oriented components break when you 50-50 30 foot doubles. When your fork weighs what a 40 or WC does, obviously it might not hold up to lots of abuse. That's why we have Marzocchi, for people who break Boxxers.

Light stuff breaks when you race DH on it, get over it.

I think that's another problem. Marzocchi is/was the only company specifically making forks for downhill that were tough and could stand up to abuse. They weren't making the shiver or Monster T to win any races, just for people that were going to go out and ride downhill a lot. Now, you've got the 888 air fork, the boxxer air fork, the fox 40 with it's thin stanchions and small volume damper, and so on. These are race forks, and they'll stand up to a decent amount of abuse, but all the companies seem to think about is "race race race" and trying to dance on that razor edge of "light" vs "too light".