[troy]

no doubt about that, i remember the video, night and day difference.

while i understand its probably a different desn/mat'l from fox's skf 'low friction' seals, they are twice as much.. i know some people have no issue dropping 70+ bones on a set of seals, but that i find it absolutely absurd.

Jeeeeeyyysssuus dude...FOX seals are 2x cheaper, because You get only 2 wiper seals instead of 2 wipers and 2 oil seals from Marzo. Really simple math. Stop whining about spending freakin 70 bucks once per 3 seasons on a 1500$ fork. You dont like it, then buy "standard" NOK seals for 30 bucks.

What's next? Filling it with engine oil to save 10 bucks?

 

[tomasis7]

but that i find it absolutely absurd.

i see you "complain" about price in your signature. Great!

 

[blindboxx2334]

What's next? Filling it with engine oil to save 10 bucks?

again, agree to disagree. also, do they really last three seasons...?

btw, i have put m1 in my 40 before. it works awesome. if you want to spend more money, then go ahead.

 

[blindboxx2334]

i see you "complain" about price in your signature. Great!

did you purchase one?

 

[Udi]

while i understand its probably a different desn/mat'l from fox's skf 'low friction' seals, they are twice as much.. i know some people have no issue dropping 70+ bones on a set of seals, but that i find it absolutely absurd.

It's the same material, but as a few people already have said the 380 runs twice as many seals (4 instead of 2), so when you replace the seals you have to buy twice as many.

I know that's crazy talk, but you'd probably also find it costs more to replace tires on a car compared to a motorbike assuming a similar quality tire. It may be because a car needs twice as many, but most likely the car shop is just trying to rip you off and you should make a fuss about how absurd they're being.

 

[blindboxx2334]

you do have a good point udi. i wouldnt mind seeing a cutaway or some sort of drawing how it works with the xtra 2 seals.

quite amazing how far certain technologies/manufacturing techniques have come along; you would think that having 2x the amount of seals would cause excessive drag/stiction.

 

[Udi]

Yeah you're on the right track, the setup they use is fairly redundant. Both seals have two lips each, which means the lower "pressure" seal has a wiper lip on top that isn't needed, and the upper "wiper" seal has a sealing lip on the underside that isn't needed. Marzocchi forks did need this in the past because they had high oil volumes as open bath dampers, and high pressures near bottom out as a result. Having two seals meant the pressure seal could be retained in the lower with a metal clip (as to not pop out under high pressures), with the wiper just pressing in on top normally.

However the new 380 doesn't have high oil volumes, shouldn't develop high pressures near bottom out, and thus doesn't really need those extra seals anymore. I think they should have gotten rid of them. However it's worth noting that more seals = more opportunities to catch and hold dirt before it gets into the oil, and while holding dirt might sound bad, it does far less damage being trapped in the seals than when it becomes part of the lubrication oil and thus subject to far higher forces when compressed between stanchions and bushings (accelerating wear).

So ultimately you have a tradeoff between a little more friction, or slightly shorter service intervals. If we were talking about a '15 380 vs. a coil 40 (whether old or '15 converted) I think the differences in any case would be minimal assuming you used the same amount of lube oil in both forks.

 

[IH8Rice]

also, do they really last three seasons...?

i replaced the seals on my 2010 888 early last year only because i got a new seal kit cheap, not because they needed to be replaced.

 

[tomasis7]

did you purchase one?

plenty of ridiculous things around, 1 million $ watch, for example. Not enough put everything in my signature.

Stickers have no function for me and quite heaaavyyyy!

 

[ZHendo]

Regarding the SKF seals, you can ofc buy cheaper non-SKF seals for normal money also. However, the SKF seals clearly produce less friction. 'Worth it' or not is up to each owner to decide.

I suppose that's true, it just gets a bit confusing when every fork maker is now claiming to make "new low-friction seals", yet prices vary so widely. If the Marz seals are employing 4 total seals instead of 2 and the seals last longer, I suppose the added cost makes a little more sense.

 

[Trasselkalle]

(Minor update for full disclosure to new readers interested in the Marzocchi 380 Ti, but long text as I suck at short replies.)

Since I asked Marz HQ (Italy) earlier in this thread, they have been very helpful in following up on any and all of my questions regarding the shim stack and spring rates, as well as any other questions/concerns I had. Brilliant support I must say and clearly caring about even the smaller questions (I was just curious). They even got in touch with Marz US, so that the issue of shim stack design and spring rate could be clarified on that end also. This means that there shouldn't be any problems from here on to get the right recommendations when speaking with the US rep. In retrospect, it wasn't fair of me earlier to suspect they were fishing for extra work as it really is more likely they simply got a bit overzealous in trying to optimize the fork and help out as much as possible, and maybe ending up overstating the need for shim stack adjustment as a result (i.e. it is more of an option for optimization rather than a need). The US rep I talked to did say he would double-check with their 380 expert, but my email probably drowned in other questions and I didn't hear back (and didn't need to remind them as I got answers elsewhere). Thus, in summary:

• Shim stack and spring rate: The standard shim stack works well with all spring rates and was designed with that in mind, rather than specifically for a particular spring rate. As with any fork, the shim stack can of course be optimized further if such need exists after the correct spring rate is found.

Furthermore, regarding some people reporting (outside this thread, but likely relevant for readers of this one also) that they are not using quite as much travel as they would like, Marz HQ recommends shortening the elastomer - or 'bumper' as they seem to call it internally - to address this. The final progression is quite significant in the 380 which works great for some, but may be a bit overkill for some. This recommendation is in line with what I reported in one of the earlier 380 threads here at RM, so it's nice to know that such adaptations can be considered as 'officially recommended' and not going against the design goals of the fork/shimstack. In that earlier thread, I was commenting based on what I could find in some of the German forums. I'm not sure where the original info came from for those posters, but I know some referred to the YT Industries 'tweak guide' for the 2014 Tues Comp Pro (which came with a 380 Ti) so it could be from there, or something YT got from Marz before listing in their guide. It was also what the Swedish Marz rep had recommended me when I asked, rather than rebuilding the shim stack as I was first recommended to do by the US rep when I was looking to get as informed about the fork as I could. The US rep was included as recipient of the last email from Marz HQ that I got today, and where this was clarified as the way to address not quite using as much travel as preferred. Therefore, I'm sure any US buyers can rest assure now that the US rep is fully informed with how Marz HQ recommends dealing with travel use. They may still of course have their own views on what is 'best' as that is a matter of opinion, but at least they are likely to present the official way as well as any adapted ways that they prefer. Heck, if you're sending the fork in for help in shortening the bumper (many may do this themselves ofc), maybe you can combine that with getting the shim stack optimized further at the same time - assuming you've got the spring rate dialed in first and have ridden enough to know for sure that you do need the bumper shortened. Thus, in summary:

• Shim stack and travel use: If you find yourself not quite using as much travel as you would like to, the recommended way to address this is to shorten the bumper so that the progression point is moved deeper into the travel - rather than adjusting the shim stack. How much depends on how much you travel you consume. The YT guide recommended 1 cm increments followed by testing before cutting any more.

In terms of my own experiences (thus far) with travel use, I'll need to ride mine in much rougher terrain than I have so far before I consider adjustments to the bumper. How much, as well as if shortening is needed at all, depends on the individual rider and cannot be assumed to be the same for even ppl of the same weight. A heavier rider with a smoother and less aggressive riding style may well use less travel than a lighter rider with a less smooth and more aggressive style. In my case, I may not need to cut mine at all once the season brings rougher riding conditions, despite being 165-170 lbs with full gear and riding the 7.7. I've decided to give it half a season or so before I even start thinking about any adaptations (aka 'ride more, think less'). Marz HQ recommended cutting 2 cm for me if I would not use more than the 17 cm I use now during lighter riding and no major jumps (hence why I suspect I won't need to cut anything once riding in rougher terrain is possible).

In terms of my own experiences (thus far) with the spring rate, I know for sure I wouldn't want a softer mid-support, but we all ride differently so I'm sure some would be happy with the 6.5 also. The fork with a 7.7 is still smooth for small bumps, but of course likely not quite as responsive as a 6.5 would be. I still feel that my fork is smoother than everything else I've tried but I'm a happy and thus likely somewhat biased customer... It is worth noting that Marz HQ also told me that some of the WC riders are on the 6.5 and find the 7.7 too stiff, so it's not an absolute must to go extra stiff. I think Marz are doing the right thing with the 2015 model by equipping it with a 6.5 Ti as the stock spring and include a 7.7 steel spring so that ppl have a cheap way of testing a stiffer spring before possibly pulling the trigger on a 7.7 Ti spring.

 

[djjohnr]

Something about the Dorado worth noting - the offset of the crowns requires a 55mm stem (with a 31.8 bar) to completely clear the uppers. You can run a 50mm stem but some portion of the bar will need to be above the legs.

 

[gemini2k]

also, do they really last three seasons...?

Alls I know is I got at least 500k vertical feet on a set of seals on my 38mm 888 (in dry California conditions). That's probably close to 3 seasons for most people. I assume the 380 uses similar seals?

BTW if anyone wants a 380, PM me. I have a few brand new ones available for pennies.

 

[mykel]

For Titanium springs - check with Zoke Canada.
I was just quoted 200.00 canadian on Monday for a 6.6 Ti spring for my 13 888 Evo.

May be worth a call regarding pricing for a 380 coil.

Zoke Canada - 604.986.3675

 

[schwaaa31]

Great info. Thanks. I'll try them tomorrow.

 

[schwaaa31]

I did call the Canadian Zoke distributor, and they do sell the ti springs for the 380 for $200 canadian plus shipping. They are still pushing for sending the fork in to have the shim stack changed out for the new spring though. They must not read RM.

 

[yd35]

They are still pushing for sending the fork in to have the shim stack changed out for the new spring though.

My inner cynic tells me that this is a money grabbing sales technique, kinda like when they try to sell you the extended warranty on an appliance. Sure, it could come in handy, but most of the time, it's a waste of money.

 

[Trasselkalle]

My inner cynic tells me that this is a money grabbing sales technique, kinda like when they try to sell you the extended warranty on an appliance. Sure, it could come in handy, but most of the time, it's a waste of money.

Good to see I'm not the only one with a grumpy inner cynic!

The US rep and the Can rep could both be leaning on some strange info, or simply don't agree with Marz HQ. To be fair, maybe the US rep knows better now after HQ contacted them and the news hasn't gone through to the Canucks just yet.

Either way, without test runs in-between changes, it seems like a crap-shoot to actually get any changes right. I'd never do it unless I was at a site that could focus on such testing for a whole day. I sincerely doubt there is a standard adaptation that transforms the shim stack into a magic wand.

 

[dtm1]

"John" @ Zocchi US (Long Beach) is still pushing the shim stack re-tune... He didn't budge a bit when I mentioned the Italy HQ's position, said that's what they've been directly told.

Hopefully not a dumb question, but anyone have any luck running a 27.5 on a 888? (I was told it will work, then it will not, then "only with a tire w/ 4mm clearance"... DHF 2.35 is OK they said???).

 

[tacubaya]

However the new 380 doesn't have high oil volumes, shouldn't develop high pressures near bottom out, and thus doesn't really need those extra seals anymore. I think they should have gotten rid of them.