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Anyone use an Ochain thingy?

boostindoubles

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
7,885
6,180
Yakistan
jrewing said:
There paints jobs are spectacular
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My first mountain bike was a Klein Attitude Comp. It was after the glory days unfortunately. I got hit by a car on that thing. I don't remember what happened to it. The paint on the pre-Trek bikes was always pretty awesome. Whenever people start talking about how great their Trek mtb is, I say, have you ever looked up the definition of the word trek?

"a long arduous journey, especially one made on foot."

So buy a Trek, go on a long walk when that shit breaks out in the woods, 10+ miles from the trailhead.

God damn Trek.

What were we talking about?
 
Milleratio

Milleratio

Chimp
Oct 24, 2021
83
62

How about some numbers, theory and calculations in Pinkbike comments instead of random mysterious historical industrial conspiracy theories.

[PINKBIKE COMMENT SECTION] said:
This isn't doing what it is claimed it does.

This doesn't negates any kickback.
This doesn't reduce forces from clutch.
It does something else.

- Kickback
If the wheel is spinning fast enough and the cranks are still, there can't be any kickback. Because there will be no torque at the freewheel, so no chain tension, so no kickback. But what is fast enough?
Let's takes some well chosen numbers, so the maths are easy but that are in the ballpark of what would be expected.
A bike with 150mm of rear wheel travel, 1:1 ratio at the drivetrain (so 28t front, 28t rear for exemple), 30° of total kickback from 0 to full travel, (that's a high value but exists on many bikes on big cogs, measured with still wheel), and 750mm of wheel diameter (29er with serious tires).
This bike would use 5mm of travel for 1° of crank rotation from kickback, or 200°/m. Meaning a serious 1.8m/s suspension speed at wheel would give a 360°/s, so 1 rotation per second, and an even more serious 3.6m/s suspension speed would give us 2 rotations per second.
The wheel has a perimeter of 2.355 m so to go fast enough to disengage freewheel it would require a 2.355m/s (8km/h, a bit faster than fast walking speed) for 1.8m/s hits, and 4.710m/s (17km/h) for a 3.6m/s hits. Both of these scenarios are using wheel travel speeds that are unlikely to occur at those bike paces. That means kickback while coasting is a really unlikely thing. So there is no way to reduce a thing that doesn't happen. And that is a "disengaging freewheel" maths, not "engaging a freewheel with some ° of play".

Forces from clutches are in th sub 100N range. That means the chain inertia alone in enough to overcome it. Chain slaps happens so it proves that point. This is a negligible thing... And chain tension uses a ratio to action the suspension that is the same idea as you'd find in a single pivot bike between shock and suspension. But the chain is much closer to the IC than the shock on a single pivot. So any force in the chain that isn't close to a force existing in a shock would be negligible anyway, even at much higher numbers than 100N. So there is no way the clutch forces can matter outside placebo plane of existence.

But, I do think the Ochain is doing something. It removes rider input from small angles. If you look at the stairs videos, look closely to the crank movements: there is some up/down movements that are coming from rider input. This has several causes, like geometry and left/right leaning of the bike, rider correcting his fore/aft position, or reflexes, mistakes, or parasitic movements... These movements can put tension on the chain as they happen at speeds in the same range as pedaling speeds or higher. There, the few ° of lag from the Ochain can totally prevent these movement from creating any force in the drivetrain. Thus creating a real feeling of "lack of chain", that would be easy to confuse with kickback effects. Note that even if the speeds are in the ballparks, I lack more precise values or real datas to prove or disprove this point.
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kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,340
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,340
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
bullcrew said:
Gonna have to say I have to take his side Woo!..He has so many more letters, numbers and words in his post it has to be real..(I didn't read it too many words, but it looks convincing)
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I'm only disagreeing with one part

he says a lot of things

almost all of it correct........except the clutch resistance is 100N therefore simple chainslap makes it disappear so it doesn't effect suspension or what an elastomer mounted chainring can account for
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,456
20,254
Sleazattle
canadmos said:
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Clearly you do not understand the importance of being correct in internet arguments.

Someday, hopefully in the distant future, you will lay on your deathbed and in retrospect will be gripped with grief over the points you didn't make over something super important like a bike part you never had an interest in purchasing.
 
canadmos

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,533
19,536
Canaderp
Westy said:
Clearly you do not understand the importance of being correct in internet arguments.

Someday, hopefully in the distant future, you will lay on your deathbed and in retrospect will be gripped with grief over the points you didn't make over something super important like a bike part you never had an interest in purchasing.
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My bad.

Please accept this as a token of my apology, for I have shamed my family name.

I will be heavily weighted by this, on said deathbed, one day.
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,340
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
Westy said:
Clearly you do not understand the importance of being correct in internet arguments.

Someday, hopefully in the distant future, you will lay on your deathbed and in retrospect will be gripped with grief over the points you didn't make over something super important like a bike part you never had an interest in purchasing.
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I for one appreciate the hard work you put into the matter. I'm way too lazy to actually demonstrate it to these heathens.

Westy said:
Old single pivot XC bike is the only thig that would fit on the trainer without a lot more work than I was willing to do.

Worst case scenario in granny gear. Let out a bunch of air in the shock so I could move it as fast as possible. Static text shows it is capable of pedal kickback by significant crank motion. Then got the rear rolling , SLOWLY, no perceptible crank motion. I can repeat this a bunch of times with the same results.

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bullcrew

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Dec 8, 2004
8,911
2,574
I'm dude playing dude pretending to b another dude
Well the only regrets I'll have is not tryng backflips and getting a solid superman seat grab, no foot cancan and a couple other items..a massive drop and or gap....
Squirrel suit jump in a canyon, belly flop from 30'+, fighting in the cage/ring again (just a couple more times)...

Hate regrets, So I'll knock down the list...


Oh and not trying the o-chain, I know ill lay awake at night thinking back " the one time" I could have really chapped woos hide! And rode the best invention know to man!
 
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sethimus

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,976
2,189
not in Whistler anymore :/
bullcrew said:
Well the only regrets I'll have is not tryng backflips and getting a solid superman seat grab, no foot cancan and a couple other items..a massive drop and or gap....
Squirrel suit jump in a canyon, belly flop from 30'+, fighting in the cage/ring again (just a couple more times)...


Oh and not trying the o-chain, I know ill lay awake at night thinking back " the one time" I could have really chapped woos hide! And rode the best invention know to man!
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you still ride bikes. that’s a forever 1up so just nod and smile at him
 
Muddy

Muddy

ancient crusty bog dude
Jul 7, 2013
2,032
908
Free Soda Refills at Fuddruckers
I for one never grasped it but, there's WC level sponsorship in 2024? Is this right where a Team has this... lack of support??

Someone on PB sure has a bee in their bonnet over one but is difficult to determine if they are still praising this dumb thing. Which is all it is - another dumb item made for Cockroaches.
 
saruti

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,169
73
Israel
anyone here use the WRP?
I think its a great thing... wonder how its in the real world.
any way, who needs brake floaters when you can just ride a FSR?
 
Lelandjt

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,516
829
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
saruti said:
anyone here use the WRP?
I think its a great thing... wonder how its in the real world.
any way, who needs brake floaters when you can just ride a FSR?
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I like the look of their Scott Genius mullet link, but I assume you're talking about their crank spider freewheel and DT hub freewheel lockout kit. That looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
 
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