[englertracing]

I'm 175lbs
A blue spring 40lb in rides low with a bunch of preload... Sucks
A green spring 45lb in with no preload rides a bit high and skips out.... Sucks

A goride "dual rate" spring which actually produces an average rate not dual rate as advertised would be ideal. I could run a 45+40 and make a 42.5 but great now its not avaliable anymore and too expensive aneyhoo.

So I was thinking about whacking a coil off the blue spring. By my calcs. Is a bit conservative. Then I thought hey why cut it when I could just disable a coil. I can slip a plastic tube inside the coil and wrap a piece of aluminum between the coils and epoxy it to the tube to lock out a coil

Anyways anyone ever cut one?

 

[tuumbaq]

I would recommend you use duck tape and bacon instead of aluminum and epoxy lol

Serisoulsy though , I can't help , never done it but it does sound like a terrible idea to me.

 

[EVRAC]

Spring rate has nothing to do with spring length. You'll have a spring that's the wrong rate and the wrong length.

 

[b.utters]

That is probably the worst idea ever. Gain or lose 5kg. by the sounds of it that will probably get you into a weight range that suits one of the springs.

Alternatively buy an air sprung for so you can set any spring rate you want.

 

[baca262]

step 1: find a spring manufacturer

step 2: measure your spring, give the spring manufacturer the measurements and the spring constant you want

step 3: ?????

step 4: profit!!1

seriously though, you might be doing something wrong if you can't set up any of those springs to your liking or you are very picky and know exactly what you are looking for. do try to get a spring made, it could actually end up being cheaper than a original fox spring.

 

[englertracing]

Spring rate has nothing to do with spring length. You'll have a spring that's the wrong rate and the wrong length.

Go back to high school....
Take one spring squeeze it easy. stack two -- squeeze them half as stiff. cut one in half doubly as stiff as the original.
Schooled. In physics. By prof Aaron englert.
Ya bogan.

Also I have an effing lathe... Spacer Duh.

 

[englertracing]

step 1: find a spring manufacturer

step 2: measure your spring, give the spring manufacturer the measurements and the spring constant you want

step 3: ?????

step 4: profit!!1

seriously though, you might be doing something wrong if you can't set up any of those springs to your liking or you are very picky and know exactly what you are looking for. do try to get a spring made, it could actually end up being cheaper than a original fox spring.

Already tried. There's a spring co down the street and they want 300 per steel spring and can't deliver the proper dimensions anyways...


Extremely picky.... I need absolute confidence in my machine. And BTW I'm no dumbass to the jerks with snyde replys.
I bet you bogans don't even open your cartridges. Let alone shocks.

 

[englertracing]

step 1: find a spring manufacturer

step 2: measure your spring, give the spring manufacturer the measurements and the spring constant you want

step 3: ?????

step 4: profit!!1

seriously though, you might be doing something wrong if you can't set up any of those springs to your liking or you are very picky and know exactly what you are looking for. do try to get a spring made, it could actually end up being cheaper than a original fox spring.

Already tried. There's a spring co down the street and they want 300 per steel spring and can't deliver the proper dimensions anyways...


Extremely picky.... I need absolute confidence in my machine. And BTW I'm no dumbass to the jerks with snyde replys.
I bet you bogans don't even open your cartridges. Let alone shocks.

 

[englertracing]

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/963738-making-a-spring-stiffer-by-shortening-it/page__fromsearch__1

Sorry but most ride monkey lurkers are just weenies. "Oh no my 40 bladders blown. off to the lbs"
Thumped talk members are a little more sophisticated.

Good day panty waists.....

 

[baca262]

Already tried. There's a spring co down the street and they want 300 per steel spring and can't deliver the proper dimensions anyways...


Extremely picky.... I need absolute confidence in my machine. And BTW I'm no dumbass to the jerks with snyde replys.
I bet you bogans don't even open your cartridges. Let alone shocks.

?!?!? 300$ for a spring? are they fvcking high? i can get one made for 20-30$ around here!

btw don't worry, there are many monkeys who like to tinker with suspension around here but there are some tools too. if you really go and cut the spring, make sure it will have enough travel and put the cut end on the fixed side, bend the wire in and wrap it with something so it can't scratch the stanchion inside. it there's enough travel left in the spring i don't see why it wouldn't work.

EDIT - another idea would be to compress the portion of the spring you want to deactivate using a vice or something and tightly tie it with a fishing line (if there's enough room to fit the spring with the line), this is more work but reversible.

 

[Udi]

englertracing -
The best option will be to disable a coil like you describe. If you cut it off you'll have trouble getting the end coil flat enough and may experience increased coil rub / noise - which is something that already plagues a lot of coil forks and is best not to worsen. You are absolutely correct that decreasing the number of coils will increase the spring rate. Perhaps disable them in a reversible manner before locking it in permanently so you can get the exact rate you are happy with. Clearly you know what you want and know what you are doing - I say go ahead with option two if you can figure out a neat way to do it.

By the way - there are plenty of knowledgeable members here on the monkey but being condescending and calling them bogans isn't going to encourage them to help you.

Sincerely,
An unsophisticated bogan that never opens his cartridges.

 

[Sandwich]

I don't care if you're right, you're a tool.

 

[jonKranked]

Already tried. There's a spring co down the street and they want 300 per steel spring and can't deliver the proper dimensions anyways...


Extremely picky.... I need absolute confidence in my machine. And BTW I'm no dumbass to the jerks with snyde replys.
I bet you bogans don't even open your cartridges. Let alone shocks.

you posted here and honestly expected nothing but serious responses? Id argue that makes you a dumbass.

 

[certified]

Already tried. There's a spring co down the street and they want 300 per steel spring and can't deliver the proper dimensions anyways...


Extremely picky.... I need absolute confidence in my machine. And BTW I'm no dumbass to the jerks with snyde replys.
I bet you bogans don't even open your cartridges. Let alone shocks.

I agree, If you ask a solid question on here you get a ton of smart ass replies, its annoying some people have nothing better to do but annoy people, sitting on their PC cowardly writing stupid negative ****,
If you have nothing good to say say nothing.

 

[Sandwich]

Nice...thirteen posts here and you **** on us. Go back to pinkbike. You ask a stupid question, you get stupid responses. This jackass came here and asked a question that involves cutting up a perfectly good spring in a manner you'd see on a 92 civic, called us all "bogans" (whatever the **** that is), then answered his own question. One or two people tried to answer, but engelbert Humperdick couldn't be bothered to have a discussion, decided he was right, and went off to take another pull off his bong. There are plenty of really good technical discussions here, and lots of good **** making fun of people trying to hard or over thinking things.

 

[EVRAC]

removed because it was too hostile.

 

[Udi]

EVRAC -
I think you've misunderstood what he's trying to do here, and you are actually incorrect on a few counts (not to disrespect your background or teaching).

1. Shortening a spring will increase its rate, with all else being equal. If you take a linear 20in/lb spring and cut it in half, it will have half the stroke, and will now be a 40in/lb spring (i.e. it will now take 40lbs to compress one inch). Read post #4 here if that still doesn't make sense. Two problems are introduced by cutting however, the first obviously being the reduction in stroke (possibly resulting in coil-bind or shortening of spring life - however I doubt coil-bind is a cause for concern in this particular application), and the second being a malformed end on the spring which I do think is a cause for concern and covered this in my previous post.

2. He's not making a preload spacer as you've (incorrectly) assumed. What he's taking about making is a spacer to take up the free space created above the spring by cutting a coil off it. It will not add preload as it will only be tall enough to take up the space, and its purpose is not to change the spring rate.

The alternative solution which he also detailed is to 'disable' the same amount of the spring that he would have otherwise cut off (with some fabrication work), which is in my opinion the best solution - as it will provide the increase in rate, while not requiring the spring to be cut (or a spacer), will keep the end of the coil in shape and intact, and will be reversible if the end result is not satisfactory. Rockshox actually use this exact principle in their coil u-turn forks (in the form of a dynamic adjustment) to increase the spring rate as travel is reduced.

Hope that is a satisfactory explanation. I'm not endorsing either solution, or his attitude, but his theory is legitimate and correct.

 

[Verskis]

Wow, I'm happy EVRAC was not my teacher.

 

[IH8Rice]

im sorry youre wrong

 

[certified]

Nice...thirteen posts here and you **** on us. Go back to pinkbike. You ask a stupid question, you get stupid responses. This jackass came here and asked a question that involves cutting up a perfectly good spring in a manner you'd see on a 92 civic, called us all "bogans" (whatever the **** that is), then answered his own question. One or two people tried to answer, but engelbert Humperdick couldn't be bothered to have a discussion, decided he was right, and went off to take another pull off his bong. There are plenty of really good technical discussions here, and lots of good **** making fun of people trying to hard or over thinking things.

Hey I'm not trying to **** on "us" when you say "us" you are generalising everyone on ridemonkey, there is some really helpful people on ridemonkey, and lots of different personalities so I think my post is just as relevant as any others unless there is a "click" here but its a public forum so I don't see the issue with my number of posts.

I don't think there is such thing as a stupid question when you are talking about stuff like springs and spring rates. He wasn't asking how he can saw through his chainstay to fix his puncture.... It takes quite a while to work out the suspension side of mountain biking, and I thought his question was kind of interesting... I am interested in what people can do with springs, I have heard of people cutting springs before heating them and stretching parts of them years ago so its interesting stuff.

I dont think its cool making fun of people who are generally asking for help, as you say people who are trying too hard... the only ones I see trying too hard are people posting idiotic unfunny smart ass replies tinted with negativity... and trying too hard to be funny when they are not, at the end of the day they are just dorks on the internet typing on their machine looking for acceptance, the same type of troll that post tons of stupid stuff on their facebook seeking constant approval.
The guys that post questions are just looking for answers, and I don't see how they are trying too hard.

I think less of the arrogance and negativity on here, the guy above saying its a stupid question and then going ahead with the answer ... what is that about? looking for approval from peers... what happened to modesty... as they say.... If you have wit and learning, add to it wisdom and modesty.

 

[Sandwich]

Hey I'm not trying to **** on "us" when you say "us" you are generalising everyone on ridemonkey, there is some really helpful people on ridemonkey, and lots of different personalities so I think my post is just as relevant as any others unless there is a "click" here but its a public forum so I don't see the issue with my number of posts.

I am generalizing everybody on ridemonkey when I say "us" because that's who "we" are. "we" discuss mountain bikes and DH bikes in particular. "we" consists of armchair racers, amateur racers, pro racers, and "we" even have some really, really knowledgeable people, like Udi, Socket/Steve, and even DW comes on to discuss his designs. "you" are a person with very few posts, suggesting you haven't been an active member for a long time, and you seem to think you're fit to judge us as a forum because some of us poke fun at people asking how they can get an extra .125* off their HA, and whether that will make them a faster rider.

I don't think there is such thing as a stupid question when you are talking about stuff like springs and spring rates. He wasn't asking how he can saw through his chainstay to fix his puncture.... It takes quite a while to work out the suspension side of mountain biking, and I thought his question was kind of interesting... I am interested in what people can do with springs, I have heard of people cutting springs before heating them and stretching parts of them years ago so its interesting stuff.

Yes, there are stupid questions. "Can I replace my springs with elastomers". I agree that englert's question wasn't inherently stupid, but it is potentially risky and would require a significant amount of fabrication to do it right in a manner that won't fail. You probably wouldn't want to attempt this as a garage mechanic with no experience and only a pipe wrench to work with, and he certainly doesn't come across as a professional mechanic with access to a machine shop and an engineering degree, but rather as a stoned out redneck with a stick up his ass and a superiority complex.

I dont think its cool making fun of people who are generally asking for help, as you say people who are trying too hard... the only ones I see trying too hard are people posting idiotic unfunny smart ass replies tinted with negativity... and trying too hard to be funny when they are not, at the end of the day they are just dorks on the internet typing on their machine looking for acceptance, the same type of troll that post tons of stupid stuff on their facebook seeking constant approval.
The guys that post questions are just looking for answers, and I don't see how they are trying too hard.

No, the people trying to hard are the ones concerned with gaining the extra 2mm off their BB height, are concerned with how well their "kit" matches their "colourway" and feel a need to have the lighted session on the internet, regardless of whether it makes it down the mountain more than once. There are a lot of good, active, technical discussions with some really qualified individuals. Yes, there are some discussions that digress and get out of hand (the race prep question is a good example) but more often than not, genuine questions get genuine answers, and things like that need to be teased out personally, because what works for one person may not work for another.

I think less of the arrogance and negativity on here, the guy above saying its a stupid question and then going ahead with the answer ... what is that about? looking for approval from peers... what happened to modesty... as they say.... If you have wit and learning, add to it wisdom and modesty.

Dude...a guy poses a tricky technical question asking whether he can do something that virtually nobody has done and very, very few would want to do, then when somebody makes a suggestion that doesn't follow what he believes is correct, he launches into a personal attack and calls us all bogans (I still don't know what that means, do I need to get high to understand it?), and now you expect the person who got insulted to show some humility and modesty? The OP is the dick here, and could certainly learn a few things about modesty and wisdom, and a little less about bogans and skunk weed.

 

[BigBoi]

Don't knock the skunk weed

 

[jonKranked]

Hey I'm not trying to **** on "us" when you say "us" you are generalising everyone on ridemonkey, there is some really helpful people on ridemonkey, and lots of different personalities so I think my post is just as relevant as any others unless there is a "click" here but its a public forum so I don't see the issue with my number of posts.

I don't think there is such thing as a stupid question when you are talking about stuff like springs and spring rates. He wasn't asking how he can saw through his chainstay to fix his puncture.... It takes quite a while to work out the suspension side of mountain biking, and I thought his question was kind of interesting... I am interested in what people can do with springs, I have heard of people cutting springs before heating them and stretching parts of them years ago so its interesting stuff.

I dont think its cool making fun of people who are generally asking for help, as you say people who are trying too hard... the only ones I see trying too hard are people posting idiotic unfunny smart ass replies tinted with negativity... and trying too hard to be funny when they are not, at the end of the day they are just dorks on the internet typing on their machine looking for acceptance, the same type of troll that post tons of stupid stuff on their facebook seeking constant approval.
The guys that post questions are just looking for answers, and I don't see how they are trying too hard.

I think less of the arrogance and negativity on here, the guy above saying its a stupid question and then going ahead with the answer ... what is that about? looking for approval from peers... what happened to modesty... as they say.... If you have wit and learning, add to it wisdom and modesty.

that's what we do here.

 

[juanbeegas]

I don't really have anything to add to this... I just wanted to say, a "bogan" is the aussie equivalent of a redneck/trailer park trash.

 

[jonKranked]

I don't really have anything to add to this... I just wanted to say, a "bogan" is the aussie equivalent of a redneck/trailer park trash.

i can't imagine an entire island nation of nothing but rednecks and trailer trash

 

[TWeerts]

RM needs to host a webinar all about cutting springs

...then one discussing how to bash people for asking questions, cause im not as good as the rest of you chimps

 

[jonKranked]

RM needs to host a webinar all about cutting springs

it'd be short and simple: it would consist of someone saying "don't do it"

 

[William42]

man this thread got good.

 

[englertracing]

I softened a firm spring rather than stiffening my medium spring.

Problem solved. I cut a perfectly good spring and a perfectly good teflon rod.
Cut my steel spring and bought a ti green to go below it. (note the spring on the right is a full intact titanium green spring that was a bacth to find)
Should work out to a 42-43lb per inch spring. Right between a blue and green spring.


I'm sure there will be some who still argue that I stiffened, softened, did nothing, or wrapped it in Bacon and duct tape.
.

 

[Sandwich]

Sir Boganus,
Any ride time on it yet? If so, any rub, or did it work as intended?

 

[gnarbar]

called us all "bogans" (whatever the **** that is)

hillbilly or redneck, dumb****, sorta kinda

Wiki: The term bogan is Australian and New Zealand slang, usually pejorative or self-deprecating, for an individual who is recognised to be from a lower-class background or someone whose limited education, speech, clothing, attitude and behaviour exemplifies such a background.While Bogan is widely recognised, localised names exist that describe the same or very similar groups of people

http://www.bogan.com.au/

 

[englertracing]

Sir Boganus,
Any ride time on it yet? If so, any rub, or did it work as intended?

Works good. The od of the teflon is larger than the spring. Fits in the tube with around 0.030" and slides buttery smooth. It seats in the spring.

Definently softened the stiff spring. And I can sure tell the difference from the ti green to the steel green. It balances the ride properly.

I only gave if a easy ride on a gmr west.
I have a torn acl and haven't gotten it fixed because I can't miss work (lots of summer o.t. and d.t.) so I can't ride it hard. But from what I can tell it balenced the bike but isnt harsh. So..... Win.
If anyone needs. I have more teflon and spring. Also Bacon and tape if you wanna give it a go.

 

[csermonet]

Sorry to ressurect a dead thread. But to "soften" the green spring, you simply lengthened the spring by the length that the travel spacers took up? I run a green steel spring but have a ti coming in the mail next week. Could do this mod relatively cheap if I feel the need.

 

[englertracing]

Sorry to ressurect a dead thread. But to "soften" the green spring, you simply lengthened the spring by the length that the travel spacers took up? I run a green steel spring but have a ti coming in the mail next week. Could do this mod relatively cheap if I feel the need.

Thats correct.
There's a few reasons I did this because of how it feels.
Well the blue spring blew through and Hung up on things rode low in the stroke and brake dove like hell even at full preload
I stiffened the base valve in the cartridge by adding and extra face shim.
It was better but still had many of the same problems.
I tried a green spring steel the bike seemed better balanced but would kind of skip across the trail and run wide and kinda harsh on chatter even with 0 preload.

Figured part was due to the increaced mass of the steel spring. Ordered a ti green, another improvement reacted faster to chop but would still cause me to run wide and require me to exercise much more caution on rough turns.

I decided I needed an imbetween rate and let me tell you what its perfect.

Now does everyone need to do this? No. But your bike has to be balanced front to rear for your style/and riding type.
In my mind someone who bombs Verry steep trails will want a stiffer front softer rear than someone who rides less steep trails.

Or if your stuck with a shock spring rate slightly too high and your forks are properly sprung your rear will overpower the front and you will have a funky working/feeling.

But its largely personal preference. Do what feels right. I am Verry picky so I have to do a lot more fiddling with shims and springs than other people because I know what it can/should feel like. If its not working right I'm thinking my hole ride "this is **** it shouldn't feel this way I'm going to tear this **** down when I get home". I'm not satisfied with **** or with what everyone else is running around with because "well its good stock because the price tag is high"

Anyways yes I just replaced the spacers. And it works Awsome. I achieved a proper f/r spring balance for my style/terrain/preference. Your results may vary.

Also if you wanted the parts made englertracing@yahoo.com

 

[WestCoastHucker]

Sorry to ressurect a dead thread...

don't be sorry. hearing everyone called 'bogans' was just as funny the second time around...

 

[jonKranked]

don't be sorry. hearing everyone called 'bogans' was just as funny the second time around...

that's a load of bollocks

 

[fred.r]

I'm changing my name to "Dwangus Bogans" now. It has a nice ring to it.

 

[englertracing]

I'm changing my name to "Dwangus Bogans" now. It has a nice ring to it.

This is what a bogan really is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA8gJoT5yl4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[WestCoastHucker]

that's totally fred...