[BmxConvert]

So after 11 weeks of waiting and racing the first 3 races of the season on 3 different bikes my M3 finally showed up. I'm psyched.

Ok so it's not really "superlight", but damn impressive for an 11lbs frame.

This is how my living room and bike room sat while I waited for the frame

Built

Specs:
Intense M3 medium "works" finish
Manitou Swinger 6-way w/steel 400lb spring
Boxxer WC
Sunline Direct Mount stem
Sunline V1 bars
Odi Ruffian Lock Ons
Avid Juicy Carbon brakes 8" front 6" rear
WTB LaserDisc FR wheelset
Shimano XT cassette
Sram X9 Short cage r, Derailleur
Sram X9 Shifter
Bontrager Race Xlite Pro saddle
Bontrager Race Xlite ACC seatpost (carbon with a sliver of aluminum for support)
Shimano Saint 170mm cranks
Race Face 36T DH ring
Sram PC-990 Hollowpin Chain
Welgo MG-1 pedals
Gamut guide
Michelin DH16 2.5 front tire
Michelin DH24 2.2 rear tire
Bontrager 26" standard tubes
Target weight: 40lbs, achieved weight: 38lbs

I got the bike together Wed. night and didn't have a chance to ride until this morning. This beast is a blast. I do have a little bit of concern with my setup though. The amount of sag I have is somewhat "correct" for my weight but I'm skeptical. The E2E of the shock is 240mm, when I'm on the bike in riding position the E2E is 223mm. Thats approximately 25.5% of the travel, the ideal sag is 30%, however I feel like I'm sagged too far as it is when I'm pedaling or cruising around, once I get going down the hill, I dont notice. Should I go ahead and drop it down to the full 30% sag?

I certainly feel that its not a supple as I would like. It's certainly plush on jumps and hits, but plowing rock gardens could be a bit smoother.

Any M3 owners with setup tips?

As for the weight it tips the scales at 38lbs even, however I didnt get an axle from Intense so I borrowed the stock steel axle from my Session10 which weighs in at 1.5lbs(stupid as ....). Once I get a hollow aluminum rear axle I'll be set. Next season I'll switch to the new FSA Gravity Light cranks to save about 200g, along with a Ti spring for the rear shock, road cassette, ceramic bottom bracket and possibly new tires(we'll see how the Michelins do. At 1400g they are a bit of a pig). That should save me about a pound, in addidtion to whatever I lose in the rear axle.

--------------------------------

I finally got some ride time on the bike. Not much, but SHEEEESH! I can't wait for the next race! You guys were correct, I was off on my weights. I've swapped out the rear axle, installed the bashring and chain/seatstay protector and the weight is now 39lbs(so says the shop scale, which has been accurate in the past).

-Kevin

 

[dklopp]

Man...it must have sucked waiting that long with so many awesome parts just laying around with no frame. Awesome build though- I love the works finish.

 

[jvnixon]

That bike looks sweet! I've always liked the way m3's look.

38 though... a bit generous?

Using your numbers and a few real #'s
Brakes (adapters&bolts) ~655g
Rotors 291g
Shift housing 70g
83mm Saint ~1000g
990 HP chain ~260g
RF Chainring&bolts ~69g
Gamut boomerang ~170g
Rear x9 short 203g
Boxxer WC 2790g
Frame 4994g
bars ~265g
grips 125g
headset+headlock ~200g
pedals - 377
Seat ~180g
post ~215g
shift -110g
stem -177g
tires - 2800g
Axle - 681g
XC Tubes - ~360g
velox - 30g
Wheelset ~2050g
=40.42lbs without a bashguard

 

[bullcrew]

D@mn you almost got it light enough for the sub 40 post.


Sorry to Hijack:
JV I have a sample Im sending should fit. Built a computer the other took a poo! Then lightning struck the lines on thursday so I spent thur/friday fixing stuff and flashing a bios. Then went tec liquid cooled on the cpu and frosted it up so I had to insulate the cpu area and socket of the board.....


BTW thats a SICK bike.

Nice base board heater! Miss the single days of drunk and passed out on the floor and listening to my little base board popping and tinging. AHHHH The good ol days of apartments.

 

[SteezyWeezy]

depending of your weight, my guess is you could get away with a little bit lighter spring. about the tires, they are actually not super heavy, compared to maxxis high rollers/minions i think they're at least 50g lighter, and in wheel weight thats a diff.

bike looks sick, raw is real

 

[Rip]

Put some xt cranks on instead to get it below 40

 

[Lollapalooza]

Put some xt cranks on instead to get it below 40

XT's don't come in an 83mm version. This is the third post I've seen today where people have recommended non-compatible cranks. Sick build though.

 

[ZHendo]

dammmmmmmn sexy, i actually kind of like those wtb wheels.

 

[bullcrew]

XT's don't come in an 83mm version. This is the third post I've seen today where people have recommended non-compatible cranks. Sick build though.

Forget about him! get some xt's anywase.

 

[E.T.]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you HAVE to run a bashguard with your Gamut guide. They are not designed to be used without the PROVIDED bash guard. IT WILL NOT WORK. That is like taking the spring out of a coil fork to save weight. It coompletely defeats the purpose. TRUST ME!

If you want to save some weight get a ti spring for that shock. You could potentially drop 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound or more depending on your spring rate and size. For your sag you should ask intense what is recommended for optimal pedaling. VPP bikes are designed to run a certain amount of sag to work properly. Too much or too little and you aren't getting the proper ride out of your VPP bike. According to the Linkage program you should be running about 20-21mm of sag on the shock. This will achieve about 1/3 sag at the rear wheel (approx. 33%).

Can anyone confirm proper sag settings for the M3?

Dont forget that your bike has a whopping 9.5" of travel so it will probably feel a bit softer properly sprung than any "Normal" 8" bike.

Just my 2 cents.

-Evan

 

[BmxConvert]

That bike looks sweet! I've always liked the way m3's look.

38 though... a bit generous?

Using your numbers and a few real #'s
Brakes (adapters&bolts) ~655g
Rotors 291g
Shift housing 70g
83mm Saint ~1000g
990 HP chain ~260g
RF Chainring&bolts ~69g
Gamut boomerang ~170g
Rear x9 short 203g
Boxxer WC 2790g
Frame 4994g
bars ~265g
grips 125g
headset+headlock ~200g
pedals - 377
Seat ~180g
post ~215g
shift -110g
stem -177g
tires - 2800g
Axle - 681g
XC Tubes - ~360g
velox - 30g
Wheelset ~2050g
=40.42lbs without a bashguard

A number of those weights are off. I've weighed it on 4 different digital scales. Theres no need to add rotors to the brake system weights, or chainring bolts to the cranks, the seat and post weights are off. I have a spreadsheet of the weights that I measured. I'll have to dig it up.

-Kevin

 

[bullcrew]

Dude the bike is probably right on the 40lb side of things, I have a super bling build on a 12lb set up and Im at 39.8. Still a sweet bike no ? about it.
Its no big deal, just go Ti on the spring and a lighter set of cranks and your there. Id run it that way though its SICK!

Had to edit: you need to remove the pic I keep going back and looking at it. I need to break away from the comp........The raw frame is SICK!!! tough but clean.

 

[BmxConvert]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you HAVE to run a bashguard with your Gamut guide. They are not designed to be used without the PROVIDED bash guard. IT WILL NOT WORK. That is like taking the spring out of a coil fork to save weight. It coompletely defeats the purpose. TRUST ME!

If you want to save some weight get a ti spring for that shock. You could potentially drop 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound or more depending on your spring rate and size. For your sag you should ask intense what is recommended for optimal pedaling. VPP bikes are designed to run a certain amount of sag to work properly. Too much or too little and you aren't getting the proper ride out of your VPP bike. According to the Linkage program you should be running about 20-21mm of sag on the shock. This will achieve about 1/3 sag at the rear wheel (approx. 33%).

Can anyone confirm proper sag settings for the M3?

Dont forget that your bike has a whopping 9.5" of travel so it will probably feel a bit softer properly sprung than any "Normal" 8" bike.

Just my 2 cents.

-Evan

I didn't install the Gamut guard simply because I didnt have a grinder hand to grind the guard to fit the Saint cranks. The clearances are too close. I haven't had time to get the guard ready. It will be on by the next time I ride though.

Sag should be 30% for the VPP bikes. My spring is #400, Intense said that it should be 450 for my weight, yet I had to back off the preload 5-6 full turns to get it to sag more than 20% when it arrived.

-Kevin

-Kevin

 

[bullcrew]

I didn't install the Gamut guard simply because I didnt have a grinder hand to grind the guard to fit the Saint cranks. The clearances are too close. I.

-Kevin

-Kevin

Yep I know that one, I have middleburns and had to grind the gamut. Its a tough bash i have chok marks all over it and its still holding. Impacted it repeatedly and still holding up.

 

[Pbody]

I certainly feel that its not a supple as I would like. It's certainly plush on jumps and hits, but plowing rock gardens could be a bit smoother.

Any M3 owners with setup tips?

If that Manitou Swinger has SPV in it, get rid of that shock and get something with no platform valving (Romic) or one that you can turn it off (Fox DHX)

 

[Udi]

38 though... a bit generous?

Yeah I'm with jvn here, 38 is pretty generous for that build. Having built similar weight frames with FAR lighter parts, and still not coming to a figure that light, I'd say you've messed up somewhere or your numerous scales are wrong.

 

[jvnixon]

A number of those weights are off. I've weighed it on 4 different digital scales. Theres no need to add rotors to the brake system weights, or chainring bolts to the cranks, the seat and post weights are off. I have a spreadsheet of the weights that I measured. I'll have to dig it up.

-Kevin

This isn't pinkbike. Please tell me how you stop without rotors? I've weighed your exact brakes and even given you some leeway.

One example.
Front brake (caliper, hose, lever only) - 280g
Rear brake (caliper, hose, lever only) - 296
203mm avid rotor - 181g
Avid CPS washers/bolt (10g ea) - 40g
Adapter bolts (5g each) - 20g
160mm avid rotor - 89g
Front boxxer adapter - 44g
Rear adapter - 25g
Disc rotor bolts - 24g
999g total (i gave you a lower weight at 946g to be optimistic if you did something out of the ordinary)

Some of the weights are estimates (~), but they're accurate estimates. For the ones like the seatpost and seat, i took directly from the manufacturer which often uses exaggerated weights. Feel free to change all the numbers i put in there to the right ones.

Nice bike, its not 38 so don't kid yourself

 

[BmxConvert]

I dont know, maybe its not 38. It's damn light though, much more so than the old Session 10 or Session 77. I weighed it multiple times on different scales and got 38 each time so that's what I went with.
Who knows. I've still got a bundle of weight to drop and it rides like its lighter than it is.

I'm psyched for this coming season and the last race of this year.
Better pics Tuesday.

-Kevin

 

[BmxConvert]

New pics have been posted. So far I'm really liking the Swinger 6way. The upgrade/swap list is growing daily. So far though, the M3 is far better than my Session10, Session77 or any of the other bikes I own/owned.

-Kevin

 

[bullcrew]

Its as sweet ride none the less, even if it was 40 its still a hard core machine...
Mines 39.8 and I have a ton into mine with a load of help from this forum as well as Nixon. Id like to be lighter but under 40 for me is good, I hit my mark.

 

[BmxConvert]

40 was my mark as well. I was over it before swapping the rear axle. So I'm very pleased as the bike rides like its even lighter. I see so many ways to swap out parts for lighter stuff though.

-Kevin

 

[SteezyWeezy]

Its as sweet ride none the less, even if it was 40 its still a hard core machine...
Mines 39.8 and I have a ton into mine with a load of help from this forum as well as Nixon. Id like to be lighter but under 40 for me is good, I hit my mark.

what happened to the canfield?

 

[mattmatt86]

^^Where did you find it?

 

[CMAC]

i just nutted. a session 10 and then you go with an m3. what a ****ing combo. im gonna clean up my mess

 

[BmxConvert]

i just nutted. a session 10 and then you go with an m3. what a ****ing combo. im gonna clean up my mess

The session 10 is an interesting story. Seriously, I had some real issues with that bike, but at the same time I really liked alot of the bike.
I'll break it down this way.
Chainstays are too long, bottom bracket is too low, top tube is too long, it pedals efficiently but the placement of the anti-torque pulley trys to keep the suspension from being active any time there is pressure on the pedals, your stuck with an 8" rotor in the back, dirt fills the linkages and causes loss of travel, Trek couldn't get their pivot welded straight.

Perhaps the 4 Session10 frames I recieved were freak accidents being as I got mine right when the 10 came out. The first 3 frames bound up with any tension on the pivots bolts, the 4th frame works, but the Revox shaft is bent due to the previous frames being off. None of the frames have the same measurements that Trek claims on their website. However all those issues have since been taken care of and the real issue begins.

I loved the way the frame rode through the really fast steep smooth stuff. The rear suspension is not any where near as active as my Session 77 or M3, leaving a bit to be desired in heavy rock sections. Now when I finally got a frame setup and working correctly it was a very nice ride in all conditions. The current 10 frame being used is straight and all the measurements are spot on. However, I sold it to a co-worker, complete bike for an AMAZING DEAL(i.e. less than an M3 frames costs) including the Hopes, X0 short cage(which I added). It's been 11 months and he's paid me $400, it's been 4 months since the last payment which was $100, and prior to that it was another 3 month wait for a payment. Which is why I now have a Session 10 and an M3, he didn't pay up, so I took it back. He abused his privelages and bought a ton of other parts went of vacation and abused the bike, so it's been taken off his hands. The Session 10 frame will be up for sale, I am planning to take the parts and use them on a Foes Fly for my backup bike.

As for other Session pictures, the bike went through a few phases while I owned it, have a peak(both my Session 10, and 77 are included).

You can't dissagree that the 10 uses a big shock.

Travis Triple Ti bike stand?

In case you couldn't tell; I'm addicted to bikes. I'm also the assistant manager of my local shop(which sells mostly Trek), which makes it a bit easier to sooth the addiction. I could fill pages with all the bikes I've owned. Every 6 months I build/buy something new.

-Kevin

 

[SteezyWeezy]

kevin, what bike shop you work at?

 

[BmxConvert]

I work at Byman's Bikes in Longview, Wa. We're a smaller shop, though its been around for about 15-20 years. We sell mostly Trek brands (Trek, Fisher, Lemond, MirraCo, Bontrager, Wrenchforce), as well as Cannondale, GT, Mongoose, Schwinn, Haro, Eastern, Burley. I've gotten the shop setup with Intense now. I also own a Cove hardtail, which are available through us, well actually the entire Cove line up, as well as Ventena, DMR, VooDoo, Surley, Astrix, Azonic and Transition. We really don't stock any of those bikes, but we'll get one for you if you need it. Same situation with components, we can get most anything. We don't stock it because our town is small and theres not a huge market like Portland, but we will get it for you, either next day or within a week.
Repair wise, our rates are lower than Portland shops, we keep a 2 day turn around regardless of the season. Plus we're quite capabable with myself and the manager being UBI certified shop operators, bike mechanics, wheel builders and suspension techs.

If you have any more questions, either PM me or I'll be up at Hood for practice on Saturday and the race on Sunday.

-Kevin

 

[davep]

Nice collection....I was going to ask what your connection to the bike industry was....



now it all makes sense.

 

[SteezyWeezy]

ya man, ill see you on saturday. what class are you in?

 

[BmxConvert]

Nice collection....I was going to ask what your connection to the bike industry was....
now it all makes sense.

The collection is MUCH larger than that. As far as the biking industry goes, I've been riding bmx since I was in 7th grade(8 years now) and I rode everyday rain, snow, sleet, hail, scorching sun. It only made sense for me to want to work in a shop. I got hired on at Byman's as their bmx expert when I was 17. Over the last 3.5 years its evolved more and I've become assistant manager and more into mountain biking. I started riding downhill last year, although I didnt race. Now I'm the resident DH/FR/BMX expert in the shop.

ya man, ill see you on saturday. what class are you in?

Being as this is my first year racing and the course at hood is far different than my local shuttle trails, I started in the Sport 19-29 class. I missed the Bridal Creek race and started with the #2 race. I picked up 3rd in that on my Session 77(with the 66 on front) even though I crashed. The day after that race I sold the 77. I used the Session10 which my co-worker had previously been using, and crashed and wound up in 7th for the day. My co-worker took the Session10 to whistler with him and raced the 4th hood race on it, so I was left bikeless, until a friend let me borrow their Kona Stinky. It was a small and I'm 6'. Not a good fit. I didn't crash but my chain came off entering cannonball. I pumped the whole way down and wound up 8th. For Hood #5 I'll be on my M3, 4th race on a 4th different bike. I will finally get to run practice on saturday though. Previously I've only gotten one run on Sunday beforehand.

-Kevin

 

[SteezyWeezy]

ya im lookin forward to next season also

 

[beaverbiker]

you've been riding downhill for a year and you're their resident expert?

 

[BmxConvert]

you've been riding downhill for a year and you're their resident expert?

It's easy to gain alot of knowledge and know how with prior experience. That and all the guys I ride with either race Semi-pro or Expert and got me up to speed quick. Riding DH every weekend for a year plus lots during the week afterschool is not tough to get well aquainted. In addition I know alot about DH before I started ridig it, I just never ould afford to get into it. Theres only 3 of us who are full time and 3 part time. 1 full time rides only xc, the other only commutes. The part timers are getting into DH but really have little knowledge.

-Kevin

 

[desertwhomper]

That one pic with the trek in it and the other bike to the left is red, what bike is that?

 

[BmxConvert]

That one pic with the trek in it and the other bike to the left is red, what bike is that?

The silver bike is a Trek Liquid 55, the red is a custom painted Trek Session77.

 

[dirttastesgood]

what bank did you rob?

 

[Trekrules]

awesome collection,the session 10 and the M3 are such sick bikes.How's the swinger X6 on the M3.Are there any difirences between the Swinger X6 and the Revox in preformence etc,I mostly like the revox so much more than the swingers,the swingers where horrible shocks before the revox came.I like to now if manitou has inproved the swingers especialy the top off the line swinger.

 

[slothy]

wow, nice bikes... I like the trek session 10, nice lines.

 

[BmxConvert]

awesome collection,the session 10 and the M3 are such sick bikes.How's the swinger X6 on the M3.Are there any difirences between the Swinger X6 and the Revox in preformence etc,I mostly like the revox so much more than the swingers,the swingers where horrible shocks before the revox came.I like to now if manitou has inproved the swingers especialy the top off the line swinger.

Honestly, I like the Swingers better than the Revox. The revox is very nice, but it doesn't feel as lively as my old 4way or new Swinger x6. It could just be that the Revox shaft is bent though. I'm tempted to see how the Evolver does on this.

-Kevin

 

[TommyT]

haha thats awesome man those bikes are really nice......i wish my session 10 was still that white!