[CHepler]

Didn't go up, but to the shack at the bottom and the new campground/event area. For those who have heard but not seen the ATV spring or fall event these pictures don't do it justice. It's crowded to say the least.

looking at main parking before permit shack

Artic Cat promo trailer was one of several

most signs said this

Keep in mind it was raining hard, real hard most of the day and this is what it looked like as I was going up. Several heading out.

 

[ChrisKring]

I want that Artic Cat race trailer.

Thanks for posting up the picks.

 

[dhbuilder]

i just got back from spending the last three days up there.
helping out with misc. stuff for the club's event, and squeezing in a little trail work.

that place is as wet as it can possibly be right now.

chris.
you guys are definately going to have to keep a close eye on the weather from now till the end of the month.
we're finally getting our annual spring washouts.

keep a close eye on the national satellite and radars.
these low pressure systems that are coming out of the west are drawing up lots of gulf air now.
and we've been getting the "training effect", where it just stays over the region as it moves n.e.

before we could just wait till the next day and then ride.
now it's so saturated that we won't get any runs in now for quite a few days after each front passes through.

so even if it rains thursday or friday before ya'll show up, runs may not happen.
i don't want to see you guys make a trip down here like you did late last fall, and not ride.

 

[spoke80]

i just got back from spending the last three days up there.
helping out with misc. stuff for the club's event, and squeezing in a little trail work.

that place is as wet as it can possibly be right now.

chris.
you guys are definately going to have to keep a close eye on the weather from now till the end of the month.
we're finally getting our annual spring washouts.

keep a close eye on the national satellite and radars.
these low pressure systems that are coming out of the west are drawing up lots of gulf air now.
and we've been getting the "training effect", where it just stays over the region as it moves n.e.

before we could just wait till the next day and then ride.
now it's so saturated that we won't get any runs in now for quite a few days after each front passes through.

so even if it rains thursday or friday before ya'll show up, runs may not happen.
i don't want to see you guys make a trip down here like you did late last fall, and not ride.

Looks like the weekend is shaping up to be horrible with sunny skies and 70 by Saturday following a week of dry weather. So I would recommend that if you're thinking about riding next weekend take my advice and stay home.



it won't be worth it....

 

[dhbuilder]

if we get any rain wednesday, like they're forcasting.
there probably won't be any weekday sessions.
let's hope your forcast holds true.
this is the time of year when it's either perfect conditions or crap.

over 7,000 a.t.v. riders were there this weekend !!
some of those a.t.v. club members worked from 7a.m. til midnite.
and were there the next day to do it all over again.

most were soaking wet most of the time.

 

[bizutch]

That place needs to sponsored 365 days a year by Tide, Band Aid Brand and Exxon.

 

[Krosskountrykid]

What does the mountain look like after 7000 atv riders destroy the trails. Any where in Penn. or WVA that I have ridden following atv traffic is a scene of mass environmental destruction. How busy were the EMTs ?

 

[dhbuilder]

one broken collar bone early last week.

and everyone stayed off the downhill trails.

 

[Krosskountrykid]

I guess we are all entitled to a place to play. But I have seen the damage that atvs cause and locally we have problems with damage to bike trails clearly marked to exclude motorized traffic.

 

[ChrisKring]

I guess we are all entitled to a place to play. But I have seen the damage that atvs cause and locally we have problems with damage to bike trails clearly marked to exclude motorized traffic.

You need to watch out with this line of arguement. The hikers and horse people make the same arguement about bikers.

 

[BKQuill]

You need to watch out with this line of arguement. The hikers and horse people make the same arguement about bikers.

True dat!

The ATVer's pretty much keep off of "our" trails, Joey's got too much blood, sweat, tears, and time to let them get torn up by the motorized guys.

BTW, see you in about 10 days Chris!!

Cheers,
Brian

 

[dhbuilder]

we're an oasis of singletrack in the middle of total motorized mayhem.

i gladly take flack from the internet p.c. crowd for being far less than cordial online.
but it's just what it takes to stand up for what we've built up there.

but it's cool that with thousands of out of town riders just sniffing for trails to ride, the fact that all stayed clear of the goods is amazing.

 

[spoke80]

we're an oasis of singletrack in the middle of total motorized mayhem.

Quote of the day.

 

[dhbuilder]

finished up with the years re-build on the roadgap yesterday.
the jump all the way back to the rock you drop to set it up has been elevated to keep the riding line above any waterflow and re-cambered also.
used to clay/iron ore from the road/creekbed to build with.
tamped each bucket load. hardpack to say the least.
it should last the entire seaon without any water ruts.

also cleaned up dropout.
it's still in need of a good weedeating, but is good to go for the weekends activities

weedeating will also be a major activity on the new trail too.
that scrub is growing in fast.

 

[bizutch]

"Butch's juicy trail tidbit of the day"

Learned one other very neat thing about MTB's that hikers, horses and ORV's can't compete with.

MTB tires are essentially just like a massive Heavy Equipment earth compactor, you know the big machine with a metal drum that has spikes on it. MTB tires pack down a trail just like one of those.

Also, as compared to hikers and horses, we have a lower "PSI" factor. Pounds per square inch of force generated on the surface so we don't dig in as much.

Also, the generation of force from a bike tire is mostly down and forward when "climbing" whereas hikers and horses generate down and back force..meaning each tread moves dirt downhill.

Carry on....

 

[ulockjustice]

did you learn that from the textbook of physics that isnt real?

if youre generating force downwards and forwards while climbing, youre not so much climbing as going backwards down the hill. ill give you that horses are definitely more destructive to trails, but if mtn tires act like a heavy equipment compactor, wouldnt ORV tires do the same thing?

also im pretty sure that a 200lb rider plus 40ish pound bike would have more psi on the contact patch of the tires than the same 200 lb person has on their feet for hiking.

 

[dhbuilder]

very good bit of info.

that's why i constantly give grief to exessive brakesliders up here.
when these trails are "rolled" it makes them better and faster.

but we're preaching to the choir here.
most experienced riders have seen what other usergroups leave in their wake.

what's funny is.
properly ridden, an a.t.v. can be a really good trailpath groomer.
there's a ridgecrest trail close to my house that has a quad trail running it's entire length.
it's only ridden by the people who live in that area.

a nicer trail would be hard to find.
rolling and swoopy doubletrack without any roosting.
nice banked turns that were ridden in well.
it's mostly young kids who ride em up there.
a lot of windrock trails that terry and i used to ride were that way too.

 

[bizutch]

did you learn that from the textbook of physics that isnt real?

if youre generating force downwards and forwards while climbing, youre not so much climbing as going backwards down the hill. ill give you that horses are definitely more destructive to trails, but if mtn tires act like a heavy equipment compactor, wouldnt ORV tires do the same thing?

also im pretty sure that a 200lb rider plus 40ish pound bike would have more psi on the contact patch ofthe tires, than the same 200 lb person has on their feet for hiking.[/QUOTE]

Well first, you have to take into consideration the angle of impact and the generation of forward force generated by the front rolling edge of both the front wheel...which generates no rearward movement of soil since there is no power transfer rearward from that wheel (unless you're a goob who bought a 2 wheel drive bicycle).

When a bicycle tire strikes the ground, the force is from the leading edge of the tire and the knobs initially push soil uphill and into the ground. Granted, the rear wheel does generate rearward force to "push" soil downhill, but as compared to the total amount of soil displaced by both wheels simultaneously rolling, it is far less than a horse or foot.

Keep in mind, on a bike your weight is distributed across BOTH wheels at all times, unless you are manually up or nose wheelieing down the hill, thus low PSI. Hikers generate the full force of their body weight through a single foot strike...unless they bunny hop. :d
Horses have the greatest PSI...two out of 4 feet are pushing down and back at any given time and the mass transfered through their small contact patch is several times that of a bulldozer.

Read an owners manual on Bobcat's newest equipment? They generate less than 2.5 PSI..less than a 200lb man. They are designing their trax to disperse the weight of the vehicles across a really broad area...so you can drive them across a mansion's lawn and not damage it.


As for ORV's, they have low PSI too..where they do damage is that going uphill, they rip up a lot of loose soil unless you are in low, 4WD. If you can find 10 guys at Windrock that know their ATV's have a low gear???

 

[ChrisKring]

"Butch's juicy trail tidbit of the day"

Learned one other very neat thing about MTB's that hikers, horses and ORV's can't compete with.

MTB tires are essentially just like a massive Heavy Equipment earth compactor, you know the big machine with a metal drum that has spikes on it. MTB tires pack down a trail just like one of those.

Also, as compared to hikers and horses, we have a lower "PSI" factor. Pounds per square inch of force generated on the surface so we don't dig in as much.

Also, the generation of force from a bike tire is mostly down and forward when "climbing" whereas hikers and horses generate down and back force..meaning each tread moves dirt downhill.

Carry on....

True, hikers and horse do more damage than a biker since they dig in on each step on steep terrain. IMBA has a univeristy study on it.

However, I would equate a bicycle and a ATV if they are ridden similarly. Either will do damage if skidded or spinning the tires. Spinning the tires isn't a problem for most on a bicycle. However, for me it's a real problem since I put down more power than most quads and any of you loosers. ) see you in a week. Let's ride. I'm tired of this message board nonsense.

 

[ulockjustice]

Keep in mind, on a bike your weight is distributed across BOTH wheels at all times, unless you are manually up or nose wheelieing down the hill, thus low PSI. Hikers generate the full force of their body weight through a single foot strike...unless they bunny hop. :d

math time. so a size 11 shoe can be approximated by a rectangle 11.5' long and 3.5' wide. if i weigh 160 lbs, then me standing on one foot = approximately 4 lb per square inch.

now if im on my 45 lbs DH bike, im not sitting at 205 lbs total. the contact patch for the tire is maybe a 3" by 4" rectangle? times two tires equals 24 square inches on the ground. 205/24 = 8.5 psi on the bike.

im assuming the higher psi for a hiker argument is based on the impulse of the heel striking the ground first when walking? i understand the whole pushing dirt backwards while climbing deal,. but it seems that bikes would have higher psi on a flatter trail.

i still dont buy the forward force from the tires when climbing deal. even if there was a small amount of forward force from the front tire there is a much larger rearward force from the rear that would dominate the overall force.

 

[bizutch]

math time. so a size 11 shoe can be approximated by a rectangle 11.5' long and 3.5' wide. if i weigh 160 lbs, then me standing on one foot = approximately 4 lb per square inch.

now if im on my 45 lbs DH bike, im not sitting at 205 lbs total. the contact patch for the tire is maybe a 3" by 4" rectangle? times two tires equals 24 square inches on the ground. 205/24 = 8.5 psi on the bike.

im assuming the higher psi for a hiker argument is based on the impulse of the heel striking the ground first when walking? i understand the whole pushing dirt backwards while climbing deal,. but it seems that bikes would have higher psi on a flatter trail.

i still dont buy the forward force from the tires when climbing deal. even if there was a small amount of forward force from the front tire there is a much larger rearward force from the rear that would dominate the overall force.

My understanding was that the angle of contact is where the difference in PSI comes from. 2 rolling objects in perpetual motion distributing force along a long, continual plane as opposed to a single striking object exerting itself once every so many inches?

I don't pretend to be the math wiz. Just trying to illustrate what was given in the IMBA class. Me good at theory...

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

True, hikers and horse do more damage than a biker since they dig in on each step on steep terrain. IMBA has a univeristy study on it.

And I bet Horse and Hiking groups have studies that say the opposite.


More thread derailment!

 

[Krosskountrykid]

Mountain bike tread creates a trail the approximate width of 1 atv tire. An atv is tread creates a trail approx. 4 ft wide. The atv folks need to stay on fire roads only, same with horses. Let them destroy the vegetation that tends to obscure the fire roads during the Summer season. Leave the single track at 8 to 10 inches.