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What is your opinion of the future of this sport?

Jettj45

Monkey
Oct 20, 2005
670
3
Butthole of NC
I wasn't looking at the sport getting larger, BUT, I was looking at the whole, "I sure I have a place to ride next year" aspect of it. The pro's that I have met, and have gotten to know, seemed really cool. On that list, sadly the Monster park/NWD riders were not quit so cool. Like I said, not all of em, but a bunch.

I'll give ya an example...Adam R. and Chris H., both of whom I can vouch for do the sport WONDERS!

On the more well known riders, like Missy and Shaums....Both AWESOME! Its not made up either...I saw 6 - 7 kids, at a Monster Park event, walk up to the "pros" to get an autograph, and were treated like, "oh like, yeah". These same kids walked up to Missy, and she spent the better part of 20 minutes interacting with em, cutting up, having fun.

Shaums is the same way. Certainly grass roots, but, when one pro is a dick, it kills it for the rest who are actually quite cool.

I'm still not seeing the reason why the US has NO world Cup promoters....Any promoters want to fill us ignorant AARP folks in on this? Again, just a topic to help put it into perspective....for many of us...
Yeah, I talked to Missy for a good 20 minutes at a snowshoe race because I sheered my front rotor completely off haha. She had the same thing happen to her at a Mont St anne race. Definitely an awesome person to talk to. I have heard guys like Strait are the biggest douche bags...
 

stinkyboy

Plastic Santa
Jan 6, 2005
15,187
1
¡Phoenix!
Snob factor? Is this just in the west coast? I have never encountered it here everyone seems nice.
Even walking into the only serious downhill shop in Phoenix where everyone is very, very cool, he's just intimidated by all the 5K+ bike owners.

I've offered him entry/travel bucks to go race and beat the serious riders here, but he sees it as "food stamps" and wants no part of it.

No offense to the downhillers here, but he doesn't speak the language, knows nothing of suspension setup, etc. and just fukkin bombs.
 

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,785
1
Claremont, CA
Snob factor? Is this just in the west coast? I have never encountered it here everyone seems nice.
No, I see it out here too. Mostly, though, it's with younger kids. I rode a lot last summer with high school kids (I'm in grad school) and they seemed more hung up on what people were riding, etc, than almost any other group of riders.
 

Jettj45

Monkey
Oct 20, 2005
670
3
Butthole of NC
Thats stupid....you ride what you have... And actually now that I think of it lol when i started racing I didnt race with any armor just a helmet and ppl were like dude wtf are you doing. Naturally I won by 30 seconds, it was only the beg class but hey. Gear and Bike mean **** w/o a skilled rider period.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,196
4
I have a friend that is a pro XC racer and former Exp DH racer and he said something interesting the other day.....He thinks Super-D will become what DH used to be (becuase you can use such a wide range of bikes...from cheap to expensive) and the DH races won't grow much and it will stay a specialized segment of the sport. I agree....IMO the sport hasn't grown that much, if at all (from a racing standpoint).
 

muddy beast

Turbo Monkey
Nov 26, 2005
1,815
0
I think it will end up like snowboarding is right now.

Heres my list of what happens...
1. All of the "OTHERS" rag on you and your sport. (Check)
2. Cooler and bigger tricks/stunts occur, and the public notices. (Check)
3. More and more kids and teens start to buy bikes and test out the sport. (Check)
4. About 40% of the kids who tried it, within a year, get hooked and keep progressing the sport. (Check)
5. Eventually it seems like everyone does it.
6. Pros start making more money, bikes start costing less, and sick movies start getting released into the public.

Now we just have 2 more things to go till Mountain biking dominates during the summer.
 

stinkyboy

Plastic Santa
Jan 6, 2005
15,187
1
¡Phoenix!
Thats stupid....you ride what you have... And actually now that I think of it lol when i started racing I didnt race with any armor just a helmet and ppl were like dude wtf are you doing. Naturally I won by 30 seconds, it was only the beg class but hey. Gear and Bike mean **** w/o a skilled rider period.


Let me know when you're in Phoenix.
 

5150dhbiker

Turbo Monkey
Nov 5, 2007
1,200
0
Santa Barbara, CA
Once Team Big Bear is no longer part of the sport things will improve.
HAHAHAHA, very true...although they put on a COUPLE good events.

I don't know where it's going to go. As far as sports go, downhill is still in it's early stages compared to many of the other sports out there. I do think it's sad however that it's not reccognized by more people.

Many times when i tell people what my life is about and what it is that I do they don't even know what I'm talking about! They think "oooo, big deal, he goes down a hill on a bike, that dosen't take any effort at all...anybody could do that." I think that our sport needs to get more reccognition for the physical and mental strength required to compete.

The major problem is that the average person has a hard time viewing the races. Face it, races are typically held away from major cities (except for races like Fontana and Sea Otter) and Americans do not like to go out of the way to view a sport where they can only see a fraction of the action (kinda rhymed, lol).

I think that DH won't get as popular out here as it is in the UK for quite a while (much like with WRC, extremely popular overseas but blah out here).

Don't get me wrong, I'm really hoping that it becomes a bit more popular and reccognized as a tough sport but I just don't want it to become a fad so that kids just do it because "it's cool."
 

Jettj45

Monkey
Oct 20, 2005
670
3
Butthole of NC
You are exactly right most people are completely clueless to what a race actually it. I've shown a bunch of my non biker friends videos and after that they are like "holy crap that is awesome".
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,196
4
You are exactly right most people are completely clueless to what a race actually it. I've shown a bunch of my non biker friends videos and after that they are like "holy crap that is awesome".
Part of the problem is the lack of TV coverage and that stems from how hard it is to make a race look exciting on TV. I remember in 98/99 when they had a bunch of the world cups on TV it was cool, but the videos being put out were better. When we catch air its not as exciting as a freestyle mx guy gapping 100ft
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,358
0
Malaysia
it doesn't even need to be a resort, you can check the rules out on the uci web site. one of the rules is that you need uplift, and be able to take riders to the top at a certain rate per hr. doesn't need to be a chair lift.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,196
4
Whatever happened to Tahoe? There used to be national and world cup races there every year
 

sayndesyn

Turbo Monkey
I would think that he should be motivated to show up at one race on a clapped out gemini in jeans and a t-shirt anw whoop the ass of all these brats in Carbon D2's and new Sunday's that daddy bought for them before they paid there dues on crap bikes learning to ride in the first place. He would make them look like idiots, not the other way around.

Even walking into the only serious downhill shop in Phoenix where everyone is very, very cool, he's just intimidated by all the 5K+ bike owners.

I've offered him entry/travel bucks to go race and beat the serious riders here, but he sees it as "food stamps" and wants no part of it.

No offense to the downhillers here, but he doesn't speak the language, knows nothing of suspension setup, etc. and just fukkin bombs.
 

c2001

Paparazzi
Aug 10, 2001
1,093
0
where everyone is
i haven't read everything, so if i'm redundant, sorry.

1. Be the solution: Everyone is saying "you know what 'someone else' should do to make DH better?" - WHY DON'T YOU MAKE IT BETTER? don't wait on others.

2. Put your money into your sport. It "seems" like majority of DHers want bro/pro-deals and are not willing to pay for equipment they ride on. DHers feel entitled to a bargain for some reason. XCers and roadies will pay retail and their end of the sport thrives. DHers won't. The poor economy of DHing is our fault.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Shuttle runs are dissapearing by the day, mountains are loosing intrest (and money) in bike trails,
What? No. Whistler saw more income from bikes last season than they did from skiing. First time this has ever happened at whistler, or anywhere else.

More lift served stuff is opening up every month out east. Racing may be scraping bottom, but lift served riding is more popular than ever.
 

c2001

Paparazzi
Aug 10, 2001
1,093
0
where everyone is
Why don't you enlighten us how best to do this?
are you really that helpless? here are 10 random ideas to help you out...if you're worried about your way being "best" then you're worrying about the wrong thing.

1. dig a berm
2. give a struggling and promising racer money for entry fee
3. buy a magazine (dirt or decline would suffice)
4. volunteer for trail work
5. attend an mtb event and spectate
6. start an mtb website to help make mtb more fun and/or seen
7. write your favorite company a letter expressing how much you love their stuff and that you glad you can purchase it.
8. tell someone else you're stoked on their riding instead of telling someone how rad you are.
9. call your local race promoter and ask how you can help them.
10. always wear a visor on your fullface and make sure it'spushed all the way up. that way TV might actually want to cover mtb.
 

ekozy39

Monkey
Apr 27, 2005
312
0
What? No. Whistler saw more income from bikes last season than they did from skiing. First time this has ever happened at whistler, or anywhere else.
Really, is this in print anywhere? That would be amazing.
A few years back, i heard that one reason Snow Summit didn't bother with the hassle of getting racing back was that they would make as much $$ on one busy weekend of skiing as a whole season of MTBing.
 

wiscodh

Monkey
Jun 21, 2007
833
121
303
i heard when i was in whistler this year, that they made more on biking than golf this year. Golf was there major summer money maker untill now. Im sure they make WAY more $$$ on snowsports then mtb.
 

h22ekhatch

Monkey
Jun 13, 2005
269
0
Portland
This is a great topic, too bad I am at work and don't have time to write as much as I would like to

1. I think the cost is a major barrier for a lot of people. I take people to the movie openings and let them borrow spare bikes and whatnot as much as possible. I have got 4-5 people to the point of not having mtb's on their mind at all to being full fledged DH freaks (one even races). On the other hand, I have had people (especially after watching a nwd type movie) be totally psyched up to try this out but walk away quickly after going to a bike shop and being blown away by the prices. I am not saying there is anything that can be done about this, but the bottom line is that if you want to get into skateboarding its a minimal cost. Snowboarding and surfing aren't too terrible either really (snowboarding gets spendy with the lift tickets/travel, but DH riding is the same thing).

Just about every bike I have ever had was put together with used parts, bargain hunting, and DIY mechanic work. I realize there are cheaper entries into the sport than going and buying a brand new V10 for $6k, but that can be hard to convey to someone with that kind of sticker shock (because really even the DIY route is expensive).

2. Most people don't have any idea what 'we' do. You try to explain what you did last weekend and they go "oh mountain biking, yea my dad likes to ride...he has a nice bike, a cannondale or something, its super light." You end up trying to explain that the kind of riding they are talking about is not really the same thing (which is usually when the videos come into play). I don't know how you could get the sport more in the publics view (or if you would even want to) but it can be hard to get people to even understand what you are talking about half the time.

3. Racing is iffy. As a spectator it isn't really all that fun to climb halfway up a mountain to watch a single guy bomb down a trail for 100 feet until he hits a corner and is out of your view again (then wait 60 seconds for the next rider). As a racer it is frusturating as well...those are LONG days with not that much riding involved. I gave up racing myself, I tried it but I just have a lot more fun doing what I want and not worrying about it. I think some of the other sections of the sport may grow, but I have to wonder if DH is destined to be a niche activity forever.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Really, is this in print anywhere? That would be amazing.
A few years back, i heard that one reason Snow Summit didn't bother with the hassle of getting racing back was that they would make as much $$ on one busy weekend of skiing as a whole season of MTBing.
It was in a whistler press release somewhere. I will see if i can dig it up and email it to you. Just to be clear, this is resort wide tourism income (hotels, restaurants, bike park etc etc), not just the bike park (obviously).

Here is a different media release, but talking about how 2007 will once again be a record year.

2007 Summer Business Projected to be Up Over Previous Year

Whistler, B.C. – Following recent trends, Whistler is poised to record its best summer ever with forecasts projecting the resort’s summer room bookings up by four per cent over last year.

The forecast means that summer 2007 will go on record as the busiest summer ever, surpassing even last year’s record-breaking season.

Initially, July 2007 was expected to be a challenging month for Whistler given that July 2006 was the resort’s best summer season on record, with 2006 results bolstered by large group/incentive business. But July 2007 closed with positive results as room nights were just one per cent shy of the 2006 record and the average daily rate (ADR) growing by two per cent.

The summer 2006 season (May through October) saw a 14 per cent increase in room bookings compared to the 2005 season. This year, research indicates that room bookings, which saw an increase in June, a slight decrease (one per cent) in July and projected increases for August, September and October, will be up over last year.

“Whistler is experiencing record visitor numbers,” said Ian Dunn, Director of Marketing at Tourism Whistler. “Of course there are a number of factors at play here. We have enjoyed excellent response to our increased marketing and sales efforts and we are definitely seeing a renewed interest in Whistler.”

Independent travelers (IT) and bookings from the tour and travel sector contributed to July’s impressive results. IT bookings grew by 15 per cent compared to 2006 and tour and travel bookings climbed by 11 per cent. IT bookings were bolstered through events such as the Kokanee Crankworx Festival held July 21-29 with all but three nights of the festival registering room night increases over last year. Summer 2007 season-to-date bookings as of the end of July indicate that Whistler is performing slightly better than summer 2006. Bookings for the remainder of August and into September are strong and Tourism Whistler is now forecasting summer 2007 room nights to increase by four per cent over the 2006 summer season.
 

ska todd

Turbo Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
1,776
0
P.S. Seplavy - if there's anyway USAC can re-up their deal with United to get the free bike vouchers back, I'd guess the membership would increase even further.
I will inquire but I do believe that deal has been dead for a couple years now. I remember trying to take advantage of the coupons a couple times for team riders and it was a sorta bum deal. You had to buy the tix thru United directly, which was a higher price than you'd get from shopping online. So, it basically canceled out any benefit. There is currently a deal w/ United for members to receive up to 15% off w/ a promo code.

A list of member benefits and partners can be found here http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=2589

...USA Cycling and NORBA will remain continue to remain irrelevant and unresponsive as smaller grassroots series like Gravity East will pick up the slack, albeit with less prize money, sponsors, and publicity...
And who exactly do you think was the leading force in getting the Gravity East Series going? Yep, it was Kelli Lusk from USA Cycling/Norba along with the efforts of a dozen or so USAC/Norba affilated promoters and event organizers!

I'm still not seeing the reason why the US has NO world Cup promoters....Any promoters want to fill us ignorant AARP folks in on this? Again, just a topic to help put it into perspective....for many of us...
A lot of it ends up being dates, logistics, and conflicts vs money. More on this below.

Part of the problem is the lack of TV coverage and that stems from how hard it is to make a race look exciting on TV. I remember in 98/99 when they had a bunch of the world cups on TV it was cool, but the videos being put out were better. When we catch air its not as exciting as a freestyle mx guy gapping 100ft
Almost all of it is in production and staging. What they did on the live feed coverage at Ft Bill was awesome! A bunch of cams, helicopters, etc. A well executed product will have the action and the drama. It certainly can be done.

But, also ask yourself...do we want or really need TV? It might be more of a curse than we expect...

What exactly does a resort need to be at that caliber to host a World Cup event?
It's not as much of what they need...they need to basically be within 2 hours of an international airport, have sufficient lodging on-site or with-in close proximity, have a promoter with experience at the venue and in promoting larger scale events. They also need to bond some cash (for guaranteeing prize payouts and paying officials and such), have well written plans for things like marshalls & EMTs, and put up some beds for officials and VIPs. Now, the major sticky issues in the US have tended to be 1. dates - Needs to flow into the schedule and resorts often end up having another event pre-booked on the available dates from the UCI 2. Sponsor conflicts - Many US venues are Ford or Chevy; UCI is Nissan 3. Beds - In the US the accomodations often are leased out to a vendor or controlled by an owner group so the mountain can't as easily have access to the comp rooms as we'd all think.

©2001;2723706 said:
1. Be the solution: Everyone is saying "you know what 'someone else' should do to make DH better?" - WHY DON'T YOU MAKE IT BETTER? don't wait on others.

2. Put your money into your sport. It "seems" like majority of DHers want bro/pro-deals and are not willing to pay for equipment they ride on. DHers feel entitled to a bargain for some reason. XCers and roadies will pay retail and their end of the sport thrives. DHers won't. The poor economy of DHing is our fault.
dead on Spoons! Kudos!

-ska todd
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,196
4
But, also ask yourself...do we want or really need TV? It might be more of a curse than we expect...
Depends on what you want the sport to do....if you want money to be injected into the sport and give the pros the ability to make a descent living, then yes we do need TV. Personally? I like that the sport is a niche and the racing scene around here is getting larger....more back to the numbers we saw in the late 90s and we have two nice freeride parks near by.
 

John P.

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,170
0
Golden, CO
I will inquire but I do believe that deal has been dead for a couple years now. I remember trying to take advantage of the coupons a couple times for team riders and it was a sorta bum deal. You had to buy the tix thru United directly, which was a higher price than you'd get from shopping online. So, it basically canceled out any benefit. There is currently a deal w/ United for members to receive up to 15% off w/ a promo code.

A list of member benefits and partners can be found here http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=2589

-ska todd

Todd-

Thanks a ton for taking the time to respond thoughtfully to so many issues. Must have taken an hour or two just to do all the HTML code alone. :)

Anyway, to clarify on those vouchers, I used them many times and they were great. I don't recall a requirement that you had to book through united.com, but even if you did, they've guaranteed the lowest United fares on their website for 5 or 6 years, so you're always better off doing it that way anyway.

I haven't looked into the discount very thoroughly, but I definitely will based on your recommendation.

The vouchers, though, were what kept me renewing my USCA membership, even if I didn't plan to do any races. For better or worse, I'm a loyal United customer (do to the zillion or so miles I have with them and the fact that they're a Star Alliance airline), and taking a bike on there is at least $85 each way without a voucher. A lot of times they get you for a weight penalty because it's over 50 lbs, and so you're looking at $135 each way, which is frankly insane.

Please do follow up on the voucher inquiry if you have the time. I've got to imagine I wasn't the only one bummed to lose that awesome USCA/NORBA membership perk.

Keep up the good work,

--JP
 

koffee

Chimp
Nov 30, 2004
69
0
Why do bike company's not give loans? You can take out a 5k car loan. If they gave a loan with good interest rate, say less than 5% I bet they would sell more bikes. I bought a Slayer last winter for 1800. At the time it was a great deal. Almost 1k off the pricetag. But I ended up knickel and diming the bike I really wanted. I swappwd out the fork, bars,ETC. Now I love my bike. But at the time I did not have all the cash to buy my "Dream" bike. In the long run it would have cost the same and would have been easier to just get a loan. Plus I could afford to buy exactly what I wanted. Yes I could have gotton a personel loan, but the interest was to high. If say Santa Cruz had a great loan plan I would be riding a nomad right now. Or maybe a higher end Rocky.
 

ekozy39

Monkey
Apr 27, 2005
312
0
Why do bike company's not give loans? You can take out a 5k car loan. If they gave a loan with good interest rate, say less than 5% I bet they would sell more bikes. I bought a Slayer last winter for 1800. At the time it was a great deal. Almost 1k off the pricetag. But I ended up knickel and diming the bike I really wanted. I swappwd out the fork, bars,ETC. Now I love my bike. But at the time I did not have all the cash to buy my "Dream" bike. In the long run it would have cost the same and would have been easier to just get a loan. Plus I could afford to buy exactly what I wanted. Yes I could have gotton a personel loan, but the interest was to high. If say Santa Cruz had a great loan plan I would be riding a nomad right now. Or maybe a higher end Rocky.
The car co.'s that offer 0%, 1.9%, etc are their own finance co. It's unlikely many, if any, bike mfg. could afford to run that kind of business. Especially considering that they could earn more $ by leaving it in the bank. Also you will never find that kind of financing on a personal, uninsured item such as a bicycle, computer, etc..
maybe a 60 day same as cash, but should you be late on a payment or after those 60 days your interest rate will default back to 25% or more.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,196
4
It might be possible if they partnered with a bank, but I bet they would have trouble finding a partner.....high end bikes sell at relatively low numbers and the credit market is getting tight.
 

ekozy39

Monkey
Apr 27, 2005
312
0
It might be possible if they partnered with a bank, but I bet they would have trouble finding a partner.....high end bikes sell at relatively low numbers and the credit market is getting tight.
Yeah, but they would do it at a high rate, and that type of financing is already available. Getting an auto type loan on bikes won't happen. Which is unfortunate.
 

pelo

Monkey
Jun 11, 2007
708
0
I apologize. Haven´t read the hole thread and don´t know if this has been said...

The future of DH, in my opinion, is probebly about media, to not just report about traditional and mainstream sports like soccer, football, hockey and so on. However it seems almost impossible, because people want to follow sports they know about. And why do they care about those sports? Well, it´s what´s on TV:greedy:, in the paper and so on...
Moment 23. :disgust:

How to get around this dilemma? Bribe them, threat them?:pirate2:

I think it´s important to show people that DH is not just about racing big bikes on big mountains/hills (ouch, money!). Or, is it?
It´s equal fun :-)imstupid:) to have a race on a short slope with some friends on hardtails on a less gnarly track. Just some turns and jumps and show the beauty of riding in mud should be fun for a boy/girl who´s been doing a boring sport/hobby like f.i. soccer, ponyriding or whatever similar. If we could do smaller races to get younger people and more people racing with whatever bike, it might be easier for the sport to expand? A broader DH-community?
 

[Tha]Shovla

Monkey
Aug 28, 2007
119
0
Somewhere over the rainbow
YAY STORY TIME ! ! !

I will relate to this through the long lost art of story telling..

About 15 years ago i was involved in a little known sport called Fly fishing. Now for those of you posers who watched brad pitt on the movies land monster trout in Montana ... SCREW YOU ! you ruined my sport.

Anyway. I had been fishing small local trout streams for about 7 years and by 13 i was pretty freakin good. A regular Grom if you will. Then ... someone made a movie. In about 4 years i watched small conventions full of the same old people ( i mean like 65+ years old) turn 5 and 6 times larger. technology Skyrocketted, Prices Jumped, Trends happened, people lost perspective and My dad and I got away from the sport. The best example is when i saw the state install 2 paved roads with paved parking lots and handicapped accessable fishing platforms onto a local trout stream because of local pressure.

Well guess what. 5 years after that all went down and people relized that all the money in their pockets, cool technology in their gear, trendy sh!t on their person and Club membership cards in their wallets STILL couldnt make them a better fisherman than i was @ age 15!. thats right hard work and dedication still pays off. So now the sport has come back down... there are still the old retired people who do it cause they love it and have nothing else to do with their time and there are still the people who do it because its not the bass master classics.

The point im trying to make is If you all wish for commercialization you will find a HUGE increase in price, popularity and... personalization. This sport is still small enough that MOST of us do it because we love it NOT because its cool or trendy. And if it ever becomes cool and trendy you will find a whole host of problems from poaching local spots, to lift line 3 times longer than your use to, to bikes that easily come out to 10K and trends in the bike world that 5 years later you will look at and say WTF was i thinking. And im sure a lot of us will quit it if it comes to that .... And start riding BMX street :)

Rant over.