trail builders for hire?
- Thread starter meattray
- Start date
where?
New Mexico
Skid loader provided? Hell, if someone kept some cold (micro brew) beer and food on hand, I'd do it for FREE...if I lived in NM.
. . . i assume by "trails" you mean dirt jumps (aka mtbmx "trails") or do you mean xc trails?
i've thought a lot about this because i've worked on quite a few spots (including a couple of municipalities). it's one thing to say that various riders will 'volunteer' etc. etc. but to truly get it done fast (like one or two weekends) and get it done right you have to a core of at least 3-5 guys who are skilled shapers, then additional hands who can be shown what to do. anyone who underestimates the amount of work involved to build a complete spot of dialed trails (e.g. two complete 'loops' with rollers berms and jumps) and says it's easy (e.g "with a bobcat we could get it done in a few hours!") is full of sht.
it's almost as much work as building a concrete skatepark, minus the concrete pouring. therefore i would say at a design/planning fee of $300 and labor of a bare minimum 10 guys X $18/hr X 16 hrs = $2880 for a small spot. for a bigger more legit spot, if i was a construction contractor, i would give ourselves a full week to get it done, for a total of $7500. if yall think $18/hr is a lot, keep in mind most guys already worked 40 hrs that week and it's damn hard to get any crew of guys to work all day saturday and sunday without paying an overtime rate. also if i was doing it right, i would be running two bobcats at the same time and possibly two tamping machines.
compare with concrete skateparks at a bare minimum are $30K - $50K and many are more like $250K - $750K. true, a lot of the cost is the concrete itself . . . but a lot more is just the cost to get something professionally done. you know what, now that i think about it some more, if you were paying an actual trail building company, they have regular business overhead (insurance, equipment etc etc etc) so i would say that $7500 would be more like $10-$15K.
here's an example of a project our crew worked on (in a full weekend WITH a bobcat). we got a lot done, but it's still not even close to where it needs to be in order to be considered a complete legit spot.
Saturday and Sunday. 16 hours labor. 10.5 hours Bobcat run time. $40 in diesel. Shown in video: Line of roller and 4 big tabletops completed.
Not shown in video: Another line of 2 berms, table and roller, dirt moved into place but not shaped and packed. A third line of 1 table, 135 degree berm and 4 rollers moved into place and only partly shaped/packed. (Not shown in video).
From experience, my advice is even with a Bobcat, do not underestimate the amount of time and skilled labor required for shaping and packing !!
Thanks to Austin Ridgeriders Mountain Bike Club/ for contributing the cost of the Bobcat rental.
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with all respect, (seriously), this is the type of response i hope this guy doesn't get. i have worked on too many projects "for beer" to where i now have a better dose of reality.
guys will build trails for the love, by hand, when it's their home spot. when you want guys to build a spot they're never gonna personally ride . . . it's a whole different story. just my 2 cents.
You're no fun at all.
Of the 5 times I've had equipment, I never paid for anything other than the rental. And yes, two of the drivers worked for beer and one of them doesn't even ride.
You are right about the handwork/shaping though. That has to be the finishing touch and that still takes **** tons of work.
It's all in who you know mang.
dude don't get me wrong. i wasn't talking about helping bros at their spots. i always do that for free, for the love, for the beer.You're no fun at all.
Of the 5 times I've had equipment, I never paid for anything other than the rental. And yes, two of the drivers worked for beer and one of them doesn't even ride.
You are right about the handwork/shaping though. That has to be the finishing touch and that still takes **** tons of work.
It's all in who you know mang.
the original question was if a person was hiring someone (a crew/contractor) to build trails. that was my estimate on a reasonable cost.
. . . i don't know these guys (they're in England) but i'm impressed with the website and the pics: http://www.clarkkentcontractors.com/crewe
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I kinda like my yard now but if I was to rebuild I would want a better plan. To utilize my limited space the best way possible. And sometime 8 stoned guys standing around going " I don't know may that'd be cool I guess....... Burn one dude"
here it is as it stands now would like more jump pump style very pump now would like a flowing jump pump line
here it is as it stands now would like more jump pump style very pump now would like a flowing jump pump line
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for a normal backyard size, i suggest ramps. maaaaaybe dirt in the middle area, but probably not. the only way you can get the appropriate speed to go big in a short amount of space is to have tall steep structures (roll-ins / vert walls / half pipes). something like the TerribleOne "backyard" would be my ideal use of limited space:
http://vimeo.com/858949
^That kind of depends on your location's elevation profile too though.
Hey meat: The best thing to do at this point would be to get someone who knows what the hell they're doing walk your property with you. I don't know the trail scene in NM but someone who's done some trenching can see what's possible fairly quickly. Then you can form a plan about what's the best use of a machine, your space in particular and what can pass with some hours by hand. Then your equipment rental can be efficient because you know exactly what to do before the expensive machines get there.
I mean there ARE guys who do this for a living........Spangler, Hoots Jay, and there's a crew in the northwest who actually looks like who I would consider seriously......sorry I don't remember what they're called. If you really want to go that route.
But if it were me personally, I'd get a good solid layout in your head, either with help or otherwise, then find someone to run equipment. Either way you're still going to have a shlt ton of hand work before you have anything worthwhile.
Hey meat: The best thing to do at this point would be to get someone who knows what the hell they're doing walk your property with you. I don't know the trail scene in NM but someone who's done some trenching can see what's possible fairly quickly. Then you can form a plan about what's the best use of a machine, your space in particular and what can pass with some hours by hand. Then your equipment rental can be efficient because you know exactly what to do before the expensive machines get there.
I mean there ARE guys who do this for a living........Spangler, Hoots Jay, and there's a crew in the northwest who actually looks like who I would consider seriously......sorry I don't remember what they're called. If you really want to go that route.
But if it were me personally, I'd get a good solid layout in your head, either with help or otherwise, then find someone to run equipment. Either way you're still going to have a shlt ton of hand work before you have anything worthwhile.
http://www.benblitch.blogspot.com/ Ben Blitch is a good builder, he'll travel just about anywhere. I have known him for a couple years now and he can work wonders in a very short amount of time.
Who built the Church trails in NM? I'd start there.
just now i wrote a bunch of shht against you that i realized after a while was out of line . . . . so EDIT --> gone.with all respect, (seriously), you are a filthy douche nozzle. Go smack yourself for trying to measure my ambition, skill, or dedication to ANY dig for reward of beer. better yet, pack your bags/bike and head out here to so cal so i can make you my new dirt queen.
no disrespect intended. only point i tried to make in this thread is that what we all love doing (building) HAS value. . . . . and i guess it's a bitch (or even wrong) to quantify it.
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i don't know if it was just my work computer blocking the youtube--i didn't see that before. you obviously got a lot of rad **** goin on already. and that's a big backyard. cheers.
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No worries, CMC. It's all in good fun anyway.