1 of each size. Going quick
TLD SE2 on Chain Love
- Thread starter sayndesyn
- Start date
and at 50% off, its still more expensive than most other helmets are at full price!
yeah, but apparently most folks are willing to buy a d2 for more than that price and less coverage!
Its surprising the number of people who think moto helmets are overkill.
Back up on Chainlove right NOW.
Because they are?
Moto helmets are overkill!
They are DOT rated and SNELL rated. They have a different kind of foam (material between the padding and the helmets outer shell) and are meant to be used on the road, and on the moto track. They are meant to protect the head if you fall going 55 mph and then get run over by some 200lbs motocross bikes. SNELL helmets are required to withstand 2 strokes to the same spot, and DOT only has to withstand one. The SNELL standard might (if it didn't already) soften up the outer shell, because people riding moto bikes were getting concusions at slower speeds.
ASTM 1952 rated helmets also require a chinbar strength requirement (DOT does not guarantee facial protection!). They are meant to take smaller impacts (20-45mph, 50mph PINNING IT?). If you fall in a moto helmet going 25mph, it won't protect your head like a ASTM rated helmet would. And I see many many more slow speed crashes in rock gardens, and even big kickers, than I do highspeed crashes.
Do yourself a favor and do not get a SNELL rated helmet at least: http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1035
ALSO... DOT helmets have poorer ventilation than ASTM. Here's a quote I pulled up from another thread on ridemonkey:
"The primary difference between an ASTM 1952 certified helmet and a DOT helmet is that the ASTM 1952 helmet may not pass one criteria that the DOT helmet will. that one criteria is a scenario where a sharply pointed, 7lbs projectile is dropped vertically from 3 meters (IIRC) directly onto the helmet shell. The ASTM helmet will not pass because it will have larger vent openings. For the DOT helmet to pass it cannot have holes larger than about 3/8" which equates to poor ventilation and that's not really ideal for the bicycle application. larger vents are more appropriate for a bicycle as ventilation is required for comfort and there are far fewer sharp metal objects you might encounter at motorcycle-like velocities."
CSPC helmets are out of the question, they are for ordinary riding.
These are ASTM rated:
Specialized Deviant
Giro Remedy
Fox Rampage
TLD D2 Composite (not carbon, it's debatable as to whether it meets the standard)
The Six Six One Evolution (lookin pretty cool)
Pick your helmet for your sport. You wouldn't use a football helmet for motocross, would you?
There is such a thing as over protection, the foam needs to conform to your head at certain speeds. Otherwise, say you hit a tree going 15mph head on with a SNELL or DOT helmet, your brain won't decelerate quite fast enough, resulting in a concusion.
You can have proper protection, light weight, and ventilation with an ASTM rated helmet. Also, it appears POC is comming out with a helmet soon as well, and from what I hear, it will be a bit pricey, ($265 for Cortex Flow, and $525 for Cortex DH, from what the 2009 Decline Buyer's guy says).
One more quote from another forum, just some general knowledge "Most people will tell you that you shouldn't keep any quality helmet for MTB or MX for years. Aside from needing to replace a helmet after any significant contact with the ground, or multiple little diggers, helmets have a shelf life. You shouldn't even use an XC helmet after 5 years (even if you never crashed in it) because the materials they are made of begin to degrade and aren't as strong. Any manufacturer will tell you that. So, keeping and using any DH or MX helmet for years is a pretty stupid idea, but it's your head so by all means feel free."
Also, if you are complaining about price... I just turned 18, pay for everything I use to ride (bikes, protective equipment, car, gas, lift tickets, food, etc...) and if you have a $50 head, buy a $50 helmet, if you value your brains, buy something good.
They are DOT rated and SNELL rated. They have a different kind of foam (material between the padding and the helmets outer shell) and are meant to be used on the road, and on the moto track. They are meant to protect the head if you fall going 55 mph and then get run over by some 200lbs motocross bikes. SNELL helmets are required to withstand 2 strokes to the same spot, and DOT only has to withstand one. The SNELL standard might (if it didn't already) soften up the outer shell, because people riding moto bikes were getting concusions at slower speeds.
ASTM 1952 rated helmets also require a chinbar strength requirement (DOT does not guarantee facial protection!). They are meant to take smaller impacts (20-45mph, 50mph PINNING IT?). If you fall in a moto helmet going 25mph, it won't protect your head like a ASTM rated helmet would. And I see many many more slow speed crashes in rock gardens, and even big kickers, than I do highspeed crashes.
Do yourself a favor and do not get a SNELL rated helmet at least: http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1035
ALSO... DOT helmets have poorer ventilation than ASTM. Here's a quote I pulled up from another thread on ridemonkey:
"The primary difference between an ASTM 1952 certified helmet and a DOT helmet is that the ASTM 1952 helmet may not pass one criteria that the DOT helmet will. that one criteria is a scenario where a sharply pointed, 7lbs projectile is dropped vertically from 3 meters (IIRC) directly onto the helmet shell. The ASTM helmet will not pass because it will have larger vent openings. For the DOT helmet to pass it cannot have holes larger than about 3/8" which equates to poor ventilation and that's not really ideal for the bicycle application. larger vents are more appropriate for a bicycle as ventilation is required for comfort and there are far fewer sharp metal objects you might encounter at motorcycle-like velocities."
CSPC helmets are out of the question, they are for ordinary riding.
These are ASTM rated:
Specialized Deviant
Giro Remedy
Fox Rampage
TLD D2 Composite (not carbon, it's debatable as to whether it meets the standard)
The Six Six One Evolution (lookin pretty cool)
Pick your helmet for your sport. You wouldn't use a football helmet for motocross, would you?
There is such a thing as over protection, the foam needs to conform to your head at certain speeds. Otherwise, say you hit a tree going 15mph head on with a SNELL or DOT helmet, your brain won't decelerate quite fast enough, resulting in a concusion.
You can have proper protection, light weight, and ventilation with an ASTM rated helmet. Also, it appears POC is comming out with a helmet soon as well, and from what I hear, it will be a bit pricey, ($265 for Cortex Flow, and $525 for Cortex DH, from what the 2009 Decline Buyer's guy says).
One more quote from another forum, just some general knowledge "Most people will tell you that you shouldn't keep any quality helmet for MTB or MX for years. Aside from needing to replace a helmet after any significant contact with the ground, or multiple little diggers, helmets have a shelf life. You shouldn't even use an XC helmet after 5 years (even if you never crashed in it) because the materials they are made of begin to degrade and aren't as strong. Any manufacturer will tell you that. So, keeping and using any DH or MX helmet for years is a pretty stupid idea, but it's your head so by all means feel free."
Also, if you are complaining about price... I just turned 18, pay for everything I use to ride (bikes, protective equipment, car, gas, lift tickets, food, etc...) and if you have a $50 head, buy a $50 helmet, if you value your brains, buy something good.
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I use a moto helmet (Fox V3) and I will continue to, because it is not significantly heavier than a ghetto Giro Remedy, it has a slimmer profile than a remedy, it is more comfortable than a Remedy, and when I'm pinned, it will protect me better than a Remedy. Even in the Northwest, we have sections of trail, and jumps where you're moving fast, and a flimsy D2, Rampage, etc will not protect you the same.
I've ridden dirtbikes my whole life, and mountainbikes for the past nine years, and have gotten a number of concussions in all types of helmets. The extra ring you get in slow speed crashes with a moto helmet is a small price to pay for not ****ing dying when you go over the bars Jonny Waddel style.
I don't think you can overprotect your head if you're like me and spend, or have spent thousands on an education, trade, etc. Small concussions won't kill you, but major ones will at least make you talk like John Cowan. And as far as ventilation, take your helmet off when you ride up. Even during 110 degree days in the interior, I am perfectly comfortable riding in my moto lid.
I've ridden dirtbikes my whole life, and mountainbikes for the past nine years, and have gotten a number of concussions in all types of helmets. The extra ring you get in slow speed crashes with a moto helmet is a small price to pay for not ****ing dying when you go over the bars Jonny Waddel style.
I don't think you can overprotect your head if you're like me and spend, or have spent thousands on an education, trade, etc. Small concussions won't kill you, but major ones will at least make you talk like John Cowan. And as far as ventilation, take your helmet off when you ride up. Even during 110 degree days in the interior, I am perfectly comfortable riding in my moto lid.
clap! clap! clap! clap!
This reply has written by an 18 year old all over it... muppet
lthumbsdown:so what helmet do you run smarty pants?
TLD D2.
I wasn't trying to be a dick. I got 2 bad concusions last summer, and it literally changed my personality a little. It made me wake up a little about safety. I just hate to see it happen to anyone else...
And you know people, they don't just take your word for it, I try to entail some tenable facts about just how helmets work, and what I have learned asking around and reading up on the subject after I got my concusions to help.
I run a D2 Carbon. Does it meet certifications?
TLD claims that the D2 carbon is ASTM rated. Where did you get the info from?
Several years back a bike mag tested a brand new Giro Exodus vs. the same model that had been used for 2-3 years, including exposure to temp changes, UV, etc.. They used the CE test (I think) and both helmets showed similar results for how they protected the rider. So they busted that myth. The manufacturers just try to save their a$$es by telling you that because they have no idea how the users treat their helmets.
Not saying that it is not a good idea to replace a helmet after some time, but there doesn't seem to be a scientific reason to do so.
Alright, thanks. I just thought the material might have gotten warped by rays, and just material would fatigue over time. Maybe it could also be a pitch for more sales too?
Anyways, I read this in another thread a long time ago. It took me a little to find it, but here ya go.
"i just checked the TLD manual that came with my D2 lid(composite) and sure enough its certified by astm 1952-downhill, and astm 2032-BMX, BUT, and i emphasize BUT, the carbon fiber model does not meet astm 1952, only the casual biking 1446/1447"
This is scanned from my TLD manual:
Anyways, I read this in another thread a long time ago. It took me a little to find it, but here ya go.
"i just checked the TLD manual that came with my D2 lid(composite) and sure enough its certified by astm 1952-downhill, and astm 2032-BMX, BUT, and i emphasize BUT, the carbon fiber model does not meet astm 1952, only the casual biking 1446/1447"
This is scanned from my TLD manual:
Remember, it was only one test of one model of helmet. It is not statistically significant. This test just indicates that this might be not as big of a problem as some might want you to believe.
Interesting. I was not aware of the specific ASTM downhill standard. What is the difference of this to the normal one?
I found a good comparison of standards here:
http://www.bhsi.org/standard.htm
http://www.bhsi.org/stdchart.htm
http://www.bhsi.org/stdcomp.htm
but the ASTM 1952 is not listed.
And you have to pay 31 $ to get the ASTM documents fom their website. I am wondering what makes the carbon not meeting the standard? The g-forces are reduced by the foam, which should be identical in both helmets. So it might be the impact resistence from sharp objects or the face guard that is not up to that standard.
I was thinking maybe it had to do with the deflection characteristics of the carbon fiber. I will look the standards up, and try to find something with validity talking about ASTM 1952.Remember, it was only one test of one model of helmet. It is not statistically significant. This test just indicates that this might be not as big of a problem as some might want you to believe.
Interesting. I was not aware of the specific ASTM downhill standard. What is the difference of this to the normal one?
I found a good comparison of standards here:
http://www.bhsi.org/standard.htm
http://www.bhsi.org/stdchart.htm
http://www.bhsi.org/stdcomp.htm
but the ASTM 1952 is not listed.
And you have to pay 31 $ to get the ASTM documents fom their website. I am wondering what makes the carbon not meeting the standard? The g-forces are reduced by the foam, which should be identical in both helmets. So it might be the impact resistence from sharp objects or the face guard that is not up to that standard.
Haha, yea, $31 for some documents... I am actually tempted for some reason to buy them. Maybe it's just curiosity and wanting a full understanding the matter.