[mtg]

When people are talking about burping tubeless setups, was this a properly done UST tire on UST rim, or some ghetto job?

My experience with UST High Rollers on 823 & Deemax rims has been bullet proof.

 

[Transcend]

It's not 2 tubes. Can't tell you what it is (not le systeme), but I'm sitting at dinner with the guy who came up with it right now.

 

[jonKranked]

It's not 2 tubes. Can't tell you what it is (not le systeme), but I'm sitting at dinner with the guy who came up with it right now.

you're having dinner with photoshop?

 

[cableguy]

It's not 2 tubes. Can't tell you what it is (not le systeme), but I'm sitting at dinner with the guy who came up with it right now.

Chris Kovarik should have dinner with him also.

 

[GoodbyePorkPie]

Are any of you guys runing the Kaiser or the Schwalbes dry on 823s? Neither one is listed as a UST.

Don't think the Kaiser comes in UST!

Using Sun Equalisers 31, run tubes but no issues in rock gardens one area I seem to be able to go fast lol,

The sidewalls are the stiffest by some way over any tire Ive seen or used, so ghetto would be no issue! I can't be bothered with UST though on DH bikes, I change my own tires and too often, though that may change with this tire.

I might get an back up set Deemax's with Rain Kings on em over time, then Ghetto both sets, am so impressed with Conti, after years of disappointment, if they last like others have said will be well worth it, in dry an only be better.

Such a fast tire for the size of the knobs especially on the side, massive, but seem strong. Black Chilli is the real deal

 

[BrayDownhill]

It's not 2 tubes. Can't tell you what it is (not le systeme), but I'm sitting at dinner with the guy who came up with it right now.

I hope this is an I cant tell you what it is YET!!! Love watching new technologies or even tweaks on standard stuff develop and play out at the top level World Cup races.

 

[al-irl]

Im very interested to find out whats going on with that twin valve setup.

On the tires thing I've been running the Conti Rain Kings since Feb and they have been great. They are wearing very well and just seem to work in everything except very muddy conditions where you would want full spikes. There like riding cut wet screams but they roll way faster and don't wear out. I've had the pleasure of trying them in a range of conditions due to unusually dry weather recently and they've worked in everything from soft loamy conditions to dry dusty and rocky ones. They seem fairly good on punctures aswell. I've been running them with mid weight tubes and only had a few.

 

[worship_mud]

On the tires thing I've been running the Conti Rain Kings since Feb and they have been great. They are wearing very well and just seem to work in everything except very muddy conditions where you would want full spikes. There like riding cut wet screams but they roll way faster and don't wear out. I've had the pleasure of trying them in a range of conditions due to unusually dry weather recently and they've worked in everything from soft loamy conditions to dry dusty and rocky ones. They seem fairly good on punctures aswell. I've been running them with mid weight tubes and only had a few.

^^^ exactly my experience! great tire, recommended!

 

[bullcrew]

Are any of you guys runing the Kaiser or the Schwalbes dry on 823s? Neither one is listed as a UST.

No... I always put stans in all my tires period....
Alan did a massive drift and sliced a DH Muddy mary on a nasty sharp rock Tuesday and the sealant filled it it... It nicked the rim internally hard as well so no tire would have stopped it or kept from getting ripped but the stans was the difference between finishing the ride and not having to stop and repair it trailside... They got 2 more LONG runs in and no air needed...

As far as the sidewalls hissing NEVER had that on the freeride or the DH casing Schwalbes they are always solid enough and part of the reason is the snakeskin and added rubber there...

Kendas HISS and spit at you from the sidewalls and if you look close enough at them they will pop a new thread out and spit at you..

My rear MM Guey Gluey is looking a bit tattered from a bunch of long rocky dry hard pack rides and loose over hard but its a GG rear right now, usually a triple rear and a GG front is pretty spot on with a long life expectancy...

So I wouldnt run them dry, always a scoop or 2 of stans to protect from the stabbing rocks is a good idea and thats any tire set up tubeless...

 

[Orvan]

Oh the Kaisers apparently wear super well also so might be the new alternative to the expensive Schwables that wear super fast.

Der Kaiser - The Emperor !

Der Kaiser

In the lab, the Kaiser shows off with its profile design, casing angles and the compound recipe. On course, it readily navigates the rocky, muddy, slopes of World Cup DH courses. Combining a double-walled casing with a special soft & tacky Black Chili compound formed into a brand new DH-specific tread pattern the Kaiser is the new master of gravity.

I heard about the wear characteristics of the Contis being great compared to Schwalbes. If I ever switch companies, Contis is right up there. I like the open ridge between the center and shoulder knob pattern.

 

[rockofullr]

It's not 2 tubes. Can't tell you what it is (not le systeme), but I'm sitting at dinner with the guy who came up with it right now.

Was it candle lit? Did you two go to a movie after? How was he in bed?

Either spit it out or stop being an a$$ and trying to show off.

 

[bizutch]

Irony of the team Michelin guys not having tires is that I saw a pair of new Michelins mounted up and being ridden this weekend. The replacement for the Comp 24 2.5 is a much bigger tire than before. I want it as my do all tire. WANT!

 

[rockofullr]

Irony of the team Michelin guys not having tires is that I saw a pair of new Michelins mounted up and being ridden this weekend. The replacement for the Comp 24 2.5 is a much bigger tire than before. I want it as my do all tire. WANT!

I'm with you on that!

Still waiting on FCLinder for some reviews though.

 

[TrailzHozer]

I heard about the wear characteristics of the Contis being great compared to Schwalbes. If I ever switch companies, Contis is right up there. I like the open ridge between the center and shoulder knob pattern.

hope the center knobs are not as tall as the the Barracuda's. The lack of transition knobs on the Barracuda, combined with the mile high center knobs really kills it for me. Simply do not like how that tire feels.

 

[odinnn]

Are any of you guys runing the Kaiser or the Schwalbes dry on 823s? Neither one is listed as a UST.

The Kaiser will not hold air without sealant, the sidewalls and bead will hiss alot. I have a phone video of it if needed.

 

[norbar]

hope the center knobs are not as tall as the the Barracuda's. The lack of transition knobs on the Barracuda, combined with the mile high center knobs really kills it for me. Simply do not like how that tire feels.

I liked mine. They felt a bit different than maxxis but on some tracks they offered amazing grip. Very good for rooted tracks on the wet when the ground is still rather hard. Though I rock maxxis now.

As for the tubeless 823 schwable and kaiser - how low in terms of pressure you can go with sealant? I tend to run ~20psi in the front tire now and Im not a fan of burping tires

 

[Nozzes]

Two tubes?
UST tires?
Really high tire pressures?

I'm not interested in any of this.

I've used Sun EQ31+Rubena FR tube (~400gr.)+Bontrager Big Earl WC 2.5 ~1100gr.) for 1 1/2 years without flats.In this period I've raced some 15 DH races here in Portugal and the Megavalanche in France.That adds up to some 1000+ km!
Currently I'm using Onza Canis 2.4 at the front,with the same good results.Tire pressure allways around the 2 bar mark,front and rear.

The secret for this setup seems to be at the rims,the EQ bends with the pinch-flat-hard hits,saving the day with a little flat spot on the rim but no flat tire!
Since it is a inexpensive rim,I can change it twice a season or so and keep flats away...fingers crossed for the next race,it's the rockiest track of Portugal Cup!

 

[epic]

Wait, ONZA??? Is Onza back in the game? I think for MSA the UCI should make everybody run white Porcs as an homage to the 1990 Worlds.

 

[bizutch]

Wait, ONZA??? Is Onza back in the game? I think for MSA the UCI should make everybody run white Porcs as an homage to the 1990 Worlds.

they're clipless pedals should have been called "Neverunclip"

 

[epic]

they're clipless pedals should have been called "Neverunclip"

We called them "On Za Ground".

 

[Nozzes]

Yes Onza is back...no it isn't the old Onza,just the name that was bought by a Swiss company called Ibex. http://www.onzatires.com/
These tires are great quality rubber and tread design!

 

[cableguy]

Looks like Mick Hannaha was running 2 tubes in the rear

Mystery solved (I guessed right ). From the latest MBUK:

 

[S.K.C.]

Yup... That sounds a lot like "Le Systemme" - but in this instance it is being done with Maxxis High Rollers... Probably not the "Le Systemme" but something similar to it set up by the GT mechanics. Pretty cool.

When Riffle was on the short-lived Honda/Iron Horse team in 07' he had full race support from Michi and used "Le Systemme" from time to time... But mostly he ran either a Comp 24 or 16 in back with a Maxxis TS rim strip on a 721 and a Michi Comp 32 up front on an 823.

Le Systemme has been lurking in the shadows for years actually... aside from rim modification, - curious as to why Michi hasn't made it a public offering yet...

 

[leprechaun]

Not really like Le System at all but really not a bad idea. There's nearly no drawback. You would have to use a UST tire, or at least have the tire sealed to the rim somehow, and be sure the tube valve was sealed to the rim as well.

On second thought, why is there even a need for the UST valve? The tire will inflate as soon as the tube pinches. It's not like Mic is going to keep doing laps with a dead tube inside of his UST setup. Even if he did the valve should still be useable.

 

[William42]

Not really like Le System at all but really not a bad idea. There's nearly no drawback. You would have to use a UST tire, or at least have the tire sealed to the rim somehow, and be sure the tube valve was sealed to the rim as well.

On second thought, why is there even a need for the UST valve? The tire will inflate as soon as the tube pinches. It's not like Mic is going to keep doing laps with a dead tube inside of his UST setup. Even if he did the valve should still be useable.

what he said

 

[cableguy]

^^ Have a friend who does this for racing, and he uses the 2nd UST valve to make sure that the tire is sealed using Stan's and air pressure. Otherwise, you are just running a DH tire with a tube inside on a UST rim.

 

[rockdog]

How would you seal the tube's valve stem? If the tube blows wouldn't it just leak out at the valve stem? And if you sealed the tube's valve stem why would you need the second ust valve?

I see that a couple folks have mused the same thing above.

 

[leprechaun]

^^ Have a friend who does this for racing, and he uses the 2nd UST valve to make sure that the tire is sealed using Stan's and air pressure. Otherwise, you are just running a DH tire with a tube inside on a UST rim.

Yeah i was just thinking of how it can be tough to get a UST tire to seat onto the bead hook if there's a tube inside. It can also be checked to be sure it does seal up.

"How would you seal the tube's valve stem? If the tube blows wouldn't it just leak out at the valve stem? And if you sealed the tube's valve stem why would you need the second ust valve?"
Today 04:40 PM

Presta tube- get that nut tight! maybe a tough of silicone glue too, or just the stans.

 

[cableguy]

How would you seal the tube's valve stem? If the tube blows wouldn't it just leak out at the valve stem? And if you sealed the tube's valve stem why would you need the second ust valve?

Presta with rubber o-rings just like UST. See above for the answer to the last question.

 

[S.K.C.]

Not really like Le System at all but really not a bad idea. There's nearly no drawback. You would have to use a UST tire, or at least have the tire sealed to the rim somehow, and be sure the tube valve was sealed to the rim as well.

Really? When I spoke with Riffle in the pits about it back in 07' he said it wasn't all that complicated and described what I thought sounded similar to the above set up that Marc was running at Ft. Bill...

 

[leprechaun]

Really? When I spoke with Riffle in the pits about it back in 07' he said it wasn't all that complicated and described what I thought sounded similar to the above set up that Marc was running at Ft. Bill...

From what i understand Le System was kind of the other way around. The tire is setup tubeless, and then there is a small tube type insert that looks more like a road tire to hold the tire on and get it seated. I think the insert would be inflated first to seal the tire on. If you puncture the tire you can ride on the insert. The insert is pretty small so it "feels like riding on 12 psi" but the tire will stay on. BC Van described it this way. I recall seeing Nico winning a WC one year and seeing him riding around the finish area with his fist pumping in the air, and seeing the tire 1/2 flat but still totally rideable.

With this new system of a tube inside the tire, if the tire was pinched through at the same time the tube was, the whole thing would go flat.

The old system was difficult to set up, getting the tire under the insert would be difficult and caused emergency tire changes stressful, sometimes having to go without in the last minute apparently. Mavic(/Michelin?) techs had to be on hand to change tires.

The old insert may have protected the rim a bit too, like a bumper when you hit the rim. It could run high pressure so it must have been tough, like a casing, not just a thick tube type rubber insert. I imagine sidewall cuts were a bigger problem back then since the casings weren't up to what we have these days.

This insert may have weighed more than a tube.

This insert allowed the Mavic 721 to be setup tubeless, which was Nico's standard rim choice.

From what i've read on other threads on the subject this led to UST with Mavic for simplicity/sellable reasons

 

[rockdog]

Ok so tighten the nut, use an oring or silicone to seal the valve stem makes sense, but why the second valve stem? Am I missing something? The second valve stem seems unnecessary unless your adding pressure in the tube and outside of the tube as well.

 

[rockdog]

Just read cable guy's reply about his buddy using the stans plus the tube. That has got to be as close to flat proof as possible.

 

[Verskis]

Just saw a picture of Gee Atherton from Crankworx Canadian Open race, and once again he was not running Continental tires. It was Highrollers this time.

Has he raced Continental tires this season anywhere, but on Fort William (where he was using Kaisers, to my knowledge)? All I have seen are Wet Screams on the wet and Highrollers on the dry.


What tires do the Kenda sponsored team GT use on the dry? On the wet I think they are using Wet Screams.

How about team Lapierre? They are sponsored by Hutchinson, but I have not seen clear enough pictures to recognise the tires they are actually using.

The only non-Maxxis sponsored major teams to constantly use the actual rubber they are sponsored by are the Specialized and Yeti, or am I wrong?


These may be slightly geeky questions, but I find the tire choices extremely interesting!

 

[epic]

Kovarik seems to use Schwalbes.