I have an 06 Sunday, Im looking to get some diffrnt frame decals. Anyone know where I could get some??
The Official Iron Horse Sunday / DW-Link Tech. & Tuning Section
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
You should take a look on these two, both make great decal works for Sundays:
www.slikgraphics.com
www.rufusphoto.com
www.slikgraphics.com
www.rufusphoto.com
Hey,
I'll get straight to the point. '09 Sunday, want to clean and grease the bearings and axle that goes through the rear of the lower link and the chainstay pivots. I can get both bolts out and bearing covers off. However, when I put in a longer bolt and try to tap the axle through, the bearing on the opposite side starts to come out of the frame along with the axle. This happens whatever side I tap it from, so it's not totally seized into the bearing on just one side, it must just be a really tight fit on both sides. Am I doing this right, or is there a different procedure? If it's the right way, any ideas on how to keep the bearings in place while the axle comes out? I'm not keen to faff about refitting bearings every time I clean the hardware.
Cheers
I'll get straight to the point. '09 Sunday, want to clean and grease the bearings and axle that goes through the rear of the lower link and the chainstay pivots. I can get both bolts out and bearing covers off. However, when I put in a longer bolt and try to tap the axle through, the bearing on the opposite side starts to come out of the frame along with the axle. This happens whatever side I tap it from, so it's not totally seized into the bearing on just one side, it must just be a really tight fit on both sides. Am I doing this right, or is there a different procedure? If it's the right way, any ideas on how to keep the bearings in place while the axle comes out? I'm not keen to faff about refitting bearings every time I clean the hardware.
Cheers
My opinion would be to just take it all apart then. Could try some "nut breaker" or "free" spray on it in hopes that it would loosen the shaft/bearing interface. Or try a pipe or deep socket fitted to the outer bearing race and a clamp over the works to press it out. Gonna be rather tricky either way. Everything on my Sunday fit real snug with tight interfaces. If it wasn't like that it would eventually wallow all the mounting points out, so it's a good thing IMO. Once you get it all apart: replace the necessary bearings and use the bearing/sleeve retaining compound mentioned a pile of pages back to lock the bearings in the bores. That is the proper way and has done me right! Also it has been my experience that the Sunday hardware doesn't take too well to being taken apart regularily and with the bits and pieces gettin scarce, it is an even better idea to do it right and leave it alone.
Hehe, you make it sound like a medical condition!
Anyway, the reason I was taking it out is I've had it for about 6 months over the winter and the area of the rear of the link is a proper mud magnet. It's been literally packed in there every ride for months, and I have to admit, hosed (but not pressure washed) through the gap to clean it. I've rigged up a better inner tube mudguard that should help, but turning the axle using the bolts feels a bit gritty. Not like a properly wrecked bearing, just not as smooth as it was. I'm kind of surprised at the recommendation to just tighten it and leave it though, I thought the more TLC the better to be honest. In any case, I suppose I'll have to deal with refitting one of the bearings at least. Slightly concerned about that because I don't have a drift or anything, so it'll have to be a ghetto fix with a bit of wood and a hammer.
Or relationship advice...
I was the same as you, lots of mud and lots of pressure washing. I came up with two solutions to help the bearings out. One was to fit two small o-rings sealing the gap between the extended inner race and bearing seat (in the swingarm), which stops mud/dirt entering the bearing. If you read back through the thread, I posted close-up pics. The MAX bearings have a small gap used to fill the bearing with balls, which means they aren't sealed as well as regular bearings - and therefore benefit from secondary sealing like I described. I just found o-rings that fit snug (while still letting the bearing rotate) - but I have my frame apart at the moment and will figure out the exact sizes over the next few weeks.
The other was to drill 3 holes (maybe 7mm in diamter) in the swingarm below the lower link. It means that mud doesn't build up as much, and when you wash it it "empties out" very quickly and easily compared to before, so you don't have to hose the area so hard.
I made both mods over a year ago now and have had no problems, the bearings were still smooth and greased when I took them out. Without the o-rings the previous year, the bearings were full of dirt on inspection.
For fitting the bearings, you can use a large long bolt with a combination of washers and nuts to make a home made press, which will be a neater solution than banging away with hammers. If you're pulling it all apart, it's probably worth replacing the bearings (if you aren't already). Also, using loctite 609 retaining compound between the pivot axle for the lower link, and the inside of the lower link itself - will prolong the interface and remove existing play + prevent it developing play over time. The same product can be used when installing new bearings to help them stay in the seats a bit better, but they usually slide out when removing the pivot anyway (which is why I suggested just dealing with it haha).
Anyway that's just how I attacked everything personally... hopefully you get something out of it.
I was the same as you, lots of mud and lots of pressure washing. I came up with two solutions to help the bearings out. One was to fit two small o-rings sealing the gap between the extended inner race and bearing seat (in the swingarm), which stops mud/dirt entering the bearing. If you read back through the thread, I posted close-up pics. The MAX bearings have a small gap used to fill the bearing with balls, which means they aren't sealed as well as regular bearings - and therefore benefit from secondary sealing like I described. I just found o-rings that fit snug (while still letting the bearing rotate) - but I have my frame apart at the moment and will figure out the exact sizes over the next few weeks.
The other was to drill 3 holes (maybe 7mm in diamter) in the swingarm below the lower link. It means that mud doesn't build up as much, and when you wash it it "empties out" very quickly and easily compared to before, so you don't have to hose the area so hard.
I made both mods over a year ago now and have had no problems, the bearings were still smooth and greased when I took them out. Without the o-rings the previous year, the bearings were full of dirt on inspection.
For fitting the bearings, you can use a large long bolt with a combination of washers and nuts to make a home made press, which will be a neater solution than banging away with hammers. If you're pulling it all apart, it's probably worth replacing the bearings (if you aren't already). Also, using loctite 609 retaining compound between the pivot axle for the lower link, and the inside of the lower link itself - will prolong the interface and remove existing play + prevent it developing play over time. The same product can be used when installing new bearings to help them stay in the seats a bit better, but they usually slide out when removing the pivot anyway (which is why I suggested just dealing with it haha).
Anyway that's just how I attacked everything personally... hopefully you get something out of it.
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Thanks for that post Udi, lot of stuff in there that will help. 
I think I'll try the O-ring idea, not too sure about drilling the frame though! Maybe something to try once I've had it a bit longer and stopped caring so much. I think I'll see if I can get a bit longer out of these bearings cos the back end does still feel solid when it's all done up, I'll probably just clean the sh*te out of it.
Cheers
I think I'll try the O-ring idea, not too sure about drilling the frame though! Maybe something to try once I've had it a bit longer and stopped caring so much. I think I'll see if I can get a bit longer out of these bearings cos the back end does still feel solid when it's all done up, I'll probably just clean the sh*te out of it.Cheers
Mark I found the original bearings that were fitted from the factory to be garbage, I tore down my Sunday after a year for powder coating and most of them were stiff as hell! Bottom link ones being the worst. Just inspected them again the other week and the current ones that I fitted after powder coating are still really nice. I reckon I've ridden about the same, probably more on the newer bearings, erm your aware of my own personal maintenance plan....
Mike, have you got the newest version of the linkage on your bike? I ask because there's a difference between the bearings required isn't there? As in you need a bearing with an extended inner race on the new ones, and the older ones need spacers, or vice versa. I'm kind of confused on this tbh!
Anyway, did you just order some SKF or FAG bearings online or was it some high end kit you got from your work?
Yeah mate, new style. My Sunday is exactly the same as yours if I'm not mistaken. I've never seen the old style of bearings but the new ones have the extended races.
I just went the easy (lazy) option and ordered them from BETD, I thought they would be knackered by now and was expecting to order some new ones but they have lasted, the seals did look different than the original bearings but I never really thought about it at the time.
I just went the easy (lazy) option and ordered them from BETD, I thought they would be knackered by now and was expecting to order some new ones but they have lasted, the seals did look different than the original bearings but I never really thought about it at the time.
MarkDH: I've got a neat solution for you. Like Udi said, seal the inner races with some o-rings. I did this on each and every bearing, I recon that it'll really help you with keeping the mud out.
Another solution, which I would recommend to all Sunday owners, is - besides istalling a mudguard - to stick some motofoam in places with tendencies to get filled with mud. Compared to your solution, Udi, with the drilling - this is a "nondestructional" method.
But of course, it's rather obvious that without a proper pre maintainance made (cleaning, greasing, tightening etc.), all of the above solutions won't prevent the bearings and/or axles to get seized...
Another solution, which I would recommend to all Sunday owners, is - besides istalling a mudguard - to stick some motofoam in places with tendencies to get filled with mud. Compared to your solution, Udi, with the drilling - this is a "nondestructional" method.
But of course, it's rather obvious that without a proper pre maintainance made (cleaning, greasing, tightening etc.), all of the above solutions won't prevent the bearings and/or axles to get seized...
Hello. I have recently bought the IH Sunday and I tried to find the information on what would be the best way how to take out rear shock. I know it should be somewhere in those 162 pages, but unfortunately I wasn't able to find. Thank you.
maybe by power of will:
or lazers
or you could read a few pages on here where I went through it, or the first page when the pros went through it, or whatever.
Could you please show me where that is? because i wasn't able to come across it.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3317780&postcount=2238
Sorry for my sarcastic response, I'm just teasing.
Sorry for my sarcastic response, I'm just teasing.
Yeah I don't recommend anyone drill their frame. It's just that I have two frames and one is 3 years old, so it's well past the "babying" stage. Dents and gouges everywhere, chunks taken out from dropouts by rocks, but still going strong.
The other one is the 2009 WC and it's still bone stock.
Hi Guys,
Hoping you could all lead me in the direction.
I came across this Sunday, it is missing the lower link and bearing/pivots, and a shock. In looking through this thread I have able to determine that this is a 05/06 frame.
First question is it worth/possible to find the link and pivots?
Second, any idea where to find the parts?
The rest of the frame is in pretty descent shape, it's been ridden hard but no cracks that I have found yet.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Hoping you could all lead me in the direction.
I came across this Sunday, it is missing the lower link and bearing/pivots, and a shock. In looking through this thread I have able to determine that this is a 05/06 frame.
First question is it worth/possible to find the link and pivots?
Second, any idea where to find the parts?
The rest of the frame is in pretty descent shape, it's been ridden hard but no cracks that I have found yet.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Attachments
That's a 2005 WC.
It's pretty old, 0.9lbs heavier than the 07+ frames, and has the old linkages etc. I wouldn't recommend buying a sunday frame that doesn't have all its parts either for obvious reasons.
The bearings and pivots can be obtained easily, however the links are rare these days. You can buy the BOS link (expensive) or someone else's (usually expensive too).
Hope that answers your questions.
It's pretty old, 0.9lbs heavier than the 07+ frames, and has the old linkages etc. I wouldn't recommend buying a sunday frame that doesn't have all its parts either for obvious reasons.
The bearings and pivots can be obtained easily, however the links are rare these days. You can buy the BOS link (expensive) or someone else's (usually expensive too).
Hope that answers your questions.
Udi,
thanks for the quick reply. The frame was given to me so it hasn't been expensive yet.
Where can I get the Bos link? In going through this thread I have learned slot about the bikes, a great wealth of info.
Maybe I should just find another bike but then this one will be sitting in garage
thanks for the quick reply. The frame was given to me so it hasn't been expensive yet.
Where can I get the Bos link? In going through this thread I have learned slot about the bikes, a great wealth of info.
Maybe I should just find another bike but then this one will be sitting in garage
The best option would probably be to find another used up frame and frankenstein yourself a functioning one from the wreckage. You probably won't find a linkage in decent shape for a good price, but I bet you'll find plenty of older sundays lying around.
I know for fact that I have an extra old link lying around. I upgraded a year or so ago and its somewhere in my parts box. I will check tonight if I have the rest of the hardware for the linkage. If youd be interested I am sure we could work something out.
Well if you haven't paid anything for it, you're in the green. Any BOS distributor can get you the link, if you don't know one I'd recommend our one - great guy, will probably be happy to post - www.rouler.com.au. If you get the BOS or an 07+ link, you can get the pivots and bearings you need for it from www.pearcecycles.co.uk
Probably be cheaper to buy it second hand though, so see what stumpjump has going. Failing that, I have a spare 09 link I might part with too.
Probably be cheaper to buy it second hand though, so see what stumpjump has going. Failing that, I have a spare 09 link I might part with too.
I am a newbie. Hello.
I have recently brought a Sunday Elite from CRC, after the first ride and clean their was some small play in the linkage, so I checked the bolts and found that one was loose. The top of shock linkage bolt.
My questions are simply, (Before you say, I have read majority of this thread)
1) Is there a need to check all linkage bolts after every ride? Should I locktight them?
2) I am a little overweight (no comment) at 15.5 stone/210lb and running a 350lb shock as standard with the bike. I thinking that will likely need 400lb to 450lb spring from the calculations I have made, does this seem right?
Thanks in advance.
I have recently brought a Sunday Elite from CRC, after the first ride and clean their was some small play in the linkage, so I checked the bolts and found that one was loose. The top of shock linkage bolt.
My questions are simply, (Before you say, I have read majority of this thread)
1) Is there a need to check all linkage bolts after every ride? Should I locktight them?
2) I am a little overweight (no comment) at 15.5 stone/210lb and running a 350lb shock as standard with the bike. I thinking that will likely need 400lb to 450lb spring from the calculations I have made, does this seem right?
Thanks in advance.
1) Yes, You are supposed to use a small amount of loctite on the linkage bolts. Small and removable are key words here.
2) I weight 200 nekkid and moved from a 350 on my DHX to a 400. So far, the bike seems more lively and rides higher in its travel. I would highly recommend it based on your weight...and if the bike does not perform the way that you expect/would like. For me, I was way low in the travel and regularly struck my pedals where I shouldn't. I haven't gotten out DHing, but a trail ride suggested a positive outcome.
Wow, that would be great if you had the link and pivots. Let me know. I will check out the Bos link that Udi pointed out.
This thread is awesome, and you guys have really helped out a lot of riders.
Thanks
hey,
just wanted to get back to you - tried the 300 yesterday, in steep, rocky, rooty terrain with your suggested starting point setup - well it didnt work for me, i had to ride waaaaaaaay to active, and the rear wheel kicked back and shot me over a few times.... i did find somewhat of a starting point for myself later on - which i can post - would just have to look how much i turned each adjuster exactly - roughly i went for a bit of an opposite setting - having the highspeed rebound faster - the lowspeed deff faster than your setup and less lowspeed compression and about the same or less high speed compression - didnt use all of the travel yet - which suprised me cause with these settings and the 300 the rear felt really soft and had about 40% sag i guess - as i said i didnt measure anything yesterday (crashed hard on the last run) - with the softer setting the rearwheel didnt seem to slow down over roots and rocks - which i felt it did with your settings - but i guess i can see how you can get away with these settings riding in a totally different terrain
once i found the perfect setup for me i will post it! - and yes i think you are right with the 275 - that would be the perfect springrate - but before i buy a titanium spring i rather know what exactly i need!
Yeah I haven't tried a 300 personally, it might need more damping that what I suggested to stop it kicking.
I'd be surprised if you are getting 40% sag with the 300, but if that's the case a 275 is probably too soft. I'm interested in hearing what you measure it at.
When you say HS/LS rebound "faster" do you actually mean "slower" (i.e. more damping)? I'm guessing you do...
I usually run my stuff on the fast side in rebound so it would make sense if you ran a little more. The rearend should always be slightly slower than the fork, forgot to mention that, might explain the kicking.
I'd be surprised if you are getting 40% sag with the 300, but if that's the case a 275 is probably too soft. I'm interested in hearing what you measure it at.
When you say HS/LS rebound "faster" do you actually mean "slower" (i.e. more damping)? I'm guessing you do...
I usually run my stuff on the fast side in rebound so it would make sense if you ran a little more. The rearend should always be slightly slower than the fork, forgot to mention that, might explain the kicking.
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oooooooooooh i found the reason why the settings didnt work out at first at all - all your suggestions were from full open - and i believe somewhere on the manual one of the settings is from fully closed - i guess i got that confused - that would explain why low speed was SO slow (too much damping indeed) - and i did make it faster as in less damping - my bad!
will measure the sag as soon as i can usually i measure it on the shaft i guess thats not always accurate with the leverage changing throughout the travel but its how i did it before - do you have any other suggestions? - funny thing though is that i can how far the shock compressed by the debris left on the shaft - didnt touch the rubber-stopper just yet - but i didnt have any hard impacts either - though with the 300 on the dhx i would have bottomed out
Hahaha... well that makes sense!!
I hate adjusting from full closed, that's why I said from full open. Maybe you can try my settings again sometime properly and see what you think (they are fairly light).
As for measuring sag, I just measure on the shaft too, the sunday is fairly linear anyway so it should be fine. Also I'm interested in hearing if yours has any leaks / leaves any oil on the shaft. I had 2 CCDB's that did that, my current one seems better but I haven't ridden it enough to be sure.
I hate adjusting from full closed, that's why I said from full open. Maybe you can try my settings again sometime properly and see what you think (they are fairly light).
As for measuring sag, I just measure on the shaft too, the sunday is fairly linear anyway so it should be fine. Also I'm interested in hearing if yours has any leaks / leaves any oil on the shaft. I had 2 CCDB's that did that, my current one seems better but I haven't ridden it enough to be sure.
will do! - and yes that does make sense - everytime i turn anything i have to think again if i'm turning the right sideMaybe you can try my settings again sometime properly and see what you think (they are fairly light).
As for measuring sag, I just measure on the shaft too
as for oil leaking there is nothing yet - but ive just ridden it a few times
and yeah before the settings were really strange....
alright just got back from a little session with your settings.Hahaha... well that makes sense!!
I hate adjusting from full closed, that's why I said from full open. Maybe you can try my settings again sometime properly and see what you think (they are fairly light).
As for measuring sag, I just measure on the shaft too, the sunday is fairly linear anyway so it should be fine. Also I'm interested in hearing if yours has any leaks / leaves any oil on the shaft. I had 2 CCDB's that did that, my current one seems better but I haven't ridden it enough to be sure.
here's what i think so far - crazy sag - really between 40 and 50 % depending if i sit all the way on the rear wheel or stand up in riding position... maybe the spring isnt really a 300? i dont know how you can ride a 250
even though there is so much sag - no bottoming out yet - but i didnt push it yet - shoulder still hurts
feels bottomless - moves over small stuff fast but slows down every now and then on a bigger hit
didnt get the fork to work right with the damper yet so sometimes it does kick my rearwheel a bit
oh and its so much more sensitive/fricitionless compared to a dhx and much more to a vivid (but the vivid isnt far away from there...)
Yeah, to be honest I thought the 250 was too soft the whole time I had it... I get about 50% sag at a guess. When I tried the 275 it was a lot better. That's really crazy that you are getting that much with a 300 though, maybe like you said it isn't a 300 or it's on the soft side. There's a lot of variation with steel springs.
Like you said they are really sensitive compared to the cheaper shocks, and the other thing I like is that they are very smooth when changing direction (comp to rebound) and there's no stiction / noise / clunk etc.
Good luck with it... you should probably try a different spring that'll get you <40% sag, but I'm guilty of the same thing and it has been okay. Just gives a weird attitude around corners sometimes because the rear squats a lot more than the front.
Like you said they are really sensitive compared to the cheaper shocks, and the other thing I like is that they are very smooth when changing direction (comp to rebound) and there's no stiction / noise / clunk etc.
Good luck with it... you should probably try a different spring that'll get you <40% sag, but I'm guilty of the same thing and it has been okay. Just gives a weird attitude around corners sometimes because the rear squats a lot more than the front.
Get a titanium spring
well for now i see no point in getting a stiffer spring - because i'm not bottoming (using all the travel at times...) - i might add some more HSC and just a tad LSC so i get a bit more feeling for whats under my wheel - at times travel felt infinte - made surfing through turns feel really different but nice too
the best thing about the shock is as you said - that there is no transition from rebound to compression and you can deff feel its much more linear than a dhx in my opinion - i dont feel a lack of mid stroke compression for what i can say...
well next up are -2 cups - they'll arrive tomorrow - maybe then i have to move to a stiffer spring - for not having the bb toooooo low
Hi, i've had a look through most of this thread, but i cant seem to find a full set of bearing codes for a 2006 sunday frame? I've had a look and cant seem to find the codes on the seals for some reason, and dont want to have to take the bearings out and be left without a bike untill i order some. If anyone could post a full list of bearing codes and quantities (i presume two of each) it would be much appreciated.
Cheers, Craig
Cheers, Craig