[racerjosh]

my mate is stuck on which frame to get for his dirt jump/ trail build

he is stuck between the Curtis Trailboss (which is doubt you lot would of heard of)
http://www.curtisbikes.co.uk/trailboss.html

and a 24 Bicycles Moon frame
(dont have a link for the frame)

which one should he go for ? (i reckon the curtis)

 

[Windowlicker]

moons have some of the most disgusting drop outs i have ever seen
this picture shows them..

if that doesnt work try this
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1567067/

curtis' are sick looking tell your buddy to get one

 

[brycexlighthall]

6lb 4oz? For a frame with 16" chainstays and a $1200USD price tag? MTB companies never fail to amaze me with there day late and a dollar short style and ridiculous price points.

 

[Stoked]

def not the 24.

 

[Defenestrated]

6lb 4oz? For a frame with 16" chainstays and a $1200USD price tag? MTB companies never fail to amaze me with there day late and a dollar short style and ridiculous price points.

quotin this, you can get frames with spot on geo that hover around 5lbs for half this price man!

 

[v-digit]

Tonic Fab Fall Guy is the frame he wants.

 

[racerjosh]

i think he has swayed towards the curtis
i think the thing that swayed him was the fact the curtis can actually customise your frame as each one is build individually by hand so adjustments can be made

 

[jonKranked]

6lb 4oz? For a frame with 16" chainstays and a $1200USD price tag? MTB companies never fail to amaze me with there day late and a dollar short style and ridiculous price points.

$1200 isn't bad for a custom, handbuilt frame...

 

[offtheedge]

$1200 isn't bad for a custom, handbuilt frame...

Come on now, $1200 isn't bad for a off the rack tube set, hardtail?

why the hell am I designing fs bikes?

 

[demo 9]

simple bicycle co
make u anything u want 650
i did it def worth money

cru jones has 1 too

 

[jonKranked]

Come on now, $1200 isn't bad for a off the rack tube set, hardtail?

why the hell am I designing fs bikes?

Find me a custom, handbuilt frame that is substantially cheaper. The price has nothing to do with the tubeset, but the extra time and labor needed to design, cut, mill, etc, essentially every single piece that goes into the frame. Oh and the extra time it takes to design the frame.

$1200 is on the low end for custom frames. A custom road frame from a guy like Richard Sachs (considered by many to be one of the best hand frame builders in the business)... $4000 is the BASE price. Not to mention the wait list for a frame is about 6 years... and a $400 non-refundable deposit at the time the order is placed.

 

[demo 9]

Find me a custom, handbuilt frame that is substantially cheaper. The price has nothing to do with the tubeset, but the extra time and labor needed to design, cut, mill, etc, essentially every single piece that goes into the frame. Oh and the extra time it takes to design the frame.

$1200 is on the low end for custom frames. A custom road frame from a guy like Richard Sachs (considered by many to be one of the best hand frame builders in the business)... $4000 is the BASE price. Not to mention the wait list for a frame is about 6 years... and a $400 non-refundable deposit at the time the order is placed.

read my post $650 and a six week wait.

22.5 tt
71 seat angle
70 head angle (based around this fork)
12.75 bb
9.75 standover
15" stays
euro BB

IT COST ONLY 650 PAINTED

 

[dexter]

Find me a custom, handbuilt frame that is substantially cheaper. The price has nothing to do with the tubeset, but the extra time and labor needed to design, cut, mill, etc, essentially every single piece that goes into the frame. Oh and the extra time it takes to design the frame.

$1200 is on the low end for custom frames. A custom road frame from a guy like Richard Sachs (considered by many to be one of the best hand frame builders in the business)... $4000 is the BASE price. Not to mention the wait list for a frame is about 6 years... and a $400 non-refundable deposit at the time the order is placed.

nemesis project, simple bike co, s&m, etc etc etc

 

[jonKranked]

sorry didn't see your post until after mine showed up. The point is $1200 is still on the low end for a custom frame. $650 is definitely a great price for a custom frame, as is the turnaround time (not to mention its a b*tchin' looking whip). Most custom frames I've seen start at $1500~$2000+. That's not any particular style of frame, just custom frames in general (most of the ones I've seen were road, then xc. I wasn't aware there were so many custom dj builders. Does S&M still only do bmx or have they expanded into 26"ers as well?)

 

[jonKranked]

nemesis project

I've read mixed bag reviews of that company on the internet. Plenty of them were on RM.

 

[brycexlighthall]

The point is $1200 is still on the low end for a custom frame.

That is the Wealthy Brat/Yuppie MTB mentality, that will continually keep companies charging exorbitant amounts of money for bikes.

Most custom frames I've seen start at $1500~$2000+. That's not any particular style of frame, just custom frames in general (most of the ones I've seen were road, then xc...)

Well, then you are not comparing the same things, just because it is a bike frame doesn't mean you have a point.

 

[Defenestrated]

That is the Wealthy Brat/Yuppie MTB mentality, that will continually keep companies charging exorbitant amounts of money for bikes.

yes mtbers are wealthy yuppie brats

 

[jonKranked]

That is the Wealthy Brat/Yuppie MTB mentality, that will continually keep companies charging exorbitant amounts of money for bikes.

Ohhh man. Yes arrogant attitudes are exactly why frame builders charge "exorbitant" amounts of money. Never mind raw material costs, high overhead for the equipment required to bend/cut/miter/weld the material, and all the man hours it takes to build a frame. Don't forget insurance too. Oh and they have to eat, pay their bills, and support themselves. Frame building isn't charity work. Bikes cost a lot of money because its a small industry; it's all supply and demand. There's a reason you can buy a brand new dirt bike for less than you can a brand new dh bike.

Or you could just move out from your parent's house, go to college, get a job, and support yourself. That's what I did and its working out for me pretty well so far.

Well, then you are not comparing the same things, just because it is a bike frame doesn't mean you have a point.

Custom designed and built frames are commonly grouped in the same category. They take a lot longer from start to finish, and the work isn't going to be repeated. Custom frames are all one off's. It takes far more time to get a custom frame built from start to finish than it does a stock frame. Most of the custom frames I've seen are on the more expensive end, and coincidentally are road frames. Roadies are more willing to spend more money on a bike than a mountain biker any day of the week. There's a much larger demand for custom road frames than there is for custom DJ (or even mtb frames) frames. Its all supply and demand. If I were going to be going into business building custom frames you can bet your a$$ that I'd be primarily focusing on road frames, that's where the money is.

 

[offtheedge]

Find me a custom, handbuilt frame that is substantially cheaper. The price has nothing to do with the tubeset, but the extra time and labor needed to design, cut, mill, etc, essentially every single piece that goes into the frame. Oh and the extra time it takes to design the frame.

Extra time is minimal, unless we are talking about someone hand drawing the parts. Even the oldest of cad software would allow a competent builder/designer to make geo and size changes in a a matter of minutes. The only changes on a hardtail frame would be tube length and cope angle. It's not like there are pivot locations and motion clearances to factor in.

Too each their own, but I know the cost of materials, manufacturing and design and $1200 for a hardtail is a good day at the office if you can get it.

 

[jonKranked]

Extra time is minimal, unless we are talking about someone hand drawing the parts. Even the oldest of cad software would allow a competent builder/designer to make geo and size changes in a a matter of minutes. The only changes on a hardtail frame would be tube length and cope angle. It's not like there are pivot locations and motion clearances to factor in.

Too each their own, but I know the cost of materials, manufacturing and design and $1200 for a hardtail is a good day at the office if you can get it.

In terms of the extra time, if you counted all the man hours it takes to do a single custom one-off frame, versus the time it would take to do a single frame out of a run of say, 50 identical non-custom frames, you'd probably find a pretty substantial difference. Doing things in batch processes is a fairly substantial time savings, regardless of what is being fabricated. Why do so many companies decrease the price per unit as the order quantity goes up?

A lot of it also depends on your business model. Does your company offer a selection of standard models/frames, while doing a small number of custom frames as side work? Or are you offering custom frames exclusively? If you only do a small number of custom frames as side work, it would be easier for a company to make a smaller margin from it (resulting in lower price point) because that's not where the bulk of their business is coming from (most likely).

 

[offtheedge]

A lot of it also depends on your business model. Does your company offer a selection of standard models/frames, while doing a small number of custom frames as side work? Or are you offering custom frames exclusively? If you only do a small number of custom frames as side work, it would be easier for a company to make a smaller margin from it (resulting in lower price point) because that's not where the bulk of their business is coming from (most likely).

This is for sure the key. If you are mass producing a couple sizes in a huge manufacturing facility, then yes, setting up a custom station would be a pain. And even then, most large frame builders are having the tube sets cut and bent on cnc machines that need only a file change to make a custom set. I just doubt many large scale manufacturers (especially in this sector of the market) are offering custom anything. Custom is the realm of boutique builders and at that scale there just isn't that much effort that goes into making a custom tube set. Again, on a hard tail you aren't "re designing" as much as you are changing lengths and angles.

Much like anything for sale, "custom" sounds expensive and regardless of the extra effort into making it, you're paying for the option.

 

[jonKranked]

Custom is the realm of boutique builders and at that scale there just isn't that much effort that goes into making a custom tube set.

Bingo. It's all about scale. Trek wouldn't be able to stay afloat if it only made Sessions and Madones. They need to make their 820's and 3700's because they can reach a much broader audience as a result. The "bread and butter" if you will.

And once your at the level of boutique frames, you're not far from custom frames. Its not that much different than cars. A Trek 3700 is like a Honda Civic; whereas if you want a frame built by Richard Sachs, you're looking at what's roughly the equivalent of a McClaren. They're definitely not for everyone, but there are definitely people out there willing to buy it.

Again, on a hard tail you aren't "re designing" as much as you are changing lengths and angles.

Depends on the level of detail you wanna get into. If a builder is super anal and OCD, then they may opt to get tubes butted or tapered to exactly the length they need. But that's just ridiculous.

Custom full suspension is a whole different beast with substantially more complexity. The only company I'm aware of that ever offered this was Canfield Bros, and they have since discontinued the Signature Series.