Range seems ok considering the source. I was looking at a 2 phase hybrid system for my truck, but I don't think I have nearly the time or budget for that yet. Hell, I'm still saving for my engine at this point.
the alternative personal transportation thread
several pages (weeks) ago there was discussion about the futility of reducing car emissions given that a single flight in a commercial jet would far outweigh the car's yearly output. the "source" for this was an in-flight magazine.
well, someone crunched the numbers, albeit only for CO2 emissions vs. for the whole smog-forming array, and it looks like driving an efficient car and taking a fully booked flight is about a wash:
http://www.econewmexico.com/driving-vs-flying-co2
well, someone crunched the numbers, albeit only for CO2 emissions vs. for the whole smog-forming array, and it looks like driving an efficient car and taking a fully booked flight is about a wash:
http://www.econewmexico.com/driving-vs-flying-co2
people have been talking up VW TDI's mileage forever, and this new-gen one was reputed to get 40, 50, 60, no 70 mpg! (ok, maybe not 70, but people were bandying about 60!)
and now the truth is revealed...
30/41 mpg. yes, significantly lower mileage than a Prius with less space, a higher price, and fuel $1/gal more expensive in most areas. "but, but, it's a vw! it's pretty!"
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/21/officially-official-epa-rates-2009-jetta-tdi-at-30-41mpg/
and now the truth is revealed...
30/41 mpg. yes, significantly lower mileage than a Prius with less space, a higher price, and fuel $1/gal more expensive in most areas. "but, but, it's a vw! it's pretty!"
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/21/officially-official-epa-rates-2009-jetta-tdi-at-30-41mpg/
In my area there's something quite popular
small petrol engines with 1/2 gallon tanks. their range is ~100mi depending on rider and whatnot. Speed is 25mph. It has a clutch, too. You pedal when you want to, let the motor work when you're tired. Cheaper than a moped, cheaper than a motorized bike, WAY cheaper than a car. They're like $300 for the kit that you just have to mount to your bike.
I, though, just pedal everywhere.
small petrol engines with 1/2 gallon tanks. their range is ~100mi depending on rider and whatnot. Speed is 25mph. It has a clutch, too. You pedal when you want to, let the motor work when you're tired. Cheaper than a moped, cheaper than a motorized bike, WAY cheaper than a car. They're like $300 for the kit that you just have to mount to your bike.
I, though, just pedal everywhere.
What about hypermileing? Is it possible to pull 50+ not driving like a jackass? Just a thought. I know some people have gotten over 100mpg in a Prius that way.people have been talking up VW TDI's mileage forever, and this new-gen one was reputed to get 40, 50, 60, no 70 mpg! (ok, maybe not 70, but people were bandying about 60!)
and now the truth is revealed...
30/41 mpg. yes, significantly lower mileage than a Prius with less space, a higher price, and fuel $1/gal more expensive in most areas. "but, but, it's a vw! it's pretty!"
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/21/officially-official-epa-rates-2009-jetta-tdi-at-30-41mpg/
I was seeing much better numbers than that in my 1.9L TDI.people have been talking up VW TDI's mileage forever, and this new-gen one was reputed to get 40, 50, 60, no 70 mpg! (ok, maybe not 70, but people were bandying about 60!)
and now the truth is revealed...
30/41 mpg. yes, significantly lower mileage than a Prius with less space, a higher price, and fuel $1/gal more expensive in most areas. "but, but, it's a vw! it's pretty!"
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/21/officially-official-epa-rates-2009-jetta-tdi-at-30-41mpg/
Considering that my Mazda wagon gets about 23/26, I'd call those numbers quite good.
I would still buy another diesel if you could buy a midsize or small truck with one.
all this is all well and good, but a bus pass will cost you $1/day for transpo.
problems:
1) pollute like mad. seriously. lawn tools and these things are hideous.
2) must legally be registered as a moped
3) can't be taken on bus bike racks
4) still use gas, albeit less of it
all in all i think they're a poorer long term solution than a modern car. their only advantage is that they're cheap.
jimmydean, i imagine that hypermileing (sp? weird word) techniques would work, but i don't see why they'd benefit the diesel driver more than the gas or gas-electric hybrid driver.
buildyourown, the 2001-2003 (?) Civic HX was rated at 31/39, with the 2000 and prior model a tick better. i'd sure prefer getting 31/39 on 87 octane gas than getting 30/41 on diesel. after all, the oil billionaire T. Boone Pickens thinks that diesel will never again be below the price of gas...
N8, i have a bus pass. costs me about 45 cents per day. the bus system is much better navigated with a bike, especially an electric one, in my opinion: all trips in seattle that cross downtown require one to transfer so the ability to get quickly into the congested downtown area is key. furthermore, in my own weird work situation i'll often have to be working by the time that the bus drivers are rubbing their eyes and getting to the bus barn.
You'd prefer the diesel once both vehicles are loaded with people and gear. Better MPG and drivability when loaded versus a gasser. For sitting alone in traffic the honda would be a better choice, though.
but gearing can replace torque at the engine in producing the same effect at the wheels... hondas (and RX-8s!) are not for those who are fearful of downshifting a gear or three, yes.
Thats quite a misleading post there Toshi. :huh:people have been talking up VW TDI's mileage forever, and this new-gen one was reputed to get 40, 50, 60, no 70 mpg! (ok, maybe not 70, but people were bandying about 60!)
and now the truth is revealed...
30/41 mpg. yes, significantly lower mileage than a Prius with less space, a higher price, and fuel $1/gal more expensive in most areas. "but, but, it's a vw! it's pretty!"
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/21/officially-official-epa-rates-2009-jetta-tdi-at-30-41mpg/
Couple of quick points to note,
the VW folks are talking about when they are harping on about MPG is the VW Polo NOT the Jetta you linked to.
The Jetta in your link is a lot bigger, in fact I'd say it has a lot more usable load space than the Pirus you compared it to.
Yes the Polo is smaller though but that's why in has only a 1.4l TDI instead of that Jettas 1.9l.
oster_oops:
DaveW, thanks for the input. i realize that the polo 1.4TDI bluemotion is the european mileage king that's often brought up. however, VW fanbois in the united states, with full awareness that the new 2.0TDI would be in the larger Jetta/Golf/Tiguan bodystyles, were STILL claiming that it may well get 60 mpg on the freeway.
finally, as always, european and US mpg figures are not directly comparable since, as per google:
finally, as always, european and US mpg figures are not directly comparable since, as per google:
google calculator said:
i started to do a few hypermilling techniques a few days ago.. so far i have picked up 1.3 mpg's as a result.
Edmunds.com Inside Line video comparing the 2005 VW Jetta TDI, 2008 Ford Focus, 2008 Smart fortwo, and 2008 Toyota Prius with an eye on fuel economy:
winner: Prius (imo)
overall price per mile and mpg in their test:
winner: Prius (imo)
overall price per mile and mpg in their test:
how the ?$@#$ can they say "there's no one overall winner" when the Prius cleaned up by the numbers and is more practical to boot? idiots.
I'm quite surprised that something as tiny as the Smart with uber low weight and a tiny motor has such (relatively) poor mileage? 
*edit* I couldn't also help but note that the VW was 3 years old and the others were all brand new..............
*edit* I couldn't also help but note that the VW was 3 years old and the others were all brand new..............
I think that's b/c volkswagon stopped selling the diesel in the US. Not sure why-emissions?? I also think they are bring a cleaner diesel back- wonder if it will get the same miliage?I'm quite surprised that something as tiny as the Smart with uber low weight and a tiny motor has such (relatively) poor mileage?
*edit* I couldn't also help but note that the VW was 3 years old and the others were all brand new..............
emissions, yes; and look up at post #525 in this thread.
I have been following this thread, very interesting. Over a year ago I swapped from a 4X4 truck to a Toyota Yaris Hatchback. I run max sidewall pressure in the tires (44psi), run Mobile 1 Synthetic oil, shift at around 2000 RPM, drive the speed limit, and try to take advantage of DFCO by coasting up to stoplights in gear ect. I also invested in a scanguage ii which plugs into the ODB2 port and gives instant MPG, adverageMPG, Throttle position, Engine RMP (yaris has no tach), air temp ect. Anyway, my last tank of gas yeilded 44.6 MPG. and that is with hauling my 35lb bike on a hitch rack about every other day and a lot of city traffic (Louisville). I adverage around 41-42 MPG. My worst tank ever was 35mpg and that was with five people (yes they where cramped), and luggage for a week on a rear cargo carrier doing 80 with the AC on max all the way to Florida for vacation. The new 08 EPA estimates the Yaris at 29city 35hwy. You would have to drive like an idiot and punch a hole in the gas tank to get 29MPG in a yaris. I guess i am saying that the EPA MPG should not be taken as 100% truth and with a little better driving practices we should all be able to save some gas.
A really nice car with great mileage and good luggage space was the Audi A2 which came with the 3L diesel like the WV Lupo. The car looks nice too I think. It would be a perfect car for me at the moment but Audi for some reason stopped production. Strange how it looks like they had high mileage cars with the A2 and Lupo and now they are gone when they are needed the most:
3 L: 14.9 s, 168 km/h, 102 mph, 3.6 L/100 km (65 mpg–U.S. / 78 mpg–imp)
3 L: 14.9 s, 168 km/h, 102 mph, 3.6 L/100 km (65 mpg–U.S. / 78 mpg–imp)
Booker: props for the excellent mileage you're seeing. those same techniques are applicable to any car, however! until proven otherwise by large samples of verifiable data my position is that VW TDI fanbois are just that.
CBJ: i'm no so sold on the "looking nice" part. and if economy and thrift are the concern, why turn to the VW auto group of all places? strong Euro + import costs + inherent markup due to their attempt at preserving (an undeserved) "premium brand image" = expensive.
CBJ: i'm no so sold on the "looking nice" part. and if economy and thrift are the concern, why turn to the VW auto group of all places? strong Euro + import costs + inherent markup due to their attempt at preserving (an undeserved) "premium brand image" = expensive.
So last night I watched a documentary called "Contested Streets" and they showed what city planners did in Copenhagen. They redesigned the city around people rather than cars and over the past 20 years have gotten more than 30% of the people there to ride bikes everywhere.
It was an interesting contrast vs. New York that has focused on car traffic that has caused more issues than it's solved. It was an interesting perspective between European planning and the US.
It was an interesting contrast vs. New York that has focused on car traffic that has caused more issues than it's solved. It was an interesting perspective between European planning and the US.
Well I like me stuff to look nice and a lot of people do. I see no problem combining great looks with a high mileage car.
I would love if the US could produce some great cars but they keep disappointing me. All the innovation keeps coming out of Japan and Europe.
The next president should focus on make high mileage car technology like JFK focused on getting man on the moon.
I would love if the US could produce some great cars but they keep disappointing me. All the innovation keeps coming out of Japan and Europe.
The next president should focus on make high mileage car technology like JFK focused on getting man on the moon.
I live there for three years before I moved to NYC and I rode my bike to work. The dedicated bike lanes raised above the level of the road works great and are safe well except for bikes hitting other bikes.
Portland has started to revamp our already superior bike lane configuration. Portland was just given the first Platinum-level Bicycle Friendly Community award by the League of American Bicyclists. But our setup isn't HALF as nice as that.
What sucks is they said they started over 20 years ago to get where they are. I don't think NYC has 20 years to wait. Cities like Los Angeles has no chance in hell because of the amount of spread.
NYC could do many great things to improve biking but despite some attempts I find it a very bike unfriendly city. Plus drivers needs to be educated better and be careful around bikes.
Cyclone out in Taiwan makes electric bike kits, and sells LiFePO4 batteries. chinese (speaking generally to include TW) companies like to make derivative products. add Cyclone + Smart car influence and you get an electric car...
i'm not sure why they have both SLA and LiFePO4. my pet theory is that they're using the lithium for its high discharge rate, so that it can act as a buffer (a battery capacitor, if you will) for the SLAs, thereby shielding the SLAs from the Peukert effect.Cyclone-TW eCar. http://www.cyclone-tw.com/ecar.htm
can't find a price for the life of me. 2 person capacity (200 kg total), 998 kg net weight, max speed of 80 km/h, range 150 km. can climb a 30% grade while loaded. 8.5 kW AC motor running at 120V, with two parallel battery systems: 120Ah of SLA and 20Ah of LiFePO4. 6-8 hours to charge.
wow RX8's must be really lightit's gone.
i almost shed a tear, but didn't since i'm still chock-full of testosterone even without a car.
kinda surprised me that it was omitted... i work with a gay roadie fag that drives a Scion xB.. he has it decked out with a roof rack etc..
I drove damn near everything on that list and none compared to the Fit IMO.
The Scion xD was a semi-distant second, but the ergonomics in the Scion's are ridiculous. Having a gauge cluster in the middle of the dash makes NO sense to me.
Zipcar is working out pretty well so far: a refund check for the unused portion of my annually-paid auto insurance is in the mail, and it will handily cover the costs of minivan rental-via-Zipcar (Zipcarage?) for my cross-town move four times over.
on the topic of minivans, they're huge. seriously. i would NOT want to daily drive something that big, whether SUV, minivan, or freakishly long/tall wagon. the rear wheels feel so far away... on the other hand the turning circle isn't half bad and the Toyota Sienna in question swallowed a (memory foam so a bit foldable) queen size mattress among other sundry items without breaking a sweat.
more and more i'm thinking that owning the smallest possible personal conveyance is the answer for those not strictly urban and carless, with larger options up the food chain available through Zipcar type programs. (they have pickup trucks, too!)
for jimmydean and his WVO collective:
NYTimes: As Oil Prices Soar, Restaurant Grease Thefts Rise
on the topic of minivans, they're huge. seriously. i would NOT want to daily drive something that big, whether SUV, minivan, or freakishly long/tall wagon. the rear wheels feel so far away... on the other hand the turning circle isn't half bad and the Toyota Sienna in question swallowed a (memory foam so a bit foldable) queen size mattress among other sundry items without breaking a sweat.
more and more i'm thinking that owning the smallest possible personal conveyance is the answer for those not strictly urban and carless, with larger options up the food chain available through Zipcar type programs. (they have pickup trucks, too!)
for jimmydean and his WVO collective:
NYTimes: As Oil Prices Soar, Restaurant Grease Thefts Rise
nytimes said:
I just saw 2 of these in Port Jefferson last weekend. Pretty slick in person.
http://www.t-rexvehicles.com/
http://www.t-rexvehicles.com/
A friend of mine who works in bio-diesel production says that 'fry grease stealing' is a huge problem. His company is working on tamper-proof barrels for business to use.
On a completely un-related note I had a meeting with a head of Velo-way (part of Veolia), and some transportation officials this past tuesday about bike share system. The systems are there. Cool parking systems, good infostructure, and nice bikes (that's sorrta a self serving statement though). As always the two biggest things needed are city-bike systems, and well money. It's not un-common for a single bike to cost $3000 to operate per year. This includes marketing cost, labor, parking, etc...etc... While it may seem expensive, it pales in comparison to what a bus line cost. At the very least I will have some cool travel coming up. If our proposal is accepted I'll be sent to London and Paris to see current large scale programs already in place.
On a completely un-related note I had a meeting with a head of Velo-way (part of Veolia), and some transportation officials this past tuesday about bike share system. The systems are there. Cool parking systems, good infostructure, and nice bikes (that's sorrta a self serving statement though). As always the two biggest things needed are city-bike systems, and well money. It's not un-common for a single bike to cost $3000 to operate per year. This includes marketing cost, labor, parking, etc...etc... While it may seem expensive, it pales in comparison to what a bus line cost. At the very least I will have some cool travel coming up. If our proposal is accepted I'll be sent to London and Paris to see current large scale programs already in place.