[SkullCrack]

Yes, so sorry, this topic again.

I'm 5'10.5" (179 cm) with a 33.125" (84 cm) inseam. I find myself right in between a M and L on most manufacturers sizing suggestions.

I currently ride a M Turner DW-DHR. Prior to this I had a M M6 and a M IH Sunday. I don't have reach measurements for the M6 or Sunday so I can't make a numerical comparison, but the DHR is feeling a little small to me. I'm finding it difficult to find the "sweet spot" where I don't feel too far over the front or hanging off the back.

I tried a large DHR and it felt huge and hard to maneuver. I don't know if I should attribute this to spending so much time on smaller bikes, and perhaps it is something I could get used to. I've also experimented with bar height quite a bit, and while raising the bars up has helped, it hasn't really solved my issue.

I've been looking at some possibilities for my next frame. In the picture are the V10c, Knolly Podium, Transition TR450, and Demo. All have longer reach measurements than the DHR (15.4"), with quite a bit of variation.
•The V10 is barely longer, 15.8" in the 10" mode and 15.4" in the 8.5" mode.
•The Podium's reach is 15.95", but that is the old version. The new made-in-Taiwan (NTTAWRT) version is probably still a few months out and I haven't seen the specs.
•The TR450 is at 15.66"
•The Demo is 16.9".

I'd be interested in hearing from others who may have found themselves in a similar situation. Am I looking for something that doesn't exist (i.e. being able to feel centered and stable without riding a bike with a huge wheelbase)?

 

[jnooth]

It sounds like you and I are in size. I think i probably am an inch taller. I grew up riding BMX so i was used to the feel of a smaller bike. Often times larges fit me better but I feel uncomfortable riding them. I have always stayed with a medium and I feel like that is the best fit for me. that being said I do ride a demo and it looks like by the numbers you provided that it is a fair it longer than the rest. I would compare those numbers to the large partners. It sounds like the demo fits like a medium and a half and maybe thats what you need.

 

[EVIL JN]

Dont forget you can fine tune the reach with slightly longer/wider bars. I am pretty much spot on 6ft (183)cm and i was riding a m demo 8 and then went with a xl v10carbon but with a 20mm shorter stem and 20mm wider bars and the cockpit feels about the same. It really is good to do some number crouching before deciding as you have done.

 

[go-ride.com]

We usually don't start recommending a large DH bike until a rider is 6', but of course that is just a starting point.

 

[ruralrider]

I am a right around your size, I have found that medium frames with a reach of 596.9mm and wide bars (30 inches) fit me very well. Not too small or big, just the right size.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

when in doubt, go small

 

[NateH]

You should look into some of the companies whose L's run really small. For example Commencal and Morewood both offer Larges that are more like an M/L. Just an idea...

 

[iRider]

•The Demo is 16.9".

Are you sure this is the M? Sounds pretty long to me.

I'd be interested in hearing from others who may have found themselves in a similar situation. Am I looking for something that doesn't exist (i.e. being able to feel centered and stable without riding a bike with a huge wheelbase)?

I like longer TTs on my bikes although I am close to the same height as you. Maybe this is why I like Intense so much, because the reach on their medium frames seems to be longer than on most others. The medium M9 has 16.25 and feels perfect.

Edit: FWIW: most WC racers go up one size on their frames. Longer WB, more stable in the rough.

 

[Nick]

Let me know when you decide to sell your medium DHR.

 

[Bikael Molton]

I'm 6' w/ 33.3" inseam riding a medium TR450 with an e.13 direct mount in the long position. (Side rant: I really wish there were more direct mount stems available in longer than 50mm reaches.)

Bike rides great. I haven't experience any knee-handlebar interaction or other frame-size-too-small problems.

I tend to ride too far over the rear wheel by nature (learned on a hardtail), so the M frame forces my weight slightly forward which helps my cornering technique.

I mostly ride on the East Coast. If I lived at Whistler or the PNW going Mach 2 on groomed trails all summer, the longer bike could be nice.

 

[chup29]

I'm pretty much the same size as you, 5'10, even have had similar old dh bikes haha. I met the kid who bought my medium IH sunday from the kid i sold it too and recently got to reride that bike and im glad i went in the direction i did. Basically i have football shoulders so wide bars are a neccessity and when i got my large m9, it felt absolutely perfect and im never going back. I run a large m9 with the seat in the middle ish of the ibeam, short cranks, a 45mm dm stem and wide bars and its awesome, but it depends on the stuff you ride. For me, my stock standard dh run back home will hit 35-45mph and the trails i ride here in colorado are steep and fast too, so a bigger bike is needed, if i rode the trails in california that i rode in high school, i would want a smaller sized bike to be more nimble but thats the only way youd get me off a large, build more muscle and throw that big bike around - itll pay off more in the end

 

[norbar]

when in doubt, go small

I'd say the other way around. With a too large frame you can counter it with a shorter stem, with a too short frame it's a problem.


I'm exactly the same height and I have always ridden longer frames. Now I'm on a medium legend and it felt very short in the cockpit. I avoided the long since a few people claimed it is looooong. Still every problem can be solved. Went with a longer stem (45mm to a 50 or 55mm) and a higher raise bar (previous was flat) and now I feel much more comfortable.

Imho if you are in between sizes you can always counter it with different bar/stem combos but it's usually easier with a too long frame since going from a 50mm stem to a 28mm straitline (not sure who else makes such short stems) it just like going down a size.

 

[Bikael Molton]

^ Doesn't a higher rise bar make the cockpit reach shorter?

 

[norbar]

^ Doesn't a higher rise bar make the cockpit reach shorter?

Why? You are further away from other contact points = the cockpit feels longer. You are also less hunched on a taller bar.

 

[nowlan]

Im 6 2 and ride a Med M6. I rode a Med DHR and a Med Socom as well. I have never once thought, "I should be on a bigger bike." Intense and Turner do make Larger frames though from what I understand.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Why? You are further away from other contact points = the cockpit feels longer. You are also less hunched on a taller bar.

Because the grips are closer (horizontally / front-to-back) to the BB.

The stack (height) may be taller, but the effective length of the cockpit will be shorter... unless you are ignoring the sweep of the handlebars and running them pivoted straight up... ?

 

[boomerbaird]

thomson layback post or drop thousands.... Hmmmmm

 

[gemini2k]

when in doubt, go small

False. Go bigger, more stability.

 

[Udi]

I'm in the same boat as you - 5'11.

The trick is to first pick a frame (as close as you can get to what you want) and then make it work for you. At this height, I think having a 1.5" straight headtube is important as it leaves a lot of doors open now and in the future for adjustability.

I'm on a Sunday which I think is a healthily-sized medium (longer hand to foot distance than a lot of other medium frames) - and after coming off that I think it'd make sense you thought the medium dw DHR was a little small - because it has longer chainstays and a slacker head angle, which will have a tendency to shorten the downtube (thus hand-foot distance) and reach for a given frame size.

I've also ridden the large dw DHR and felt it was a little too long in tighter sections, the same as you by the sounds. Good on the open stuff, but hard to get around any tight corners.

Anyway, I'd lean towards buying a medium and stretching it out a bit in the dimensions that suit you best - personally I found wider bars helped a lot with stretching me out (currently on 790), as did a slacker head angle (via both angled cups and taller fork) to not only slacken, but more importantly to pull the wheelbase out longer. To give you an idea my wheelbase is now 46.3" or so which is longer than the stock L bike even though it's an M. Greater reach and a longer wheelbase are the only noteworthy changes in most DH frames as they go up in sizes, so those are the two things you need to achieve - in a shorter jump than what is available off the shelf.

The other thing that might become more popular in the future is offset headset cups - I know a few people have made these up and I think they'd be the perfect tool for people of this height. Basically just cups that position the steerer tube further forward (or backward), and could be made in combination with moderate slackening, or without. That's one reason I'd stick with the 1.5" headtube.

 

[saruti]

go bigger with a headset that shorten the cockpit
like what I did.

 

[SkullCrack]

Are you sure this is the M? Sounds pretty long to me.

Yep, just checked the Specialized geometry charts again. I was surprised too.

I like longer TTs on my bikes although I am close to the same height as you. Maybe this is why I like Intense so much, because the reach on their medium frames seems to be longer than on most others. The medium M9 has 16.25 and feels perfect.

Edit: FWIW: most WC racers go up one size on their frames. Longer WB, more stable in the rough.

My M6 felt pretty good to me. Intense lists the TT as 22.5", but with the interrupted seat tube, that measurement is kinda meaningless. The M9 does seem to run bigger than most I've looked at. As you mention, the reach on the medium is 16.25", which is close to most brand's large, and the wheelbase of the medium is about the same as the large V10c. Maybe because SC also makes an XL V10?

I'm pretty much the same size as you, 5'10, even have had similar old dh bikes haha. I met the kid who bought my medium IH sunday from the kid i sold it too and recently got to reride that bike and im glad i went in the direction i did. Basically i have football shoulders so wide bars are a neccessity and when i got my large m9, it felt absolutely perfect and im never going back. I run a large m9 with the seat in the middle ish of the ibeam, short cranks, a 45mm dm stem and wide bars and its awesome, but it depends on the stuff you ride. For me, my stock standard dh run back home will hit 35-45mph and the trails i ride here in colorado are steep and fast too, so a bigger bike is needed, if i rode the trails in california that i rode in high school, i would want a smaller sized bike to be more nimble but thats the only way youd get me off a large, build more muscle and throw that big bike around - itll pay off more in the end

Wow, medium Sunday to a large M9. That's a big jump up in size. From a 45.25" wheelbase to around 48". That's cool it's working for you.

I've experimented with bar width, and right around 750mm is what works for me. I've got a 47mm stem at the moment.

I'm in the same boat as you - 5'11.

The trick is to first pick a frame (as close as you can get to what you want) and then make it work for you. At this height, I think having a 1.5" straight headtube is important as it leaves a lot of doors open now and in the future for adjustability.

I'm on a Sunday which I think is a healthily-sized medium (longer hand to foot distance than a lot of other medium frames) - and after coming off that I think it'd make sense you thought the medium dw DHR was a little small - because it has longer chainstays and a slacker head angle, which will have a tendency to shorten the downtube (thus hand-foot distance) and reach for a given frame size.

I've also ridden the large dw DHR and felt it was a little too long in tighter sections, the same as you by the sounds. Good on the open stuff, but hard to get around any tight corners.

Anyway, I'd lean towards buying a medium and stretching it out a bit in the dimensions that suit you best - personally I found wider bars helped a lot with stretching me out (currently on 790), as did a slacker head angle (via both angled cups and taller fork) to not only slacken, but more importantly to pull the wheelbase out longer. To give you an idea my wheelbase is now 46.3" or so which is longer than the stock L bike even though it's an M. Greater reach and a longer wheelbase are the only noteworthy changes in most DH frames as they go up in sizes, so those are the two things you need to achieve - in a shorter jump than what is available off the shelf.

The other thing that might become more popular in the future is offset headset cups - I know a few people have made these up and I think they'd be the perfect tool for people of this height. Basically just cups that position the steerer tube further forward (or backward), and could be made in combination with moderate slackening, or without. That's one reason I'd stick with the 1.5" headtube.

Thanks for the insights. I really liked the feel of my Sunday, fit-wise. Have you measured the reach on yours?

I don't know if I want to slacken the DHR, as the current 63° is about as slack as I'd like to go. I do find it interesting that even with a wheelbase approaching 47" I don't feel as centered on the bike as I did with the Sunday at 45.25".

I'm not sure if it was the reach or the wheelbase of the large dw DHR that made it feel so big.

 

[Udi]

The reason the DHR feels smaller even though it has a longer wheelbase is because the slacker head angle results in the top of the headtube (and thus bars, etc) sitting further back. The slacker angle makes the wheelbase number longer but you don't get the correlating extension in reach like you would if you extended the wheelbase without slackening the HA. Also because the chainstays are longer on the DHR, less of the wheelbase is aiding in stretching out your body. Hopefully that makes sense, understanding those little nuances will help you figure out what to do.

I haven't measured the reach on mine. I felt it was both the reach and the wheelbase that made the large DHR feel big, but probably moreso the wheelbase that hindered it around tight corners (and perhaps also the slightly longer chainstays than the Sunday, but I imagine it was primarily the WB).

I'm not sure if you know any machinists, but a headset cup that extends the wheelbase (without slackening) might be a viable solution for you unless you want a new bike for some other reason. I believe the user 'saruti' has done this and he has the same bike as you (has a small and wanted it a little longer).

 

[saruti]

I wanted to shrten the M size DHR
made this for it

 

[saruti]

you need to install it the same up and down the headtube.
it shorten the cockpit by almost half an inch

 

[saruti]

 

[SkullCrack]

I'm not sure if you know any machinists, but a headset cup that extends the wheelbase (without slackening) might be a viable solution for you unless you want a new bike for some other reason. I believe the user 'saruti' has done this and he has the same bike as you (has a small and wanted it a little longer).

I wanted to shrten the M size DHR
made this for it

View attachment 110784

That's an interesting idea. I think I remember Santa Cruz doing something similar for Steve Peat back when he joined the Syndicate.

I wonder if this could be achieved with two of the 1.5° Angleset cups installed in the same orientation? The thought of going back to a noisy Angleset puts me off that idea a bit. Maybe this is something the guys at Works Components in the UK would be interested in taking on?

 

[Wa-Aw]

I wonder if this could be achieved with two of the 1.5° Angleset cups installed in the same orientation? The thought of going back to a noisy Angleset puts me off that idea a bit. Maybe this is something the guys at Works Components in the UK would be interested in taking on?

I might give this a shot in the future. I want to get a larger frame, too (in between sizes). But I'm not sure how I'll handle it. Offset headset might be a good means to get an in-between sized frame!

 

[W4S]

you need to install it the same up and down the headtube.
it shorten the cockpit by almost half an inch

View attachment 110785

I have a M dw DHR and I'm 5'6", been running an older e13 45mm direct mount stem and am close to purchasing a Straitline direct mount at 28mm to see if that helps. I don't have access to a machine shop so making one of these isn't really an option, but very cool idea!

I've always ridden Small bikes but have been going to Mediums for the last couple bikes and I really like the longer TT and wheelbases, for the most part.

 

[jackalope]

I'm 5'11" and ride a medium Tr450 (middle geo setting) and don't feel cramped. The bike definitely feels more roomy than my old medium V10, and with most modern DH geo (i.e. slack HA) I really wouldn't want anything with a longer wheelbase. East Koast Rox for me tho, and the only time this bike hits +35 mph is on the back of my car.

 

[OGRipper]

A medium v10c should be just about perfect. That said, I would not let size drive your decision as much as seems to be the case. It's obviously important to get the right size, but chances are good you will quickly get comfortable on whatever you buy as long as it's in the ballpark. You are looking at a bunch of different bikes that behave very differently, and the one that fits better by 2mm or whatever may not be the one that has the suspension characteristics you want. Just sayin.