Spy shots: 2009 Spesh Trail SX and... Big Hit Proto???
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
????? said:
Yeh, totally. All the people with dead ipod batteries and cracked screens are loving their fashionable looking ipods and not wishing they had spent a bit more money on good engineering..........IE: Apple Computer products
I'm personally diggin it and shopping for a new frame sometime in the near future.....
my '06 sxt is on her 3rd season... I love that bike!
I'd be interested to know that rear shock size, it does look smaller then the current 9x2.75 being used..... I hope they maintain the same lowish leverage on the new design....
I'd also really like to know the geo..... that looks to be a size small frame, I'd like to see a medium as well...
fingers crossed the final production comes out dope!
my '06 sxt is on her 3rd season... I love that bike!
I'd be interested to know that rear shock size, it does look smaller then the current 9x2.75 being used..... I hope they maintain the same lowish leverage on the new design....
I'd also really like to know the geo..... that looks to be a size small frame, I'd like to see a medium as well...
fingers crossed the final production comes out dope!
Being a design engineer in the sporting good industry,.,.,.,., you would like to think its all about the function. Most of the time it is about form. If it doesn’t look good, it will not sell. Its all about the Benjamin’s in this industry.
Let’s look at cars for example.
Not looking up number or anything like that just 2 things that I think are relatively in the same league.....
Pontiac Aztec
Honda crv
Lets say they both perform the same, same cost, same everything but exterior styling. What one are you going to buy? If you are an Aztec driver, you are awarded no points, and god have mercy on your soul.
iPods sold because of the form, packaging, and the experience of the product.
The modern consumer, they are like cows, you can herd them really easily with flashy form. They could give a crap less on how something functions.
Being an engineer, we think differently. We could give a hoot about form, as long as it works. 99% of the world thinks we are nuts, but we think they are nuts
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Alot of the cycling consumers do like both, i know i get suckered to something that looks cool, but if it dosent perform the way i want it too, i wont ride it :coughvppcough:
Let’s look at cars for example.
Not looking up number or anything like that just 2 things that I think are relatively in the same league.....
Pontiac Aztec
Honda crv
Lets say they both perform the same, same cost, same everything but exterior styling. What one are you going to buy? If you are an Aztec driver, you are awarded no points, and god have mercy on your soul.
iPods sold because of the form, packaging, and the experience of the product.
The modern consumer, they are like cows, you can herd them really easily with flashy form. They could give a crap less on how something functions.
Being an engineer, we think differently. We could give a hoot about form, as long as it works. 99% of the world thinks we are nuts, but we think they are nuts
edit:
Alot of the cycling consumers do like both, i know i get suckered to something that looks cool, but if it dosent perform the way i want it too, i wont ride it :coughvppcough:
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The thing is, for all their superfluous curves, Specialized's frames are still some of the lightest out there.
Here's a novel concept:
Design and function are equally important. (!)
Agree with other posters that I like the Demo-inspired designs...I thought the Demo 7 was fugly at first but I own one now and love the looks. These should be great as well.
p.s. think of it in advertising terms:
-if you have an amazing, funny, eye-catching ad, but no offer...you're fuct.
-if you have an incredible offer, but your creative sucks so bad no one will give it the time to read it, you're equally fuct.
Design and function are equally important. (!)
Agree with other posters that I like the Demo-inspired designs...I thought the Demo 7 was fugly at first but I own one now and love the looks. These should be great as well.
p.s. think of it in advertising terms:
-if you have an amazing, funny, eye-catching ad, but no offer...you're fuct.
-if you have an incredible offer, but your creative sucks so bad no one will give it the time to read it, you're equally fuct.
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WTF is that just because y'all haven't seen the FEA doesn't mean they're not doing it. Structures got a lot more complicated when suspension entered the mix, and just because you can't visualize how stresses flow through the frames I wouldn't assume that specialized enginerds can't either.
I would speculate that if anyone was tearing their hair out about these, it's the design team who has to come up with a paint job to make it look good, but I would also speculate that these frames are some combination of lighter and stronger than the '08s.
hee hee
i dont undrestand the hate for the big S .they have an amazing lineup ! u name one more company that has top class bikes in every catagory (dh,xc,road,freeride,allmountain ...) and top of the line components for almost every bike catagory (shoes,clothes,tires,pumps,helmets.......). the stuff that comes out of this company for almost every year is (imho) just amazing !
oh ,and saying bent & manipulated tubes are form over function and more heavy is just plain ridiculous !!!
oh ,and saying bent & manipulated tubes are form over function and more heavy is just plain ridiculous !!!
An 8" travel version of the newer Enduro or Pitch would have looked awesome - this is about as attractive as a Demo. And that ain't a good thing. In fact the orange one looks a hell of a lot like that Rocky M THING - one of the ugliest bikes ever designed.
It'll be bought by 3 types of rider
1. Those who don't notice how a bike looks - they just want a great ride.
2. Spesh lovers - there's a lot out there
3. The blind
G
It'll be bought by 3 types of rider
1. Those who don't notice how a bike looks - they just want a great ride.
2. Spesh lovers - there's a lot out there
3. The blind
G
Bent tubes are actually less prone to flex becaused they are pre-stressed,But damm those bikes make my Flatline look beautiful.
Well said!
Couldn't have said it better myself.
(BTW - can I call you the "Riddler" from now on...? :biggrin: )
Because they're sooo good at that too. Have you seen some of the paint jobs they've put out recently?
Eye catching - sure. Good? Debatable.
Okay "less bad."
I don't like the design of the Demo 7 that much, but damn that purple 08 frame is the dobermanns undercarriage.
You do realize that you can get another rechargeable battery for your ipod for about $20.Yeh, totally. All the people with dead ipod batteries and cracked screens are loving their fashionable looking ipods and not wishing they had spent a bit more money on good engineering..........
Just as an ipod is a music player, a toaster toasts bread, and a remote control changes channels, a bike goes up and down hills on the trails... they all perform a function and successful design is the only reason that you specifically pointed out the ipod instead of just referencing a music player.
marketing bull-crap is just another constraint that good engineers have to deal with. it's the same as designing something to withstand 8G's at -120degreesC. just one more constraint. if you're an engineer and you don't like dealing with marketing types, work in the aerospace industry.
Nah - don't worry about all us sad internet enginerd. The form/function discussion is entirely pedantic and purist (and probably purile).
If you like the look, go for it. The frame may be fractionally less stiff than it could be, but unless you're going to plaster it with strain gauges and carry monitoring equipent when you ride, you'll NEVER notice.
Bent top tubes generally make little difference in practice - the seat sticks out over the top and negates most of the advantage of bending the TT - the front bit is still as high as it ever was.
I've never seen the benefit of going below the line between the head tube junctionand the rear axle myself. Gives clean lines . . . .
and people think Rotecs bent top tubes are gnarly-swoopy...
as for the clearance, well i've never ridden another bike that has a top tube even close to as low as mine, but i have ridden bikes with straight yet slack TT's and mine feels sooo much roomier than those... my seat has never been in the way either...
and my corners and tables are much flatter:biggrin: even though theyre still far from flat
i wonder how the super high shock/linkage feels with the CG on the big-hit... the shock actuation curve and the whole suspension in general also seems like its gonna be doing some weird movements through the travel too...
as for the clearance, well i've never ridden another bike that has a top tube even close to as low as mine, but i have ridden bikes with straight yet slack TT's and mine feels sooo much roomier than those... my seat has never been in the way either...
and my corners and tables are much flatter:biggrin: even though theyre still far from flat
i wonder how the super high shock/linkage feels with the CG on the big-hit... the shock actuation curve and the whole suspension in general also seems like its gonna be doing some weird movements through the travel too...
Very true, My original point (and some others I would guess) is that the frame is ugly as sin.... and what was done to make it ugly is exactly opposite of cutting edge engineering.
I would be fine if they had either
1 thrown ID to the wind and built a 'pure' function over fashion frame'
or
2 made some comprimises to make it look good
Instead, comprimises were made WRT engineering that make these (and many current S bike) less of what 'pure engineering' could produce, yet one of the ugliest bikes available (aside form SC possibly).
thanks for adding another thread that only links to another site
its a good thing, since no one on here ever checks sicklines
its a good thing, since no one on here ever checks sicklines
The Lisa?IE: Apple Computer products
Oooh, there's a good poop joke in there (or two).
But threads like these make you wonder how any manu can ignore the focus groups and make form follow function, when 78% of the responses to this thread only mention how ugly those bikes are.
I don't think my '06 sx w/ pierced st is overly attractive, but then I just ride it, I didn't buy it to show off how cool I am. Maybe I'm just getting old...
Actually they just make me wonder how so many princesses got involved in a sport where dirt and scars are such an integral component.
they won't be involved for long Woo.
I think that they are ugly but in a good way. I would rock these bikes.
All kids care about today is how stuff looks and how light is it. Function of the part hardly matters anymore. Soon enough all these kids will figure out what we all figured out years ago when we went through this the first time. Purple ano hotcolor parts and bikes that are so light that they break instantly just mean that we spend more of our paycheck on new parts sooner. Its stupid, but most people get fooled only once.
It's a good thing my new sx trail frame just arrived yesterday. Just in time for me to hang it on the wall and sit on the couch and stare at it. God forbid i scratch the paint or get it dirty!
i think people's expectations & awareness or product functionality & performance is higher than ever. back in the 90's when everyone was pumping out pretty colored cnc widgets with little or no engineering, we had lower expectations; we were (suprisingly) unsurprised when new bits failed or didn't work that well out of the box (lots of first hand experiences myself). these days (with the help of forums), stuff is scrutinized thoroughly; flawed design just doesn't fly (for long). i'm amazed at the level of performance stuff is at these days - as well as being strong, and lighter than ever. amazing, really. the fact that the market is so competitive means that not only does the product have to work well to be successful, it has to be light, AND look good. which leads us back to the new S bikes. the obvious point - if said bike doesn't offer a significant performance advantage over competing bikes, doesn't have a price point advantage, and is aesthetically unappealing to 78% of the target market, it seems to follow that its a poor design (from a marketing standpoint). i would think the big S could do better. granted, maybe our brains will collectively evolve to love the new serpentine tube forms.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. The best designs are ones that create a love it/hate it emotion in the consumer. The squishy middle (the one everyone kinda says is "OK" but no one loves, and no one hates) is where companies FAIL. Specialized is a master of this marketing premise.
And oh my hell, the princesses! I just don't get it.
And oh my hell, the princesses! I just don't get it.
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But this speaks to my point. Spec bikes traditionally have lower BB (real life, not always the website), shorter chainstays and are among the stiffest and lightest in a given genre. Plus it's obvious they've gone out of their way to put the bulk of the frame mass down low. To ME those are some advantages.
Who gives a fvck what shape the downtube is as long as it holds the bike together?
oh yeah.........%78 of the people choosing bikes
alas, you are of the 'other' 22%. go forth, buy that groovy bike & be happy!But this speaks to my point. Spec bikes traditionally have lower BB (real life, not always the website), shorter chainstays and are among the stiffest and lightest in a given genre. Plus it's obvious they've gone out of their way to put the bulk of the frame mass down low. To ME those are some advantages.
Who gives a fvck what shape the downtube is as long as it holds the bike together?
oh yeah.........%78 of the people choosing bikes
Nah, I gotta see what the paint scheme is first.
I just bought a bunch of new socks and tld pants.
I just bought a bunch of new socks and tld pants.
Mitch Chubey's 2009 Spec P3
Sweet, they totally followed my paint suggestion, "dip the BB area in diarrhea over some sweet tribal graphics and an ironic retro custard color." It's a shame they didn't carry the scheme all the way through to the components, but syncros is only a little retro; not retro enough to get all stylie with the mudbutt colors.
