Speaking of horrible, horrible ideas...
- Thread starter MMike
- Start date
No guns on planes period. I don't like it. Keeping a loaded gun in the cockpit seems like an invitation to a potential hijacker - they won't have to sneak a gun on board, they'll just have gain access to it.
I just hope they have the wisdom to load the guns with plastic bullets.
I am opposed to wisdom;it takes the fun out of everything.
Great...now I really don't want to get on the plane next week. I'm already avoiding flying on the 11th.
No guns in the cockpit especially not after what the air marshals pulled the other week. BUT, security needs to get better. The searches are a joke. Unknowingly, since Sept 11, I've carried large needles (work related) that could inflict serious damage to a human onto a plane in my laptop case---no one stopped me. Others at my company have had the same experience. I've also carried on open electronic devices with wires sticking out all over, looks like a little bomb. No one has ever even asked me what it is---I'd be happy to explain and would probably feel more secure if they did stop me.
America west...here I come
...they did kick off a person who dared to ask the pilots if they were drinking though!
One of the local village mayors forgot he had his .40 cal handgun in his briefcase. Went right through the screening no problems. He sat down to eat his egg McMuffin and found his Smith and Wesson sitting in the briefcase. The screener was fired and the mayor lost his piece. To the mayor's credit, he did find a cop and informed him of the accident. But, who carries a handgun for self protection and just happens to forget where it is?
When I worked for the feds, one the agents left his pistol belt the crapper (public area). I'm sure this will be a succesful program...
When I worked for the feds, one the agents left his pistol belt the crapper (public area). I'm sure this will be a succesful program...
Nice original name, someone should beat the kids parents! If they named the kid this, he will get into trouble the rest of his life.
LAME
LAME
Ideas that would cost money:
1 separate air supple systems for the pilot and passanger area. That way you can flood the passanger area with gas (The Frengh GIGN has a gas that is oderless and can knockout the passagers of a 747 in 15 seconds.)
also have the passagenger area on hidden cameras with downlink to ground control so that they can intiated the system while also locking the pilots in the cabin
1 separate air supple systems for the pilot and passanger area. That way you can flood the passanger area with gas (The Frengh GIGN has a gas that is oderless and can knockout the passagers of a 747 in 15 seconds.)
also have the passagenger area on hidden cameras with downlink to ground control so that they can intiated the system while also locking the pilots in the cabin
So what if someone tries to hijack the plane? The pilot can splatter their brains against the wall. I guarantee a terrorist wouldn't be able to "gain access to" the gun. It'd be behind the locked cockpit door.
Honestly, why would anyone not want guns in the cockpit? The pilots can already crash the planes if they wanted to.
The fact that pilots have to even go through security pisses me off. Why confiscate their nail clippers when they're going to be in the cockpit with a crash axe in 10 minutes anyway?
And KFulch... the whole drunken pilot thing doesn't happen too often. And again... what would be the difference?
Are you aware of how thin the skin is on a 767? It's about .100" in most places. And you shoot a bullet though that, bad things would happen. Guns have no place on an airplane. ......or at least bullets don't.
So a guy tries to attack the pilot. He has a gun. Big deal. He can't shoot it. He'd be better of pistol whipping him.
And the whole "reinforcing the cockpit door issue" is nowhere near as simple as people seem to think it is. Decompression is not an instantaneous phenomenon. Air takes time to move from one place to another. Right now the door are designed to fly open in the event of decompression to allow the air in the flight deck to move freely.
Though it is unlikely, in THEORY, if there air occupying the flight deck where not allowed to escape during decompression because the door was barricaded shut, another area of the airplane could actually collapse and suck a whole bunch of people out of the airplane. People frown on that sort of thing.
So a guy tries to attack the pilot. He has a gun. Big deal. He can't shoot it. He'd be better of pistol whipping him.
And the whole "reinforcing the cockpit door issue" is nowhere near as simple as people seem to think it is. Decompression is not an instantaneous phenomenon. Air takes time to move from one place to another. Right now the door are designed to fly open in the event of decompression to allow the air in the flight deck to move freely.
Though it is unlikely, in THEORY, if there air occupying the flight deck where not allowed to escape during decompression because the door was barricaded shut, another area of the airplane could actually collapse and suck a whole bunch of people out of the airplane. People frown on that sort of thing.
I'm not questioning weather that is true or not , I'm just curious how keeping one section presurized would cause another to collapse ? Is it how the Ventalations system works/Routed throught out the plane ?
From what I understand, it is possible to make a bullet which will kill someone but not puncture the fuselage.
I'm aware of the whole door reinforcement. It won't save you from decompression. They are, however, going to have kevlar doors with 2000 pound locks. The whole reason to beef up the cockpit doors isn't because of decompression... they're just trying to make it inaccessible to people from the cabin. If the fuselage cracks or whatever... people aren't going to be having a fun time anyway. Either you'll get sucked out or have a windy ride to the airport.
I'm sorry, but I'm just extremely touchy on this subject. My dad is a pilot for United Airlines and I also knew one of the 9/11 pilots very well.
I'm aware of the whole door reinforcement. It won't save you from decompression. They are, however, going to have kevlar doors with 2000 pound locks. The whole reason to beef up the cockpit doors isn't because of decompression... they're just trying to make it inaccessible to people from the cabin. If the fuselage cracks or whatever... people aren't going to be having a fun time anyway. Either you'll get sucked out or have a windy ride to the airport.
I'm sorry, but I'm just extremely touchy on this subject. My dad is a pilot for United Airlines and I also knew one of the 9/11 pilots very well.
I am more concerned about a bullit cutting wires and destroying electronics should a gun disharge by accident or something... dunno. I dbn't think its a touchy subject, there is just no right answer to everything.
I know that most people aren't touchy about it, but I am... for reasons I've already stated.
Obviously. I am saying the opposite. The reason the doors are flimsy in the first place is BECAUSE of decompression. They WANT the door to fly open if the passenger cabin has a problem. That's how it was designed.
splat:
If you lose pressure in one spot in the plane, then air has to rush from another spot to fill the void. You want this to happen quickly. This is why they made the door to be able to fly open so that the air can move as quickly as possible so that the pressure thoughout the whole cabin is uniform.
But for those brief moments while the air is moving, from point A to point B, there are some undesirable stresses going on very locally, until the pressure equalizes.
They are very picky about decompression stuff. (I've told this story before), But American Airlines wanted to move some power pack boxes out from under the seats and move them to the side walls. The were only about 6"x6"x1". But we were limited were they could be on the sidewall due to decompression rules. The air had to be allowed to move freely behind the sidewall panels.
Again, the chances of an actual catastrophic failure of that nature occurring are pretty remote. But airplanes are pretty flimsy. So saying, "Oh we'll just turn the flight deck into a vault" is not really THAT simple. It's certainly do-able.....and obviously advisable!
But I still think that guns on board are a bad idea.
I agree.
The solution is not to put a gun on the plane, but to effectively PREVENT a gun from getting on a plane. Random baggage checks are silly. Check everyone, check completely.
The solution is not to put a gun on the plane, but to effectively PREVENT a gun from getting on a plane. Random baggage checks are silly. Check everyone, check completely.
Think guns on planes(with soft projectiles) should just be a stop gap measure until other system can be developed and installed.
Posible systems: Use voice/word recognition software to active a sytem that turn control of the plane over to the ground will incapasitating(SP) everyone on board. Using gas or by reducing the air supply. Plane can then be and boarded while everyone is incapasitated(SP).
Know this is not a full proof answer and the hijackers might not be knocked out in all case but it would allow the plane to kept at a high enuff alt that should it be blownup or worse come to worse it has to be shootdown. casualties on the ground would be reduced.
Remember thinks have changed: the people on the Plane are not the only ones in danger from hijackers.
Question: If you were on a hijacked plane would you just sit still and hope for the best (PRE 9-11 Tactic) or would you risk doing something.
Posible systems: Use voice/word recognition software to active a sytem that turn control of the plane over to the ground will incapasitating(SP) everyone on board. Using gas or by reducing the air supply. Plane can then be and boarded while everyone is incapasitated(SP).
Know this is not a full proof answer and the hijackers might not be knocked out in all case but it would allow the plane to kept at a high enuff alt that should it be blownup or worse come to worse it has to be shootdown. casualties on the ground would be reduced.
Remember thinks have changed: the people on the Plane are not the only ones in danger from hijackers.
Question: If you were on a hijacked plane would you just sit still and hope for the best (PRE 9-11 Tactic) or would you risk doing something.
While it might not look pretty would installing a locked gate between the Pilot and passanger areas. interfer with the flow of air through the plane? This along with putting Kalvar(SP) backing on the pilots chair would reduce the ability of terrorist to gain access to the flyt controls and would also protect the pilots from shooting.
I grew up with Mark Bingham and Todd Beamer.
I would do exactly the same thing they did.
I think pilots should be given Nerf Crotchbats
Originally developed in conjunction under supervision of Marine Special Forces Reconnaissance, these non-lethal devices are completely safe for use aboard a pressurized aircraft, yet extremely effective in debilitating an attacker.
AHAAHAAAHHHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAAAaaaaaa......
Originally posted by ohio
I think pilots should be given Nerf Crotchbats
Originally developed in conjunction under supervision of Marine Special Forces Reconnaissance, these non-lethal devices are completely safe for use aboard a pressurized aircraft, yet extremely effective in debilitating an attacker.
I think all passengers should be doped up to the eyeballs, packed flat and kept asleep for the entire journey - no more legroom issues and a comatose terrorist is unlikely to pull off a hijack.
For a slighty higher price (i.e. business/1st class) you could have the option of being dropped at home using some kind of smart parachute...
Which reminds me, why don't they have parachutes for every passenger?
For a slighty higher price (i.e. business/1st class) you could have the option of being dropped at home using some kind of smart parachute...
Which reminds me, why don't they have parachutes for every passenger?
Silly! That's what the seat cushions are for. You just have to make sure they're on the bottom so when you hit the ground you'll bounce.
Exactly, simple phsyics. The explanation MMike just gave also explains why there is no such thing as suction.
Ok, if teaching 85,000 pilots how to safely use a gun will cost $900 million +$250 mill a year, what do you suppose a voice activated, voice recongition, remote access control, with automatic tampon remover, gadget will cost?
No such thing on an airplane.
???? That is suction.
In a short answer yes (but there is no such thing as suction). Air pressure always wants to be equal in a given area. Therefore if there is low air pressure in one part of the plane, air from higher pressure parts of the plane will "flow" to the lower parts (as you described) to equalize the pressure all around.
Now take the airplane model and replace it with a vacuum. In essence on a vacuum all you are doing is lowering the air pressure inside the bag, so the higher pressure air along with the dirt (which is outside the bag) will get "sucked" into the vacuum bag to equalize the pressure. This is the same way a straw works...you lower the pressure inside so air/liquid gets "sucked" inside.
That's the easiest way to explain it, we had a big arguement in my advanced physics class about this...basically there is no such thing as suction because nothing is "sucking" on something else (if that makes any sense). It's the differences in pressure.
Oh ok. Sort of the same way asa there's no such thing as centrifugal force......
I think I'm just gonna drive everywhere from now on. 
Is the analogy you are looking for, "There is no such thing as vacuum, merely the absence of pressure?"