I can get them for good price, but I don't know if the power is sufficient for downhill racing. How is the modulation and power compared to Saint?
Shimano XTR Disc Brakes M975 good for DH?
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The power is fine but they're IS mount so you'll have to find some odd adapters. Can't really say how they compare to the new 4pot saints because I've only ridden them once on a bike I didn't setup. But they're no less 'powerful' than any other dual piston shimano....which are all plenty sufficient.
There is PM and IS mount calipers in the 970 range.
I like them on my XC bike but would question DH use.
Why?
They're the same system just in a lighter metal.
I used the last gen on my dirtjump bike for years.
Heat dissipation would be the only thing that might be different......and that's just a guess.
Good to know you can get them in post mount.
Yeah my feeling is the amount of fluid they carry is tiny compared to the XT lever and caliper, I would be concerned about over heating.
Hmm.
I didn't know that. So they're actually NOT the same system entirely. I've had the old xtrs only. I haven't owned any of the newer levers.
But that said, if it's only the lever reservoir, then going with xtr calipers and some other shimano lever should work fine.
The caliper itself is also a littel more felxible, so, you wont get the same power transfer to the rotor as you would with the xts. As for compared to the new 4 piston saint, completely different brake. the saint blow them out of the water for DH. In my opinion....not worth it
I have XTs on my DH bike and XTRs on my AMish XC bike (not Amish). The XTs work well enough but I can imagine having more power. They handle heat okay but I've felt them get a little mushy on some very steep, long runs. On long descents I've overheated the XTRs to the point of getting VERY mushy (right lever to the bar). I'm considering replacing both with Formula The Ones and R1s for more consistent feel and better heat resistance.
P.S. I've bled both many times and the reservoirs appear identical.
P.S. I've bled both many times and the reservoirs appear identical.
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You guys brake too much 
Why do people want to put cross country XTR stuff on dh bikes, XTR is not designed for dh they are designed for cross country. NeXt people will complain about that over rated XTR stuff breaking.
A real good friend of mine was riding the XTR's for the 08 season and went to XT's this season because the XTR's would lose power and pull to the bar while riding DH runs anything over about 1000' vert (meaning they worked fine during the winter months when the higher trails were snowed in). He's a real good rider that I doubt brakes much, and he has been happy as could be with the XT's, but couldn't make the XTRs work for him.
If you don't have a hookup, Chain Reaction has XT brakes for cheap right now.
I went with Saints this year mostly because it was easier filling out one form than two, but I sure am glad I did. I'm heavier than most and I'm not sure everyone needs the stopping power, but I think it helped me out a lot. It took me a couple weekends of riding to get used to the power (I was running Hope Mono4's), but it sure is confidence inspiring once you do. One more thing: There is one trail I ride a few times every summer that finishes with a realll long, straightish rock section that requires constant braking that always leaves me coming in wayyy to hot into the catcher corner. My brakes would always **** 3/4 the way through (Hayes, older Saints, Hopes) meaning I was in it to win it (or explode). My new Saints didn't noticeably heat up in any way - at all...period. It was really impressive. I'm sold!
If you don't have a hookup, Chain Reaction has XT brakes for cheap right now.
I went with Saints this year mostly because it was easier filling out one form than two, but I sure am glad I did. I'm heavier than most and I'm not sure everyone needs the stopping power, but I think it helped me out a lot. It took me a couple weekends of riding to get used to the power (I was running Hope Mono4's), but it sure is confidence inspiring once you do. One more thing: There is one trail I ride a few times every summer that finishes with a realll long, straightish rock section that requires constant braking that always leaves me coming in wayyy to hot into the catcher corner. My brakes would always **** 3/4 the way through (Hayes, older Saints, Hopes) meaning I was in it to win it (or explode). My new Saints didn't noticeably heat up in any way - at all...period. It was really impressive. I'm sold!
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I'm really conscious of how much I'm on the brakes and stay off'em more than most. It was a secret trail in North Van that got my XTs all hot and bothered. Just straight down, techy, butt on the tire, for maybe 2000ft!You guys brake too much
It was the Wheeler Trail descent on the south side of Peak 10 in Breckenridge that smoked my XTRs to the point that I had to pull over and let'em cool. Really fast, but steep enough that you have to drag the brakes to stay on the trail and no let-up for like 2 miles.
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That kind of garbage makes any brake stink though.
I'll admit. That kind of trail annoys the hell out of me and I really do everything I can to avoid them. Bikes are for using momentum in wonderful ways.......not for restraining IMO. Steep sustained (like the whole trail sustained) fall line brake dragging stuff just isn't my thing. And there's a LOT of that stuff in the PNW......if I lived there, maybe I'd be singing a different tune.
That said, I've ridden plenty of steep gnarly xc trails with stupid, loose, fall line, elevation wasting BS, where I was on the brakes HARD for a few thousand of elevation and I've never had a problem with the xtrs I owned and used for like 4 years. Just because it's on a dh bike, doesn't mean it gets any more heavy dragging. xc weenies drag their brakes all the time. I've been terrified, squeezing the hell out of the brakes on my xc bike, arguably way worse than on a more capable dh bike that's easier to control. Again though...that's the old kind of gun metal colored ones..... But it seems like if overheating were an easy thing to do, I've been in enough situations that it should have happened.
The new style saints that actually ARE a different design are another issue of course because you can't argue the greater volume is tougher to heat up. But then again I've never felt the need to change any of my XT, XTR, (old) saint, or LX hydros out because they've ever faded or lost power or anything.
Just speaking for myself, I'd have no reservations about running xtr calipers at least. But I'm also lighter than a lot of guys out there getting problems I bet.
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numerik,
I've been using M800 Saint brakes on my downhill and cross-country bikes for a couple of years. I believe the XTR brakes are essentially identical, other than weight reduction and reservoir size. If so, then here are a few thoughts:
- The modulation is exceptional. By far the best I've tried and better than the M810 Saints, but that's to be expected, since power and modulation are inversely related, all else being equal.
- The power is lacking for downhill. I absolutely love them on the cross-country bike (8" F and 7" R rotors), but they're inadequate for trails that are especially demanding of your brakes.
- M810 Saints are shockingly powerful, especially coming from the M800 Saints. The M810s are the strongest brakes I've ever used - by a wide margin. Modulation is good once you're used to the power, but it'll never have the incredible fine-tuning ability of a smooth, weak brake.
- If the XTR reservoir is smaller than that of the Saint, I wouldn't recommend it for proper downhill trails. I do happen to have a pair of M800 Saint levers in top shape, though...
I've been using M800 Saint brakes on my downhill and cross-country bikes for a couple of years. I believe the XTR brakes are essentially identical, other than weight reduction and reservoir size. If so, then here are a few thoughts:
- The modulation is exceptional. By far the best I've tried and better than the M810 Saints, but that's to be expected, since power and modulation are inversely related, all else being equal.
- The power is lacking for downhill. I absolutely love them on the cross-country bike (8" F and 7" R rotors), but they're inadequate for trails that are especially demanding of your brakes.
- M810 Saints are shockingly powerful, especially coming from the M800 Saints. The M810s are the strongest brakes I've ever used - by a wide margin. Modulation is good once you're used to the power, but it'll never have the incredible fine-tuning ability of a smooth, weak brake.
- If the XTR reservoir is smaller than that of the Saint, I wouldn't recommend it for proper downhill trails. I do happen to have a pair of M800 Saint levers in top shape, though...
Thanks for all the answers! I get the picture now