[Sandwich]

http://www.bikemag.com/gear/news-shimano-debuts-new-xtr/

http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/feature/First-Look-2015-Shimano-XTR-9000-New-Drivetrain-Wheels-Brakes,248

Love/hate/apathy? I like that they're doing a 40-11, it should allow for a normal cassette hub. I think they should also have done a 42-11, but whatever. I also can't understand why not having a 10 and 42, or three teeth of range, is SO MUCH LESS than X01. It'll be interesting if anything is done with the new front derailleur, but I think it's too late to the party.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

i think they fell flat on their face with this one. People need those gears for various reasons based on fitness/terrain. I am a long time fan of shimano drivetrains and really do think this will push me over to sram. With king releasing a retrofit driver for my hub I just need a cassette chain and derailleur.

oh and that outer ring setup is hideous

 

[jonKranked]

sandy andy, i've read elsewhere that they limited the ranges specifically so no special hub adapters would be necessary. they also claim that people who need that much range are better served with their 2x setup.

the new side swing front deraillers are a neat innovation.

 

[Sandwich]

It's not that people don't need the extra range, it's that three teeth is not a huge difference as the articles are making them seem. Especially if Shimano releases a saint-branded 11-42t cassette, that one tooth probably isn't going to be markedly noticeable, and I'd bet a lot of people would rather have the wheels they own than 1 tooth extra.

Then again, RS did just released a revised marzocchi RAC for close to $2000 that's heavier than a sid and requires a special hub...

 

[Samoto]

what i like about the casette, I can reuse old and new Saint/Zee short cage derailleurs it wouldnt work with 42t.

cranks look neat, if i could afford

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

what i like about the casette, I can reuse old and new Saint/Zee short cage derailleurs it wouldnt work with 42t.

cranks look neat, if i could afford

will it really work with a short cage? that is nice i guess...maybe i'll back pedal a bit here ha.

 

[jonKranked]

It's not that people don't need the extra range, it's that three teeth is not a huge difference as the articles are making them seem.

the info i read indicated that another part of the reason is that by limiting the total range, they keep the gaps in between gears more consistent for better shifting. there's only one gap that jumps 5 teeth/

 

[Jeremy R]

I am probably in the minority here, but I like it because that is all that I need. I have been running 1 x since back in the 9 speed days with a 11-32t cassette. So, if I could get a regular 11-40t cassette with a good gear spread I would be stoked. That said, I still will not buy one until the XT version comes which will be a while.

 

[aenema]

Just saying it is only 3 teeth different from SRAM is misleading. It is a ratio, not a fact that it is only 1 tooth smaller or 2 teeth bigger. Going from an 11 to a 10 is a very noticeable difference because it is a pretty significant percentage of change. I have a 34 front and a 10-42 rear on a 26 inch bike and it is impossible to spin out that 34-10. Buddy has a 32-10 on his 650b bike and it is also impossible to spin that out. Like most people, the love for the xx1 was that we could have a single ring setup and not have to compromise. I can climb anything I have come across and still have the taller gearing needed to never spin out on the downs. Shimano missed the mark here in not providing something comparable. Saying we should stick with 2x is not a solution to people wanting to go to 1x.

 

[slimshady]

The cranks look like last year's Acera X's ones. Looks like they put extra effort in the bling factor to gain some terrain back from SRAM's XX1 strike. Carbon ramped inner plate for improved shifting? 9 ti cogs? how long will it last???

 

[amishmatt]

The cassette looks good. 40t is plenty for around here, and not needing a proprietary hub/driver is awesome.

Cranks are kind of disappointing, yet another new BCD standard. I was hoping to see a spiderless offering from Shimano.

 

[Samoto]

will it really work with a short cage? that is nice i guess...maybe i'll back pedal a bit here ha.

when i looked for a larger cog to add to an cheap casette, i found some info from one site. It seems that it fits frames within 25mm chain growth. I use 40t to climb up and i dont extend travel much while in climbing.

http://www.oneupcomponents.com/pages/compatibility

The OneUp 40T sprocket is compatible with the same rear derailleurs mentioned above. In addition, when used in a 1X system, the OneUp 40T sprocket is compatible with Zee FR and Saint (when set in FR mode) on bikes with 25mm or less suspension chain growth. To check the chain growth of your suspension ask the manufacturer or follow the steps below

- Measure the distance between the rear axle and crank axle.

- Deflate the rear shock and cycle the suspension to find and measure the spot in the travel where this distance is the longest

- The difference between these numbers is the chain growth of your suspension

 

['size]

will it really work with a short cage? that is nice i guess...maybe i'll back pedal a bit here ha.

i'm running 11-40 with an x9 short cage - works great.

 

[Sandwich]

Just saying it is only 3 teeth different from SRAM is misleading. It is a ratio, not a fact that it is only 1 tooth smaller or 2 teeth bigger. Going from an 11 to a 10 is a very noticeable difference because it is a pretty significant percentage of change. I have a 34 front and a 10-42 rear on a 26 inch bike and it is impossible to spin out that 34-10. Buddy has a 32-10 on his 650b bike and it is also impossible to spin that out. Like most people, the love for the xx1 was that we could have a single ring setup and not have to compromise. I can climb anything I have come across and still have the taller gearing needed to never spin out on the downs. Shimano missed the mark here in not providing something comparable. Saying we should stick with 2x is not a solution to people wanting to go to 1x.

I'm not trying to say that people don't need 10-42 or can't benefit from it. I'm just pointing out that at least one reviewer said just HOW MUCH different that is, and oh-gee-i-dunno if it'll be enough. I think people should be able to look at it plainly and say "Yeah, that's enough for me" or "No, the two extra teeth on the low range and one extra tooth on the high will allow me to get places I can't with the other stuff", but playing it like it's an 12-21 vs. a 2-50 is kind of dramatizing it.

 

[rideit]

Only usable for racers here in the Tetons.
No go for me.
Bummer.

 

[aenema]

I'm not trying to say that people don't need 10-42 or can't benefit from it. I'm just pointing out that at least one reviewer said just HOW MUCH different that is, and oh-gee-i-dunno if it'll be enough. I think people should be able to look at it plainly and say "Yeah, that's enough for me" or "No, the two extra teeth on the low range and one extra tooth on the high will allow me to get places I can't with the other stuff", but playing it like it's an 12-21 vs. a 2-50 is kind of dramatizing it.

I never thought you meant to say people don't need or can't benefit, just wanted to clarify it is a percentage of change from gear to gear. Personally, I think a 10 is significantly different than an 11. But I don't think a 42 is significantly different than a 40. But again, the percentage of change from one gear to the next is much larger going from 11 to 10 than it is from 40 to 42.
But yeah, there is a lot of dramatization that goes on whenever marketing comes into play. It is cool that you can use a standard freehub with the Shimano setup, but I think that is the only perk it has to offer and falls short everywhere else in regards to functionality. And you know it will not undercut pricing.

 

[StiHacka]

For me, a 10sp cassette + optionally a 42/40T sprocket + a 10sp SRAM x9/SAINT RD + a 9sp chain + a spidereless crank with a splined ring >> 11sp XTR with the same range.

 

[rideit]

Personally, I think a 10 is significantly different than an 11. But I don't think a 42 is significantly different than a 40. .

Here in the Tetons, you are never in your 10, and almost always wishing you had another gear on the low end....

 

[kidwoo]

Can you point out the bike trails in that photo?

 

[rideit]

Here in the Tetons, you are never in your 10, and almost always wishing you had another gear on the low end....

yes, I can.
Granted they are on the lower flanks, (up to 10,000 feet) but in there you can 'see' most of the Targhee trails (800-10,000 feet in about a mile, 30 miles of trail), Mill Creek (4K descent), Spring Creek (BRUTAL) , Aspen Trail (intermediate, but I use all gears I can get!)

they still have a lot of 15-20% sections, and plenty of sustained climbs. In the Big Hole's, the mark of a proper ride is the amount of hike-a-bike! (other side of the valley)

[EDIT] If you include 'rides to do in the late fall on a tuesday night, with good lights and mondo bear spray', there are at least six more good options in that pic...(-;

All in all, there are probably 50-60 miles of trail in that picture. And thats just one slice of the valley.

 

[marshalolson]

800 to 10,000 feet in a mile? that is quite steep.

 

[rideit]

As long as we are on the topic....there are supposedly 450 or so miles of trails in that yonder little range ovah dayah

Hey, you can see my Victor house in this pic! (if you squint)

 

[hitar_potar]

Well, at least you can use the XTR rear shifter/derailleur combo on XX1 cassettes. Best of both worlds!

 

[sethimus]

is the di2 stuff still under embargo?

 

[HardtailHack]

Too much uphill talk, move it to the XC section.

 

[epic]

is the di2 stuff still under embargo?

It must be. That's all I care about. 11-36 has been plenty for me.

 

[Jm_]

Everyone always points out how in THEIR state the trails are too hard to not have an 18t granny ring and 11-52 rear cassette.


Then some dude goes by on a single speed.

 

[rideit]

Yeah, but that dude doesn't work, is under 35, and rides 30 hours a week!
Besides...you almost always see them on the mellower trails.

 

[Jm_]

It's ok, hybrid mountain bikes will soon solve this gear-range problem of 24-36 not being low enough.

 

[Jm_]

Until we get even fatter.

 

[rideit]

Bring the voltage

 

[frorider]

Well, at least you can use the XTR rear shifter/derailleur combo on XX1 cassettes. Best of both worlds!

I was going to try this. But would like solid confirmation before dropping the $$

 

[rideit]

I was going to try this. But would like solid confirmation before dropping the $$

hmmmn. But what would be the advantage?

 

[Floor Tom]

I'm not trying to say that people don't need 10-42 or can't benefit from it. I'm just pointing out that at least one reviewer said just HOW MUCH different that is, and oh-gee-i-dunno if it'll be enough. I think people should be able to look at it plainly and say "Yeah, that's enough for me" or "No, the two extra teeth on the low range and one extra tooth on the high will allow me to get places I can't with the other stuff", but playing it like it's an 12-21 vs. a 2-50 is kind of dramatizing it.

It is less than half of the way from an 11-36 to an xx1 10-42

11-36 - 327% range
11-40 - 364% range
10-42 - 420% range

I also really do not understand the sprocket sizes in the new XTR cassette, I'd have thought that they would keep the same ratio as the 10 speed and add a 42T (11-42 - 381% range), a bit like the converters but without the funky bit down near the higher end of the cassette. However they closed the ratios up a little over gears 2-11, I am dissapoint

 

[frorider]

hmmmn. But what would be the advantage?

I like the low profile of shadow derailleurs, and adjustable clutch. Once shimano went to a cable advance ratio similar to SRAM, I moved back to shimano after running x9/x0 for years.

Sure I'd rather get a shimano 42-10, but if in fact the 11 spd xtr can handle that spread on a low chain growth bike, then Ill buy a SRAM cassette.