[WHEELIEKING]

Fellow Downhillers,

I live in Florida and am able to do a race/see the mtns about once a month. I do not get the benefit of gravity riding to train. My hands are bombed by half a 4 minute run. I am having to take it easy to survive the bottom half. Rock gardens are the worst due to hand fatigue. On board video looks like I am getting bounced like crazy. I am not sure what the major problem is in the list below. Any ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

1 spring too firm (fox 40 rc2 2009) getting about 1.75 inches of sag. I weigh 180 with the preload all the way out. Rock Gardens look and feel like a pogo stick but the wheel/shock does seem to get good traction and is not boucing me off..just a very rough ride. Purple spring maybe? Weird that I am not even using preload and I am at top of weight chart on blue medium spring and barely hitting a sag mark. Maybe the purple would be better and adjust preload. I have heard the springs run on the stiff side....?

2 Riding time downhill..cant help

3 rotating levers up and closer to bar..will do and try. Hard to beleive this is the only culprit.

4. training.. have been doing deadlifts (no hand straps) and the damn hand squeezers. Not much help. Hands still blowing up mid track.

5 Avid elixr r's...brakes too weak and causing fatigue?

Ride a 303RDH 2009

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Iridemtb]

Try to strengthen your arms as well. I don't think this is the primary issue but it sure can't hurt. Do wrist curls, reverse wrist curls, dumbbell forearm reverse curls.

For triceps try close grip bench, push ups, skull crushers, cable pull downs and dips.

For biceps try curls. Hammer curls, just standard curls, isolation curls, preacher curls. Pull ups, etc...

*Important if you choose to do this*- Do super sets (exercise opposing muscles back to back, so do like hammer curls, then dips, then hammer curls, then dips, then hammer curls, and dips one more time. Then switch to another exercise). This will not only benefit you for cardio, but will give your muscles a factor of endurance. Aim for reps of 10-15 I would say.

I say arms because I think that it is easier to hold onto something when you have more control of it. I.E. if you have a 10 year old and 20 year old with the same hand strength, going the same speed on a section where they both are equally as smooth, it is probably easier for the 20 year old to hold on due to more overall body control. These exercises will help your riding over all.

 

[rocketmatt17]

Do some indoor rock climbing. It makes a huge difference

 

[Jettj45]

Riding agressive XC would help you out as well.

 

[gemini2k]

I've seen a lot of cases of this where the brakes are the main problem as crazy as it is. Properly bled and setup brakes will make a world of difference.

Also, focus on your grip when you ride. Are you relaxed? Or do you have a ninja death grip?

Another important factor is weight distribution. Are you putting your weight on your arms? DON'T!! Think of your arms as just there to keep the bars straight. Steer with your core/hips and support yourself with your legs. Keep your weight back and centered and off of your arms. Watch a motocross race. Those guys almost look like they are just standing straight up, all their weight is on their legs.

Hope that helps, just some things to think about. Although only focus on one at a time while you ride.

 

[Pepper Brooks]

https://www.shakeweight.com/flare/next

 

[TheTruth]

Do some indoor rock climbing. It makes a huge difference

Everyday man. If your hands are weak, climb rocks. Your hands will get strong real quick. You gotta be able to pull your body weight with two fingers.

 

[ScarredOne]

https://www.shakeweight.com/flare/next

BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA!!!!


On a serious note, here's what I would do, aside from a good endurance-oriented resistance training program:

-stock medium spring
-increase rebound damping
-decrease LSC/HSC
-softer grips, play around with different diameters
-keep brake levers angled down, but not vertical
-decrease brake lever reach
-bleed brakes
-try more aggresive pad compound

Just my $0.02, YMMV.

 

[Beast]

 

[gemini2k]

Nah. There's almost NO way it's you being too weak. Even an average non-athletic guy should be able to do a few short DH runs without killing their forearms/hands, even with horrible suspension and terrible grips. I'd bet a $100 bucks its technique. It's NEVER from having weak hands. Unless you're like a recovering cancer patient or something with withering arms, the fatigue is from your technique.

MAAAAAYbe brakes, but if you're having the problem on short runs, or after only 1 run or 2, it's probably not that. IME poor brake setup affects your hand stamina more than anything.

 

[norbar]

Nah. There's almost NO way it's you being too weak. Even an average non-athletic guy should be able to do a few short DH runs without killing their forearms/hands, even with horrible suspension and terrible grips. I'd bet a $100 bucks its technique. It's NEVER from having weak hands. Unless you're like a recovering cancer patient or something with withering arms, the fatigue is from your technique.

MAAAAAYbe brakes, but if you're having the problem on short runs, or after only 1 run or 2, it's probably not that. IME poor brake setup affects your hand stamina more than anything.

Wrong grip diameter can do it easily. Ruffians destroyed my hands to the point I got blood on them due to them being too thin. Switched to Rouge and then to Oury and no problems.
Technique is important but so is suspension and brake setup.

 

[Bikael Molton]

yeah if you wear L or XL or XXL gloves, definitely give rogue or Ourys a try.

Are you death-gripping? That would seem to be the only thing that could cause fatigue that quickly. Riding technical terrain more often and getting more comfortable in that terrain would help a lot.

EDIT: in case that term is just something my friends use... death-gripping means overly gripping your bars because you don't feel confident or in the zone enough to ride loose and flowy. White-knuckling it down the mountain can kill your hands in just a run or two.

 

[Straya]

I recommend an intensive program of masturbation. Left and right hand.
As for the bike problem, check your brake lever location

 

[Sandwich]

Wrong grip diameter can do it easily. Ruffians destroyed my hands to the point I got blood on them due to them being too thin. Switched to Rouge and then to Oury and no problems.
Technique is important but so is suspension and brake setup.

Make sure you have a grip diameter appropriate to your hand. I run between a M and L glove, depending on brand, and found that rogues were constantly too thick. I switched to an intense half-waffle and lost mucho death grip.

The other big one was switching to powerful brakes and adjusting them appropriately. Ideally, I think, your first knuckle should be at 45* and your second at 90* for maximum brake power. You want the levers to be close enough to grip them firmly and still have strength to grip the bar. Too much difference can cause fatigue.

Suspension setup can help/change things, but I think that more comes down to upper arm fatigue than hand pump. You may be able to lower air pressure in your tires to aid small pump sensitivity, which is the thing that really rattles your hands.

 

[norbar]

Make sure you have a grip diameter appropriate to your hand. I run between a M and L glove, depending on brand, and found that rogues were constantly too thick. I switched to an intense half-waffle and lost mucho death grip.

The other big one was switching to powerful brakes and adjusting them appropriately. Ideally, I think, your first knuckle should be at 45* and your second at 90* for maximum brake power. You want the levers to be close enough to grip them firmly and still have strength to grip the bar. Too much difference can cause fatigue.

Suspension setup can help/change things, but I think that more comes down to upper arm fatigue than hand pump. You may be able to lower air pressure in your tires to aid small pump sensitivity, which is the thing that really rattles your hands.

I think not enough damping and you may feel your hands on more chattery type of trails. As for the grips - yea that was stupid of me - I wanted something green and rouges were not available so I went with ruffians. Too bad my hand size is XL

 

[jonKranked]

 

[denjen]

Getting #3 on your list right will help a lot.

1- You want the levers rotated so when you are back off of the bike your wrists and forearm stay in a straight line.
2- Move the levers inward on the bar. You want them in far enough so you just have to one finger it.
3- Move the lever tip closer to the bar. It should lock up just before it hits the grip.

My arm pump completely went away once I got the brakes set up properly

 

[homepiece]

Grip diameter and brake lever position are very big influences. Also check the engagement point of your brakes.

Another thing that most people don't realize is the fit and position of elbow armor. I have pretty big forearms and wore elbow armor. Tried all of the standard things to not get arm pump. Nothing worked until I stopped wearing full elbow protection. Full blood flow to the hands is a big contributor as well.

 

[Bikael Molton]

^^ yep - I can't wear armor on my arms for the same reason.

 

[blender]

definitely agree with some of the things that have been mentioned
i've always been very conscious of doing everything i can to avoid early hand fatigue, as that can completely make or break your entire day of riding.

three major things on my list of eliminating arm pump and hand fatigue

1. brake lever position! this is a big one... denjen nailed all the correct points on proper brake lever adjustments. In addition, having the most powerful and reliable DH brake you can afford will help you tremendously.

2. riding loose. It usually takes me one or two runs to get into the "zone", where I release my grip and completely relax my arms, letting the bike flow through the rough sections. It's amazing what that does for hand fatigue. Remember - ride your bike with your legs and hips, NOT your hands, arms and upper body.

3. elbow pads. Just like some of the others, I can't seem to befriend the elbow pads. Too loose and they're sliding down all the time, too tight and they're cutting off circulation to my hands causing premature hand fatigue. Most of the time I just leave them in the car.

another small thing that helps me when I do get the dreaded arm pump and hand fatigue. Stretch and massage your wrists, hands and forearms between runs. It will stimulate blood flow and help relax the tension in the muscles.

 

[jutny]

Grip diameter and brake lever position are very big influences. Also check the engagement point of your brakes.

Another thing that most people don't realize is the fit and position of elbow armor. I have pretty big forearms and wore elbow armor. Tried all of the standard things to not get arm pump. Nothing worked until I stopped wearing full elbow protection. Full blood flow to the hands is a big contributor as well.

me freakin too!! I loosened up SO much when I stopped wearing my full elbow gear. And the arm pump went away, hand fatigue was still there

as everyone else said, brake setup is a key. Maybe bar width too, are you wide in the shoulders? Cockpit setup as with any bike is very important. Look at optimizing your cockpit for your attack position.

that said, I used to death grip because I was scared. I actually did what someone in this thread said and pay attention to your breathing during runs. I realized I wasn't breathing right, and locking up, and getting fatigue and arm pump.

I started focusing on the breathing, now I'm relaxed going down the mtn. No arm pump, no death grip, fingers holding the brakes ready to squeeze @ the perfect position.

Good luck!

 

[tacubaya]

 

[stringcheese]

Maybe check to see if the oil level is too high in your fork. Or even better, just put a lighter weight oil in there so that the damper can react more to the chattery stuff.

 

[WHEELIEKING]

Hillarious

 

[WHEELIEKING]

Grip diameter and brake lever position are very big influences. Also check the engagement point of your brakes.

Another thing that most people don't realize is the fit and position of elbow armor. I have pretty big forearms and wore elbow armor. Tried all of the standard things to not get arm pump. Nothing worked until I stopped wearing full elbow protection. Full blood flow to the hands is a big contributor as well.

I do wear full arm/elbow protection.. this could be the culprit..first the hands go. then the forearm is blowing up. will switch to elbow only

 

[daisycutter]

Brake set up is key. Levers should be close to the bar and require very little effort to reach.

 

[WHEELIEKING]

thanks for all of the advice... I will implement all of the above!!

 

[denjen]

thanks for all of the advice... I will implement all of the above!!

One more thing about lever position. Make sure you get it set up so you can squeeze it with the lever between your knuckles on you index finger. You do not want to use the tip of your finger. I get arm pump bad any time I have to extend my finger to much to reach the lever.