[ldw222]

I really like how Shimano brakes feel and I like the mineral oil but I keep having the same issues with them year after year. I had XTs last year with the servo wave levers and got a set of Saints this year and after a while, the lever goes to the grip after not using them for a few seconds. When I go to bleed them the fluid in the reservoir looks dirty. Has anyone else had this problem and found a resolution? Are the o-rings on the caliper pistons leaking or is it somewhere else? It drives me crazy...I'm thinking about trying Formulas next...

 

[chillindrdude]

my guess is that you have air in the system. either that or a blown master cylinder, but that should be readily obvious, as you prob will see oil leaking out.

how are you bleeding them?

 

[ldw222]

my guess is that you have air in the system. either that or a blown master cylinder, but that should be readily obvious, as you prob will see oil leaking out.

how are you bleeding them?

how would i know if the master cylinder is blown? this time it seems to have happened after a crash that bent the lever. could that do it?

 

[Morgan]

I had the exact same thing happen!, i bled them, bootm/top, top/bottom, tapped them, slapped them, ect, i couldnt get it to stop. shimano rep came by and warrantied the set, so got a new set of prebled ready to go brakes, worked great for a week then same problem, they warrentied them a 2nd time and they still had this issue, i completely took them apart and upon reassembly they worked great for maybe 3 weeks, then pull to bar was back, i was so over it so i got some avids and called it the day, bum deal, i honestly know how annoying it is, i would have to pump my brakes a few secs before i actually need to use them! lame!!

 

[Lelandjt]

I never had Saints but my XTs and XTRs needed frequent bleeding and were inconsistent. I replaced them with Formula The Ones and R1s and they're perfect and very light.

 

[ldw222]

so i'm not the only one. that does it then...i'm getting something different. I'm sick of dealing with these things. thanks guys!

 

[etabs]

ive read about this problem before in other threads and it sounds like alot of people arent liking the saints.

i rode with them all season and litterally have not had one problem with them (and i rode alot this season). i guess i just got lucky, but i hope this doesnt happen latter on.

 

[Triple8Sol]

Got a used set of the older Saint brakes with my bike. They were pre-bled and worked great for about a month. After adjusting from the stiff/grabby Juicy 5's and Nines I was used to, I really liked the modulation and power.

Then suddenly, the rear had the problem you guys are describing. The lever went soft and would pull almost all the way in, yet still not full power. Bled it bottom to top, and it worked as good as before, the next time out. Then suddenly back to the same problem. Found a .pdf from Shimano about how to bleed it, which recommends top to bottom. Did that, but it still isn't working. Kind of stumped at this point.

 

[bikesair]

I'm holding out for some Primes. Very well engineered and has some neat features.

 

[Tomasis]

probably it need bleed on right way.. satisfied with mine

 

[Sandwich]

i find the quality of the bleed is essential. I had problems with lever "dropping" but a good bleed fixed it. FWIW I run pentosin CHF7.1 in my lines with no issue.

I bleed mine moto style, top down, fill it up, cap on, pump lever, open valve, close, fill, repeat.

 

[4130biker]

Got a used set of the older Saint brakes with my bike. They were pre-bled and worked great for about a month. After adjusting from the stiff/grabby Juicy 5's and Nines I was used to, I really liked the modulation and power.

Then suddenly, the rear had the problem you guys are describing. The lever went soft and would pull almost all the way in, yet still not full power. Bled it bottom to top, and it worked as good as before, the next time out. Then suddenly back to the same problem. Found a .pdf from Shimano about how to bleed it, which recommends top to bottom. Did that, but it still isn't working. Kind of stumped at this point.

Had the same problem (on my "old" saints)- turned out that my rear rotor was so bent that it was self adjusting the caliper to the wacky rotor. Lever was pulling to bars, no power, lame. So I straightened the rotor (trailside), pulled my wheel out and pulled the lever a bit to get the pads to adjust in, and now they're perfect.

 

[rocketmatt17]

I had the same problem, if you do a search you will find the thread. I dealt with it for six months and finally they sent me a replacement set... I sold them. I was very patient and tried everything to get them to work consistently which I was never able to do. Try the the new hope moto V2's. The fit and finish is amazing and the reliability is great.

 

[kidwoo]

Saints fvcking rule. The newer ones really are the best brakes I've ever ridden for dh.

That said, I know exactly what you're talking about

I've got three bikes with servo levers. Rebleeding (very anally ((huh huh anally bleeding))) only worked with one set. The other two honest to god just quit doing that after some riding. I don't know if the constant bumping around brought that little satan bubble to the top or what, but they really did do that........and then they didn't.

There's not a brake on the market I'd trade them for.

So for anyone with some servo lever shimanos they want to give up on......you're right, they suck. And they have no market value. Sell them to me cheap

 

[firstbornbikes]

Just last week I decided to finally give up and call Shimano. I've bled and re-bled (for two seasons), and usually just pumped my levers before each ride to build up pressure for a run, but thought that "enough was enough." They denied really having knowledge of this problem but offered to send new levers anyway. I'm hoping that may solve the problem. BTW, I have VERY METICULOUSLY bled them by every method suggested and every time it only worked for awhile before returning to the "squish zone."

I've got confidence, however, that Shimano will recognize the widespread problem and redesign in the coming year(s).

 

[Lelandjt]

They have, seen the new XTR Trail brake?

 

[ldw222]

Just last week I decided to finally give up and call Shimano. I've bled and re-bled (for two seasons), and usually just pumped my levers before each ride to build up pressure for a run, but thought that "enough was enough." They denied really having knowledge of this problem but offered to send new levers anyway. I'm hoping that may solve the problem. BTW, I have VERY METICULOUSLY bled them by every method suggested and every time it only worked for awhile before returning to the "squish zone."

I've got confidence, however, that Shimano will recognize the widespread problem and redesign in the coming year(s).

I can't believe they don't know they have an issue with those things. Did you see Lelandjt's post on the new lever? I wonder if they'll work with the Saint calipers? I would like to stick with Shimanos and try this lever but I don't have any confidence in their brakes right now. It sucks because when they work they're amazing...

 

[Triple8Sol]

Solved my problem today. Turns out it was a contamination issue, because some mineral oil had gotten on the pads/rotors during the bleeding process. Cleaned the rotors with some rubbing alcohol and then hit it lightly with 400 grit sandpaper. The old pads had some life left, but went ahead and just threw on new ones. Problem solved.

 

[Steve M]

Solved my problem today. Turns out it was a contamination issue, because some mineral oil had gotten on the pads/rotors during the bleeding process. Cleaned the rotors with some rubbing alcohol and then hit it lightly with 400 grit sandpaper. The old pads had some life left, but went ahead and just threw on new ones. Problem solved.

Your problem hasn't been solved if your lever was "going soft", that has absolutely nothing to do with contaminated pads/rotor. Contamination only affects the power (and sometimes noise) the brake has, it does NOT affect the feel of the lever.

 

[Banshee Rider]

They have, seen the new XTR Trail brake?

These brakes are beyond legit. I just spent two weeks on them, and its going to be hard giving them back! Super good modulation, and the levers have a real springy feel. Tempted to convert...

 

[firstbornbikes]

Your problem hasn't been solved if your lever was "going soft", that has absolutely nothing to do with contaminated pads/rotor. Contamination only affects the power (and sometimes noise) the brake has, it does NOT affect the feel of the lever.

I agree, that's an altogether different problem.

I got my replacement levers yesterday and spent two hours METICULOUSLY bleeding. This morning I opened the reservoirs to get out any small bubbles (as suggested in the tech manual) and am going to do the same before I leave work today (I work at a shop) after letting them sit (levers horizontal) over the day. I'm planning on riding this weekend, so I'll post an update after that. It seems to me that they are just simply VERY DIFFICULT to properly bleed. They are great brakes when working correctly, but the internal surfaces must allow air to "hide" or something. I'm positive that the bleed will be PERFECT before I am satisfied, so hopefully that will be the end of the problem. Here's my bleed procedure.

- Added new levers to stock hoses and calipers.
- Hung bike vertically on stand (FOX 40 hanging over stand arm).
- Removed rear caliper and hung as close to vertical as possible.
- Removed pads and added YELLOW BLEED BLOCK.
- Rotated lever to horizontal position and left clamp semi-tight.
- Opened reservoir and added mineral oil.
- Opened bleed screw and let fluid drain out.
- Pulled lever multiple times to get fluid to begin flowing (new levers).
- Filled reservoir while letting fluid leak into container (at caliper).
- Pulled lever, filled, pulled, etc. Tapped hose, lever, caliper.
- Closed bleed screw, rubber-banded lever.
- Quickly opened and closed bleed port while lever pulled (almost) to bar.
- Repeated several times.
- Flicked lever to let small bubbles out of reservoir (20 minutes minimum).
- Filled reservoir, added lid (oil overflowing from reservoir), wiped clean.
- Cleaned calipers, added pads, bolted back on bike and centered.
- Sat overnight, opened lids, flicked levers to get out MORE small bubbles.
- Sat throughout the day, repeated process @ levers.

See, VERY meticulous and damn time-consuming!

 

[LOOnatic]

I have old saints and the new style XT's.
What a buddy taught me for a good bleed was to squirt new fluid with a syringe and right before closing the bleeder, slightly retract the syringe and usually a pesky air bubble hiding in the caliper would be sucked out.
Then close bleeder, install resi cap etc.

 

[ldw222]

I agree, that's an altogether different problem.

I got my replacement levers yesterday and spent two hours METICULOUSLY bleeding. This morning I opened the reservoirs to get out any small bubbles (as suggested in the tech manual) and am going to do the same before I leave work today (I work at a shop) after letting them sit (levers horizontal) over the day. I'm planning on riding this weekend, so I'll post an update after that. It seems to me that they are just simply VERY DIFFICULT to properly bleed. They are great brakes when working correctly, but the internal surfaces must allow air to "hide" or something. I'm positive that the bleed will be PERFECT before I am satisfied, so hopefully that will be the end of the problem. Here's my bleed procedure.

- Added new levers to stock hoses and calipers.
- Hung bike vertically on stand (FOX 40 hanging over stand arm).
- Removed rear caliper and hung as close to vertical as possible.
- Removed pads and added YELLOW BLEED BLOCK.
- Rotated lever to horizontal position and left clamp semi-tight.
- Opened reservoir and added mineral oil.
- Opened bleed screw and let fluid drain out.
- Pulled lever multiple times to get fluid to begin flowing (new levers).
- Filled reservoir while letting fluid leak into container (at caliper).
- Pulled lever, filled, pulled, etc. Tapped hose, lever, caliper.
- Closed bleed screw, rubber-banded lever.
- Quickly opened and closed bleed port while lever pulled (almost) to bar.
- Repeated several times.
- Flicked lever to let small bubbles out of reservoir (20 minutes minimum).
- Filled reservoir, added lid (oil overflowing from reservoir), wiped clean.
- Cleaned calipers, added pads, bolted back on bike and centered.
- Sat overnight, opened lids, flicked levers to get out MORE small bubbles.
- Sat throughout the day, repeated process @ levers.

See, VERY meticulous and damn time-consuming!

that is just way too time consuming...i need to have some semblance of a life outside of bleeding my brakes...sorry, i meant racing downhill mountain bikes...i just want these f'ing bastards to work...wait a minute, why do i do this? does anyone else look forward (in a way) to the end of the season?!!

 

[Tomasis]

I have old saints and the new style XT's.
What a buddy taught me for a good bleed was to squirt new fluid with a syringe and right before closing the bleeder, slightly retract the syringe and usually a pesky air bubble hiding in the caliper would be sucked out.
Then close bleeder, install resi cap etc.

i think using syringe would make the process less troublesome.. i have to buy it..

no need such long process like firstbornbikes input

 

[Triple8Sol]

Your problem hasn't been solved if your lever was "going soft", that has absolutely nothing to do with contaminated pads/rotor. Contamination only affects the power (and sometimes noise) the brake has, it does NOT affect the feel of the lever.

Yeah you're prob right. I forgot to mention that we rebled the brakes again, for the 3rd time, right before doing the aforementioned stuff.

 

[firstbornbikes]

UPDATE:


I've ridden on the warrantied levers and fresh bleed for two weekends with great results. Not sure if it was the lever or a "non-super-intense" bleed, but they seem to be working fine now.