[dw]

Been putting the finishing touches on the history section for the updated Evil web site. I just googled some things, and came across this old story from 2001, in the beginning of Pinkbike, when the Imperial was a secret, and the Evil "reverse motolink suspension" was the talk of the MTBR downhill board for about 2 months straight. These pictures bring back some memories of days of old, thought Id share with the rest of you long-timers.

Later!

http://www.pinkbike.com/stories/evilnews.htm

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Nice, I saved all those pics onto my hard drive loong ago. Can I just ask, why the pivot location at (very close to) the chainline? Is there a specific reason for this (in regards to pedaling), or was it before you had a full understanding of pedaling dynamics (no insult intended, it's a genuine question) or what?

*curious engineering student in case you hadn't guessed*

 

[Incubus]

Cr@p! Has it been 3 years already. Time f*cking flies...

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Cr@p! Has it been 3 years already. Time f*cking flies...

In fact, it's been 2004 years! And the first 1980something of them really flew past; so fast in fact that I can't even remember them!

:nuts:

 

[MMike]

Could it have been used for free-riding?

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Could it have been used for free-riding?

Does that look like rootbeer to you?

 

[Matt D]

In fact, it's been 2004 years!

It's been A LOT longer than that.

The Evil bike is before my online-forum time, what ever happened to it?

 

[binary visions]

That's awesome. I have those pictures kicking around on my home computer somewhere.

 

[blong]

Can I just ask, why the pivot location at (very close to) the chainline? Is there a specific reason for this (in regards to pedaling),

yes, your chain holds tension from the top of the chainring to the top of the cog, and if the pivot is above or below that, it will cause extension or compression, respectively.

that's the short answer, unless mr weagle feels like yakking about moments.

 

[Guess?Who]

Always liked that pic, it looks like an Evil Lambada.

 

[Jm_]

turner beat them to it with the split-top tube moto-link type bike

 

[Acadian]

hahaha...look what I found nested on my HD

 

[BurlyShirley]

i heard it was going to be flexy.

 

[MMike]

What's the biggest tire that you could have put on it?

 

[binary visions]

What's the biggest tire that you could have put on it?

The Pinkbike article says a 26x3.0 fit with a half inch of clearance.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

yes, your chain holds tension from the top of the chainring to the top of the cog, and if the pivot is above or below that, it will cause extension or compression, respectively.

that's the short answer, unless mr weagle feels like yakking about moments.

Nah, that's not really the case. You can have the pivot below that and you'll still have chain growth (which will provide an extension force when you pedal), as well as a number of other things. The pivot-at-the-chainline (..."will give neutral pedalling") theory is easy to prove false - what I was wondering was whether this was before DW went fully insane with his DW-link stuff and telekinesis and whatnot, or if there's another reason for it

 

[BostonBullit]

I still think you should have welded one up....

 

[dw]

hahaha...look what I found nested on my HD

that screen shot is way old! Months before we released info about the bike. Pretty sure that page right there never even went live! Where did you get that! :nuts:

hah

Dave

 

[Acadian]

that screen shot is way old! Months before we released info about the bike. Pretty sure that page right there never even went live! Where did you get that! :nuts:

hah

Dave

you are right...it NEVER went up. someone...lets say the web designer at the time - accidentally had it served somewhere, nested on his server. But he took it down after I told him

 

[dw]

Nice, I saved all those pics onto my hard drive loong ago. Can I just ask, why the pivot location at (very close to) the chainline? Is there a specific reason for this (in regards to pedaling), or was it before you had a full understanding of pedaling dynamics (no insult intended, it's a genuine question) or what?

*curious engineering student in case you hadn't guessed*

Pivot location ended up there so that I could get the anti squat profile that I was looking for, its location in relation to the chainline wasnt really a driving factor though. Those pics are shown with a 44T ring too, so its a lttle decieving. The bike was planned to use a 40T ring. There are a couple other "secret" parts in there that let us change things up a bit.

Basically the idea with the system was to take a "motolink" type suspension, like found on many dirtbikes etc... and flip it upside down for packaging reasons. Hence the name reverse motolink. Earlier prototype designs that I played with looked a lot like what have become the Giant DH and Nicolai M-pirr, but this system fit my needs better at the time.

The prototype tension link between the swingarm and the top link was an adjustable length version, because the frame was designed to use the BIG avalanche MTN shock OR a 9X3 smaller avalanche shock, which was in the works at the time the bike was being built. If you look close you can see that there are 2 positions to mount the upper link. The renderings showed what we hoped would be a more "production like" frame design.

We have tossed around the idea of building a new version of this bike, but the reality of the situation is that the dw-link bikes are performing so damn well, its hard not to just go with the 4-bar. Hard to argue with 7 World Cup and NORBA Pro mens podiums in a row. You never know though!

dw

 

[dw]

Nah, that's not really the case. You can have the pivot below that and you'll still have chain growth (which will provide an extension force when you pedal), as well as a number of other things. The pivot-at-the-chainline (..."will give neutral pedalling") theory is easy to prove false - what I was wondering was whether this was before DW went fully insane with his DW-link stuff and telekinesis and whatnot, or if there's another reason for it

dw-link came about at just about the time that this bike was completed, so in early 2001. I was playing around with a bunch of different systems trying to come up with a "holy grail" platform. The Empire frame would have been an instrumented testbed to help prove general suspension thoery, and serve as a testbed for other ideas. In the end, the computer simulation become so advanced that the bike was not needed.

dw

 

[Shortbus]

can you fit a MRP chainguide on a Evil Empire?

...now accepting hate mail...

Hey DW was great meeting you at SnowShoe (I assume it was you I met?), I mentioned my sparkle blue imperial in our short conversation.

 

[Curb Hucker]

dave im still waiting on the $3500 Evil version of the IH DW link DH frame, how does next year sound

 

[ska todd]

dave im still waiting on the $3500 Evil version of the IH DW link DH frame, how does next year sound

How about I sell you a $2200 dwDH frame and dw sells you custom Evil stickers for $1300?

The new Iron Horse frame is quality. It's being made in the USA, has proprietary tubing, and 100% designed by dw himself. This ain't the IH of old!

-ska todd

 

[Slugman]

How about I sell you a $2200 dwDH frame and dw sells you custom Evil stickers for $1300?

The new Iron Horse frame is quality. It's being made in the USA, has proprietary tubing, and 100% designed by dw himself. This ain't the IH of old!

-ska todd

Especially not if the frame is $2200... did you guys move to Califonia?

 

[ska todd]

Especially not if the frame is $2200... did you guys move to Califonia?

Cali? pffft right...like we'd ever do that! :eviltongu

Neu Yawk!

-ska todd

 

[vitox]

How about I sell you a $2200 dwDH frame and dw sells you custom Evil stickers for $1300?

The new Iron Horse frame is quality. It's being made in the USA, has proprietary tubing, and 100% designed by dw himself. This ain't the IH of old!

-ska todd

note to self:
forward this to miss pizarro

 

[kidwoo]

How about I sell you a $2200 dwDH frame and dw sells you custom Evil stickers for $1300?

The new Iron Horse frame is quality. It's being made in the USA, has proprietary tubing, and 100% designed by dw himself. This ain't the IH of old!

-ska todd

Is Kinesis doing the welding/fabrication?

 

[Acadian]

Is Kinesis doing the welding/fabrication?

I hear Jan is doing them! :dancing:

 

[kidwoo]

I hear Jan is doing them! :dancing:

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! Run for your lives!!!!!!

 

[Curb Hucker]

I hear Jan is doing them! :dancing:

so it will take 4-6 months to get a frame too

 

[Acadian]

so it will take 4-6 months to get a frame too

yup...and get a bike that leaves 2 lines in the dirt even when going in a straight line!

 

[thaflyinfatman]

dw-link came about at just about the time that this bike was completed, so in early 2001. I was playing around with a bunch of different systems trying to come up with a "holy grail" platform. The Empire frame would have been an instrumented testbed to help prove general suspension thoery, and serve as a testbed for other ideas. In the end, the computer simulation become so advanced that the bike was not needed.

dw

Cool, crazy crazy stuff! May I ask what program the Empire pics were rendered in (looks *kinda* like Solidworks but I'm not familiar enough to really know)?

 

[kidwoo]

yup...and get a bike that leaves 2 lines in the dirt even when going in a straight line!

That's actually pretty damn funny.............and true.

 

[-BB-]

Oh man... I remember that frame.

It was SO secret.
I thought dave was going to make me sign a huge stack of non-disclosure docs before he sent me the Zip file full of pics.
Back in the BikeDawgz days...

Speaking of which... what ever happended to that Burley HT company that came out of that. Shoot... I can't remember the name. I think the dude's name was Ben. Cameron and Ben...