[kickstand]

I have a few questions. 650b.

I'm on a budget due to unforeseen circumstances.

So, upon some research it appears I can convert my current hope Pro 2 Evo hubs from 150 to 157 rear spacing by ordering 12x142 spacers for them. Easy enough, so far. http://www.jensonusa.com/!sW6DDOk1uvCI!YbIGhkTVA!/Hope-Pro-2-Evo-Rear-Hub-Conversion-Caps?utm_source=FRGL&utm_medium=organic&gclid=Cj0KEQiAuf2lBRDW07y3z6f96awBEiQA0IngJjWDQwVjwHLPHWLNggZf19lNpAnEhdog02UwfGrwpMYaAqyl8P8HAQ

Those ones right?

Next, wheels. I wanted to go carbon, but that is not likely to happen. Looking into the DT Swiss FR 570's unless someone has a better suggestion.

How do I calculate spoke length? I tried a few spoke calculators, but they didn't have the hubs I have in the drop downs.....

Next. Brass or alloy nipples? Seems alloy is better cause it cost more?

Sorry for all the newb questions, but I've never built a wheelset before.

 

[mykel]

Hope Pro 2 Evo
Front Hub.
Flange pitch circle diameter - 56mm Left, 54mm Right
Flange spacing distance - 20mm Left, 33mm Right
Spoke hole dia - 2.60 mm
173g weight

Rear Hub
Flange pitch circle diameter - 56mm Left, 54mm Right
Flange spacing distance - 33mm Left, 20mm Right
Spoke hole dia - 2.60 mm
323g weight

Alloy nipples - light, and come in lotsa different flavours...
Brass - heavier, stronger, basic silver or black.
Brass tend to be a bit easier to turn later for touch ups, alloy can seize a bit easier.
Alloy will round quickly if your spoke wrench or technique is poor.
Be careful, for example DT nipples are available in 12 and 14 mm length commonly, so the nipple length will effect your spoke length calcs.
I have both and prefer the weight hit of brass.

have fun.

michael

ps - if you have not, check out Roger Mussons book (availabe online) - covers pretty much everything you want to know - nicely written with easy step by step instructions, including instructions on building your own truing stand, dishing template etc etc

 

[CBJ]

http://www.derbyrims.com/ ?

 

[StiHacka]

Congrats on your decision, building wheels is fun. All you need to know is here: http://miketechinfo.com/new-tech-wheels-tires.htm and here: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

To calculate spoke length, you can break out your vernier caliper and follow the instructions here: http://www.bikeschool.com/tools/spoke-length-calculator , or just trust mykel.

I'd go with brass as well, alloy is all about the bling and weight saving which may not be the best idea for a DH wheel.

 

[kickstand]

http://www.derbyrims.com/ ?

How do $329 hoops fit into, budget cuts?

 

[4130biker]

Brass nipples! Pretty sure they can be had in black if you don't like the silver.
Just take your time, and count the number of revolutions as you first install each nipple so you have an even starting point to dish, tension and true them.
I've found that if you can nail it on the initial-even tension, very little truing is needed. Some rims are better at this than others, which is why you hear some refer to "how nicely" a certain combination of parts built up.

Last tip- when lacing, double check that the spokes lay on each other properly where they cross... Easiest is to look at another wheel with the pattern you want.

This was my "first wheel build ever" mistake when I was about 13, and I took it down to the ancient Schwinn guy, where he declared my lacing to be "jackass backwards from Schwinn". So don't lace your wheels jackass backwards from Schwinn, jackass!

 

[4130biker]

...and have fun! It's really gratifying to do it yourself and then huck the gnar on your creation

 

[WestCoastHucker]

...and have fun! It's really gratifying to do it yourself and then huck the gnar on your creation

i just watched someone i trusted build up a wheel for me once upon a time. i'd already known how to true a wheel and make sure it didn't get out of round for ages, so the rest was all just common sense from there.
it's surely a nice feeling knowing you put every part of your bike together yourself for sure. plus then you always know shit's gonna work and work right...

 

[WestCoastHucker]

How do $329 hoops fit into, budget cuts?

'cause carbon double wides. you know you want them...

 

[Verskis]

Rear Hub
Flange pitch circle diameter - 56mm Left, 54mm Right
Flange spacing distance - 33mm Left, 20mm Right
Spoke hole dia - 2.60 mm
323g weight

Those are the specs for the 135mm/142mm hub, the 150mm dimensions are otherwise the same but the flange spacing distance is the same on both sides - 26.5 mm left, 26.5 mm right.

 

[Sandwich]

I used sheldon brown's guide
The spoke calculator from prowheelbuilder.com
A park tool spoke wrench (black flavor)
Double butted sapim spokes and brass sapim nipples, from PWB

Anti-seize on the threads, makes it easier to re-true down the road for newbies like me

gorilla tape is heavier but allows for tubeless later, should I want it.

I used my ear for tension. There are guides available to know the tone based on spoke length.

Go slow, read carefully, be methodical. Enjoy some mellow tunes and brews while you work. It was very zen for me. I built two 29er (ZOMG fcking gay) wheels and my wheel builder friend approved of their trueness, though he said I could go up a bit for tension. they've held true for a while now.

 

[jonKranked]

you'll need some kind of compound on the threads. i personally use linseed oil.

 

[jonKranked]

I used sheldon brown's guide
The spoke calculator from prowheelbuilder.com
A park tool spoke wrench (black flavor)
Double butted sapim spokes and brass sapim nipples, from PWB

Anti-seize on the threads, makes it easier to re-true down the road for newbies like me

gorilla tape is heavier but allows for tubeless later, should I want it.

I used my ear for tension. There are guides available to know the tone based on spoke length.

Go slow, read carefully, be methodical. Enjoy some mellow tunes and brews while you work. It was very zen for me. I built two 29er (ZOMG fcking gay) wheels and my wheel builder friend approved of their trueness, though he said I could go up a bit for tension. they've held true for a while now.

sounds like roadie voodoo magic.

 

[kickstand]

Hope Pro 2 Evo

Be careful, for example DT nipples are available in 12 and 14 mm length commonly, so the nipple length will effect your spoke length calcs.
c

Thanks for the info on the hub dimensions, mine are still in my wheels so measuring would be tricky.

As for the 12 vs 14mm nipple sizing, is there an advantage or disadvantage to either?

 

[Sandwich]

14mm are heavier, but allow you to use shorter spokes if you've fucked up (or are switching rims and don't want to buy new spokes). I've used them in the past with different rims and stuff when I was trying to save money. They're just a little bit longer.

 

[Sandwich]

sounds like roadie voodoo magic.

I found it was more useful to just try and make sure all the spokes had the same tone, and try to get them to sound similar to the tone recommended if possible. I had a hard time getting even tension AND trueness, but I built some weird wheels.

 

[jonKranked]

As for the 12 vs 14mm nipple sizing, is there an advantage or disadvantage to either?

not really, but you'll need longer nipples if there is a big gap between the inner and outer walls of the rim (ie with a deep dish rim)

 

[jonKranked]

I found it was more useful to just try and make sure all the spokes had the same tone, and try to get them to sound similar to the tone recommended if possible. I had a hard time getting even tension AND trueness, but I built some weird wheels.

honestly i've never heard of that method. i guess i've just built enough wheels over the years i can go by feel.

 

[StiHacka]

sounds like roadie voodoo magic.

He knows his magic though, I approve.
My additional 2c: this is the best spoke wrench there is:

Anti-seize compound works great, prevents spokes from getting wound up, but is messy. Easy to clean afterwards though.
Gorilla tape is a double-edged sword. Works, but leaves tons of monstrous residue when you want to remove it. I have tried a few tapes for tubeless (that are less expensive than Stan's ripoff tape) and Kapton tape is the best IMHO: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1LENP_enUS517US517&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#tbm=shop&q=kapton+tape

I also tension by ear. After I finish lacing, I keep tensioning them until they are no longer floppy, then I do rough dish, then keep tensioning, keeping the dish in check. If you start with a good true rim, going by the sound of the spokes will get you a pretty true wheel with even tension.

 

[Dogboy]

There are a ton of good resources out there. Careful with some of the info on here - first reply and you already have bad info.

 

[Sandwich]

what's the bad advice?

 

[Udi]

I highly recommend sticking with brass nipples as others have already suggested. I have had alloy ones crack over time, apart from being not as resilient if you plan to keep the wheels for a while and put them through a few true/tension cycles.

I just use blue loctite on the spoke threads, it's worked fine for me for the last 10 years. DT prolock nipples achieve the same thing if you want to spend the extra (you can get brass prolock). The park 4-sided spoke key is slightly harder to work with but makes it safer to turn stubborn nipples, I like it but it's not for everyone.

Sheldon Brown's article is all you really need when it comes to the actual build, I have found his tip about "tightening and backing off 1/8 - 1/4 of a turn" (or something that that) useful for building wheels that stay tight (it relieves the twist in the spoke), along with the loctite.

 

[kickstand]

14mm are heavier, but allow you to use shorter spokes if you've fucked up (or are switching rims and don't want to buy new spokes). I've used them in the past with different rims and stuff when I was trying to save money. They're just a little bit longer.

Approximately 2mm?

 

[kickstand]

There are a ton of good resources out there. Careful with some of the info on here - first reply and you already have bad info.

Please expand if you don't mind?

 

[Dogboy]

what's the bad advice?

Wrong hub dimensions = wrong spokes = wasted $$$

 

[Sandro]

He knows his magic though, I approve.
My additional 2c: this is the best spoke wrench there is:

That's nice to hear, the Spokey is the very first product my dad designed.

 

[jonKranked]

Sheldon Brown's article is all you really need when it comes to the actual build, I have found his tip about "tightening and backing off 1/8 - 1/4 of a turn" (or something that that) useful for building wheels that stay tight (it relieves the twist in the spoke), along with the loctite.

i can confirm this. it will make your first post ride truing much easier.

 

[Sandwich]

Approximately 2mm?

You asked, whiz kid.

My only reservation with loctite is that if you're a newb builder, it's harder to un-fuck your wheels if you've done a bad job. All of those sealants (prolock, loctite, spoke prep, linseed oil) make the spokes harder to turn once it's fixed up. for a first time builder, i don't know if that's a good thing

 

[jonKranked]

You asked, whiz kid.

My only reservation with loctite is that if you're a newb builder, it's harder to un-fuck your wheels if you've done a bad job. All of those sealants (prolock, loctite, spoke prep, linseed oil) make the spokes harder to turn once it's fixed up. for a first time builder, i don't know if that's a good thing

this has not been my experience with linseed oil.

 

[slyfink]

buy Roger Musson's book. it's cheap, his instructions are clear and simple, and he keeps it up to date.

 

[blindboxx2334]

you'll need some kind of compound on the threads. i personally use linseed oil.

lindseed oil over everything. it is the best stuff,

i know im the minority here, but i like alloy nipples. never had an issue with them cracking, although i have rounded a few due to being an idiot.. now i just make sure ive got a nice and tight spoke wrench. the linseed oil really helps with the alloy to steel interface as well.. ive had a couple of brass nipples start to oxidize on me and make it really tough to get them off, but those were cheap-ys, your results may vary.

as for spoke tension, i just tighten them up to what i feel is adequate. i know the rear will work itself loose and the spokes will strech, and i will have to re-tension. usually the front is okay for me.

it is quite amazing how easy it is (provided, you take your time), and having a truing stand really helps. although you can jimmy rig something up with a frame/fork and a couple of zip ties.

 

[blindboxx2334]

Wrong hub dimensions = wrong spokes = wasted $$$

ive always double checked on hub info, and then measured my self to confirm. i even use two different spoke calcs to make sure im not getting any bad info.

if an idiot like me can do it. the OP can as well.

 

[kickstand]

You asked, whiz kid.

Yes, I did. However, I wasn't asking if they were longer, I was asking if there was a technical advantage or reason to use longer nipples. Whiz kid!

 

[kickstand]

ive always double checked on hub info, and then measured my self to confirm. i even use two different spoke calcs to make sure im not getting any bad info.

if an idiot like me can do it. the OP can as well.

whoa, whoa, whoa, let's not give the OP too much credit.

 

[mykel]

Interesting....
I got my numbers from a phone call to Hope a couple years ago when I got the Podium and the 157 rear.
I'm about to do a wheel build using the numbers I have...maybe another phone call to Hope is in order.
(Pro2 Evo / DT Comp / WTB I25)

michael

 

[dump]

He knows his magic though, I approve.
My additional 2c: this is the best spoke wrench there is:

.

Agreed - this the best spoke wrench I've used.

 

[mtg]

lindseed oil over everything. it is the best stuff,

i know im the minority here, but i like alloy nipples. never had an issue with them cracking, although i have rounded a few due to being an idiot.. now i just make sure ive got a nice and tight spoke wrench. the linseed oil really helps with the alloy to steel interface as well.. ive had a couple of brass nipples start to oxidize on me and make it really tough to get them off, but those were cheap-ys, your results may vary.

as for spoke tension, i just tighten them up to what i feel is adequate. i know the rear will work itself loose and the spokes will strech, and i will have to re-tension. usually the front is okay for me.

it is quite amazing how easy it is (provided, you take your time), and having a truing stand really helps. although you can jimmy rig something up with a frame/fork and a couple of zip ties.

Have you figured out a way to keep linseed oil from becoming a dirt magnet on/around the nipples? I've used it on a few wheels, and it works great, but I always hated the dirt that always accumulated around the area.

 

[rollertoaster]

I use linseed oil too. Goes on as a liquid then turns to a waxy consistency. I use alloy nipples on carbon only, otherwise I prefer brass. I also invested in a tension meter, I'm so glad I did. I run low tension with thin spokes on carbon rims mostly, and at 200lbs it's important that my wheels are evenly tensioned so they don't explode.

 

[StiHacka]

I use alloy nipples on carbon only

https://www.google.com/search?q=galvanic+corrosion+carbon+fiber+aluminum&espv=2&biw=1538&bih=839&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ffnCVJ2xL4GHNripg_AG&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#tbm=isch&q=galvanic+corrosion+carbon+aluminum+nipples&imgdii=_

 

[kazlx]

buy Roger Musson's book. it's cheap, his instructions are clear and simple, and he keeps it up to date.

I concur. Built my first wheel, which was a Hadley hub and used 823 that I had laying around just to 'go for it'. Came out great. Built a couple since then, including a full set for my buddy that came out great. The hardest part is making sure your measurements are right and fit the parts. Hub, spokes, nipples. Once you you have everything, the actual build is pretty straightforward. Musson's book is worth the $15 or whatever it is, IMO, but you can also dig around and get the info for free.