It's not coming out till next year. But here's the scoup from SC's monthly news letter. If you want their newsletter each month, sign up at: http://www.santacruzbicycles.com:80/mail/add.php
Official info from SC on the new V10
- Thread starter ChrisKring
- Start date
sweet, I can't wait to see pics
The pics are already out there in another thread. Expect to see a bunch of pics after Sea Otter
I wouldn't count on it. Nobody brings out the big guns for Otter (downhill bike wise). Figure the first WC of the year at Vigo unless they just decide to hang it up and show off, which would seem strange?
yeah, I'd like to see it
ditto.
don't make us start a riot!
don't make us start a riot!
I always thought that was what Sea Otter is all about, showing off the new gear.
oh, I already saw that, nvm
Not when it is something you are trying to keep hush hush though...
...like say, for example a gearbox bike...
:biggrin:
:biggrin:
well it looks better than the old one..i think lol
where are the e-critics on this one...should be a cool bike SC bikes havent been doing much form me lately...I hope this one is an exception.
that's a really big cross country race bike isn't it?
Oh wait...Peat's seatpost. Trips me out every time I see it.
So...who's everybody's breakout athlete for Sea Otter this year? From what I'm seeing of Graves around the world...
Oh wait...Peat's seatpost. Trips me out every time I see it.
So...who's everybody's breakout athlete for Sea Otter this year? From what I'm seeing of Graves around the world...
They haven't been doing much for you? Have you been riding them lately? Newer SC bikes are sick.
The high leverage ratio on the v10 is done purposely to allow for the swingarm to compress the shock with less resistence. This means that the shock will move more easily when the rear tire contacts any disturbance. There are benefits to lower leverage ratios, but mostly controlling the later half of the shock's stroke. I haven't heard of the v10 blowing shocks often, have you?Any word on the shock killing leverage ratio being changed?
By your reasoning you'd see manufacturers leaning towards high leverage bikes for DH, but exactly the opposite is happening.
The V10 has an astonishing 3.6:1 leverage ratio.
How about the Sunday? (under 3:1)
Cove Shocker? (2.9:1)
Demo 8? (2.9:1)
Pretty much with every other major player this will hold true.
Lower leverage bikes allow more effective shock adjustments and don't put near the stress on the seals/hardware.
I bet you a cool $20 the next V10 will be a 3" stroke shock, reducing the leverage ratio (and shooting huge holes in your reasoning)
Have I seen any blown up shocks?
The one in my living room (buddies bike) just got back from PUSH.
It was sent there just for sh*ts and giggles
A leverage ratio so high a 180 pound rider needs 600 pound spring to keep the tire from eating the seat? Exactly what PUSH told him to do.
a. It's not my reasoning. It's Santa Cruz's reasoning. From a design durability perspective I prefer the idea of leverage ratio closer to 3:1.By your reasoning you'd see manufacturers leaning towards high leverage bikes for DH, but exactly the opposite is happening.
The V10 has an astonishing 3.6:1 leverage ratio.
How about the Sunday? (under 3:1)
Cove Shocker? (2.9:1)
Demo 8? (2.9:1)
Pretty much with every other major player this will hold true.
Lower leverage bikes allow more effective shock adjustments and don't put near the stress on the seals/hardware.
I bet you a cool $20 the next V10 will be a 3" stroke shock, reducing the leverage ratio (and shooting huge holes in your reasoning)
Have I seen any blown up shocks?
The one in my living room (buddies bike) just got back from PUSH.
It was sent there just for sh*ts and giggles
A leverage ratio so high a 180 pound rider needs 600 pound spring to keep the tire from eating the seat? Exactly what PUSH told him to do.
b. Your chosen frames for comparison are pretty different creatures from the v10, as all 3 of them have significantly less travel and only one of them is a race frame.
c. It's hard to argue with the v10 being more sensitive at the begining of it's travel than most, if not all frame designs.
Cool. By that Logic, the GSR is the greatest bike ever made. Or maybe its the Rocky Mountain RM6, or the Santa Cruz Super 8.
You're just wrong. Higher leverage is never good (except for blackmail). You will tear apart shocks, and make them work harder then they should for a given amount of travel.
To make a comparison, the M3 runs a 9.5 x 3 shock.
And, the Shocker is a race-inspired frame.
So is the Demo 8, beleive it or not.
Kona Stab Deluxe: 9.5x3.25 for 8 inches
Giant Glory: 9.5x3.25 for 8.8 inches
Rotec RL9: 9.5x3 for 9 inches
Mountain Cycle Shockwave: 9.5x3 for 9.5 inches.
You're just wrong. Higher leverage is never good (except for blackmail). You will tear apart shocks, and make them work harder then they should for a given amount of travel.
To make a comparison, the M3 runs a 9.5 x 3 shock.
And, the Shocker is a race-inspired frame.
So is the Demo 8, beleive it or not.
Kona Stab Deluxe: 9.5x3.25 for 8 inches
Giant Glory: 9.5x3.25 for 8.8 inches
Rotec RL9: 9.5x3 for 9 inches
Mountain Cycle Shockwave: 9.5x3 for 9.5 inches.
There is a reason that shocks on race trucks are several feet long... I don't think it is possible to think of a legit advantage of higher leverage ratios.
I believe the RM9 was even higher than the RM6, and the RM9 was the finest downhill race frame ever constructed. Sarcasm. Look, I'm not disagreeing that conventional wisdom dictates that a leverage ratio close to 3:1 is best for most applications. That is not the point. The point is that not all applications are the same, especially when discussing frame designs with vastly different axle paths, rates of leverage progression, and amounts of travel. The v10 is unique. And it works well.
As for the Shocker: "race inspired" does not a race frame make.
And the Demo: Great all around DH frame, but by no means a race bike. The Big Hit frame has much more appropriate race geo. And it's lighter. And it's priced well. Specialized doesn't give a hoot about DH racing. They care about freeride.
I don't even want to talk about the other bikes metioned. My fingers hurt just thinking about them.
As for the Shocker: "race inspired" does not a race frame make.
And the Demo: Great all around DH frame, but by no means a race bike. The Big Hit frame has much more appropriate race geo. And it's lighter. And it's priced well. Specialized doesn't give a hoot about DH racing. They care about freeride.
I don't even want to talk about the other bikes metioned. My fingers hurt just thinking about them.
Think about the difference in both sprung and unprung weight in a race truck! Apples and very small oranges.
L
luelling
Guest
I can kinda see the unrestricted movement idea, with a higher leverage ratio you get more travel for every mm of shock movement, this would give you less friction to overcome in the shock but the tunability goes down......I'm not advocating high ratio, I prefer 3:1 for tuning and shock durability
Yep, it has a leverage threshhold as opposed to a leverage curve.
Maybe so, but alot of the same principles and suspention theory are in play, just on much different scales.
You could just leave it at that - the VPP licensed bike that Intense makes in the same category as the SC V10 has a longer stroke because performance was priority over cost. Seems obvious SC used the short stroke to save money - typical SC MO.
In fact Intense's Socom FRO (For Racing Only) trades a fair bit of wheel travel for an even lower leverage ratio. Higher leverage is not desirable for anything but saving money.
In bulk for OEM? Also don't you think sharing shock sizes between models - VPFree and V10 saves money - less parts to carry and buying in larger numbers...
Regardless having high leverage ratio is never a good thing. The Sunday takes advantage of good suspension design instead of over dampened shocks with tons of platform right?
Historically SC bikes have corners cut in various ways - short stroke shocks, low quality finishes, non-replaceable dropouts, cheap hardware, moving overseas, etc.
Brand quality and design obviously isn't static and things change/improve over the years. The current V10 is a lot better than a Super8 but it heritage in high leverage isn't a design feature to be touted.
1) no one on our team has blown up a shock on a SC bike. That includes the 12 V10s. 6 of which are the new design. My personal V10 is a 2005 model and the shock has not even needed service. I raced at 13 events last year and practiced/freeride a bunch more. Also, I weigh 200 pounds and take the shortest route which is not always the smoothest
2) finish qaulity has been great on our bikes. The powder coat hasn't flaked. Ano is obviously nicer over time and it's nice the SC provides that option.
3) All of my SC bikes have replaceble dropouts.
4) Ti bolts are not cheap. That's what the 2005+ V10 has.
5) all VPP bikes are made in the US.
I love my V10 and I look forward to getting the new one.
Thanks Todd for confirming that shock pricing is the same.
Reading comprehension isn't your greatest skill - I said historically. And even if they are the same price 9.5 vs. 8.75" parts sharing and buying in larger numbers cuts costs - thus the shock selection was probably influenced by cost cutting, not performance.
I also mentioned quality has gone up over the years and the current V10 is a much better bike than the Super 8 ever was.
While I'm not intimately familiar w/ the inner workings of Santa Cruz's business ops; of course buying in bigger qty will have its advantages in several ways (less skus, qty discounts, etc) but most every vendor in this biz bases their price breaks on overall $ not qty of a particular item. I'm sure that can be leveraged for REALLY high volumes, but lets be honest here...DH/Freeride aint exactly where the huge #s are.
Lets take an 8.75x2.75" Fox Van R shock for example. Iron Horse uses this shock on four different bike models, with three different frames, with three different tunes. No breaks there and no real big advantage to using it on all four models other than it fits a need, a price point, and a given level of performance.
There are tons more things SC could do to "cut corners" than to share shock lengths, source to the ROC, or use non-replaceable dropouts. They are based in among the most expensive places to do biz, they have two of the nastiest WC riders on their stuff, they use proprietary technology, constantly are running 2pg ads, etc. Trimming from those areas would save a whole lot more than skimping on a shock or a dropout.
-ska todd
Lets take an 8.75x2.75" Fox Van R shock for example. Iron Horse uses this shock on four different bike models, with three different frames, with three different tunes. No breaks there and no real big advantage to using it on all four models other than it fits a need, a price point, and a given level of performance.
There are tons more things SC could do to "cut corners" than to share shock lengths, source to the ROC, or use non-replaceable dropouts. They are based in among the most expensive places to do biz, they have two of the nastiest WC riders on their stuff, they use proprietary technology, constantly are running 2pg ads, etc. Trimming from those areas would save a whole lot more than skimping on a shock or a dropout.
-ska todd
As I said historically, not all these issues apply to one model at one time. You have to cut money from somewhere you can't do business in SC and all those other expensive things you mentioned and have a product with the highest quality and standards with decent pricing all at the same time - corners are cut here and there and it is still usually a good product, just not the creme of the crop.
In a similar vein:
"Strong, light, cheap. pick two" -Keith Bontrager
You don't remember people having all sorts of issue with first generation V10? Erik Hudson said he had to rebuild his after practically every weekend. Companies sold aftermarket hardware for this reason.
I've personally seen various SC over the years with spotty finish quality and its not uncommon to hear about that on the web either.
SC is decent mid-to-upper grade brand and they've been improving with time but I don't think people should kid themselves saying a higher leverage ratio makes the bike perform better.
"Cutting corners" and having inadequate QC are two totally different things. By saying SC "cut corners" you are implying that they purposefully and knowingly used substandard materials, procedures, or processes. No one in this industry really does that on the high-end. It just doesn't financially make sense. Do people have QC eff-ups, use untested construction methods, or under shoot the mark on things? Sure do; but it's certainly not done on purpose.
The mountain bike riding market changes quicker than the rate of product development can often react to. When something you design 18 months beforehand finally hits market, there's only a certain amount of time before the market shifts (or riders go bigger and badder) and you need to adjust.
-ska todd
The mountain bike riding market changes quicker than the rate of product development can often react to. When something you design 18 months beforehand finally hits market, there's only a certain amount of time before the market shifts (or riders go bigger and badder) and you need to adjust.
-ska todd
Yes part of what I am getting at is quality control but it cost less to have lower quality control standards too (cost cutting).
Also are you claiming nobody in the cycling industry ever switches suppliers or processes to save money which occasionally has substandard results.
Well, I don't know if all of those things mentioned really mean that SC is cutting costs (I'd be more inclined to think that the shock stroke thing is more of a design issue)...but I can say that I have seen some SC bikes with crappy finishes. The last SC bike I owned had the worst powder job I've ever seen anywhere. After a while, I had huge flakes coming off from cable rub. It' didn't rub through- the coat just started coming off in big swatches.