So does anyone know where this guy lives? If he did something stupid and deserves what he got we should go beat him with his prosthetic legW4S said:
No more Big Bear
- Thread starter Romic tech
- Start date
You don't know what a pegboy is do you?W4S said:
NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!
Frazier is so black & white!
The bridge is a liability for the mtn. They should do their best to eliminate obvious dangers, beyond that though it's a crap shoot. If the bridge had bright safety cones like Whistler and a sign that said !!!Danger!!! that would be another story.
Frazier is so black & white!
The bridge is a liability for the mtn. They should do their best to eliminate obvious dangers, beyond that though it's a crap shoot. If the bridge had bright safety cones like Whistler and a sign that said !!!Danger!!! that would be another story.
Im fully with Fraser on this topic. You go out knowing damn well that you could get very hurt on anything out there, its a risk you choose to take. Unless the lift cable snaps, or the chairlift operator flips out and desides to beat you with a crowbar, its your fault you got hurt
Then double the lift fee... hell, triple it, I don't careDH Diva said:
But not opening shouldn't even be on the table
:nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :eviltongu :eviltongu :eviltongu :eviltongu :eviltongu :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
Hm, moving out of California, or at least going north, isn't looking so bad. Heck, I might miss next DH season while transitioning anyhow. However, if I end up only lightly employed next summer, looks like I'll get some nice big calves from all the XC I'll be riding.
Whatever, I guess...I'll still ride something somewhere no matter what.
MD
Whatever, I guess...I'll still ride something somewhere no matter what.
MD
It's unfortunate but even double/triple usage rates wouldn't even cover the type of cash your talking about for insurance premiums. The other issue is deductables. My local lifted mountain (and it's not a small one either) has a $5000 deductible per personal property damage claim. So every time someone makes a claim, if it's not over $5000 then you can't even claim it to your insurance.Slacker said:Then double the lift fee... hell, triple it, I don't care
But not opening shouldn't even be on the table
A good example of this was a couple years back my friends bike got dropped off the lift. The mountain was 100% responsible and they paid up for a new DH bike. We found out from the guy who runs the summer lifts and has put on the local race series for years that it had to come out of pocket because most ski resorts deducitble is so high that a lot of stuff doesn't get covered because it doesn't exceed the deductible. The deductible for personal injury is even much higher than property damage (upwards of 10-15,000 per claim in some cases). So not only are the premiums outrageous, but most of the time the insurance that you pay out the nose for isn't even covering their butts.
The cost of all types of insurance in this country is us killing privately and commercially. That's why there aren't more state/city run dirt jump parks, skate parks, ect in comparison to some other countries.
well maybe bear or mountain high will open up for mountain bikers, maybe have some serious DH runs, That would be way sick!
what's $5000 to a big ski mtn? That's like $1 to the average joe.
It's the multi-million dollar suits that are the biggest concern I think.
It's the multi-million dollar suits that are the biggest concern I think.
Uh, that was just an example. My point, incase you missed it, was that when the majority of your claims aren't paid for by your insurance, yet your still paying an insurance premium, you start to lose money. Big claims are the most damaging, but their less frequent. Mountains get smaller claims really regularly and it does ad up.punkassean said:
I got your point the first time.
I am familiar with the concept, I have Blue Cross
Insurance rates are high because people are fraudulent, people are fraudulent because insurance rates are high. It's a vicious cycle.
I am familiar with the concept, I have Blue Cross
Insurance rates are high because people are fraudulent, people are fraudulent because insurance rates are high. It's a vicious cycle.
Apologies in advance - I'm australian and haven't got the slightest idea about your laws. Can't you sign a waiver or something that frees the operators from liability in the event of an accident? We've got some nasty laws here in Australia but to combat the increasing number of stupid lawsuits our laws were changed to prevent people from suing if they're injured either while commiting a crime (ie trespassing) or involved in an activity which presents an obvious risk of injury (ie riding a little wheely thingo down a hilll for kicks).
To the person suing - you what? Underestimated a jump? Slipped? What went wrong? Fair go if a chairlift fell on you or something but even a stunt collapsing seems to be an obvious risk in my opinion and any accident involving misjudging a jump shouldn't ever see the inside of a courtroom.
To the person suing - you what? Underestimated a jump? Slipped? What went wrong? Fair go if a chairlift fell on you or something but even a stunt collapsing seems to be an obvious risk in my opinion and any accident involving misjudging a jump shouldn't ever see the inside of a courtroom.
We are much less logical over here. Criminals can sue the pants off people for falling down there steps while running away with their big-screen TV. Also property owners are responsible for crimes committed on their property, for example; under the patriot act I could be arrested and held liable if someone made a drug deal on my front lawn in the middle of the night. They can even confiscate my personal property to cover "damages" caused by the crime, including my home. Awesome huh!
Woh, you read my mind...
I'd move to oz but you guys don't want us, so getting citizenship is a PITA and virtually impossible from what I hear. :eviltongu
Damn, glad I just upgraded all my stuff for next season. 
Hopefully Prop 64 will help a little with these BS lawsuits.
"Implied Risk" is the bottom line if you try sueing a mountain. Ski resorts face this crap all the time. They don't pay out very often.
It don't matter if it's summer or winter.
If it's more than a rumor then there's more to the story.
We (bikes) may not make them enough money to cover their (our) expenses. Making money is the mountain's only concern.
That's my POV, Chris
It don't matter if it's summer or winter.
If it's more than a rumor then there's more to the story.
We (bikes) may not make them enough money to cover their (our) expenses. Making money is the mountain's only concern.
That's my POV, Chris
So I'm all for discussion of lawsuits and how it's sad how many there are in California, but let's get back to the subject for a second. Does anyone have any details on this situation? I would love to hear some specifics, because from what I've seen the only evidence is word of mouth, and I don't trust that much online.
I'm suing Orange County for producing Jackasses and then Big Bear for shutting down Log chute once a month.
make it a class action so we all get 3 cents if we win.
Is this a joke?????You cant be serious.Pegboy said:
Does california have a similar ski-resort law as colorado? If you dont know, skiers in colorado basically cannot sure a ski resort in any way short of maybe lift collapse. That would include dropping a cliff into rocks. Im not sure about avalanches, which are extremely rare at resorts but have happened a few times.
I think we have a bit of an explination. I took this from MTBR..........check out the link....rebar on the race course caused serious crash
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDigger
Additionally,
At this time there is only one pending lawsuit against Summit that appears to be MTB related. The suit also includes as defendants Team Big Bear and USA Cycling Inc. (NORBA). It was filed 6/3/04 by a Brian Spillane. Anybody know what happened to this guy? I would guess he got hurt at a race given the defendants.
Quote from SkyGrounder:
I'm guessing this has something to do with it:
http://brianupdates.homestead.com/
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDigger
Additionally,
At this time there is only one pending lawsuit against Summit that appears to be MTB related. The suit also includes as defendants Team Big Bear and USA Cycling Inc. (NORBA). It was filed 6/3/04 by a Brian Spillane. Anybody know what happened to this guy? I would guess he got hurt at a race given the defendants.
Quote from SkyGrounder:
I'm guessing this has something to do with it:
http://brianupdates.homestead.com/
apparently you do not own a business. Tripling prices won't do anything but drive customers away. There is no way they can continue to operate the lift if they cannot meet costs. Period.Slacker said:
Of one asshat ruins it for everyone, that is life int he lawsuit happy US of A.
And yes, it IS black and white. It is a risky sport, DEAL. You guys are unbelievable. Look before you leap, it is as simple as that.
Gimme a break. If that brian spillane guy is indeed the guy suuing...it is pretty pathetic. He clipped a course marker by riding too close to it at high speed...obvious rider error. If not, well get well soon man!
"On Saturday, June 7th, Brian was in Big Bear, Southern California for the Gotta Thunder Downhill mountain bike race.
During his final run of the day, Brian was setting up to take a double jump when his pedal clipped a rebar stake marking the edge of the course. His bike stopped and he went flying. Brian estimates he was traveling about 30 miles per hour at the time. Brian was wearing full protective gear (the maximum amount available) when he crashed.
After 35 minutes he was airlifted to Loma Linda University Medical Center. On Wednesday, June 11, Brian underwent a six-hour surgery in which his damaged vertebrae, C5 and C6, were fused together. He has 4 screws and two metal bands in the front of his neck for stabilization, and the same in the back. He broke the C5 vertebrae and his spinal cord was severely damaged. He remained in the acute care unit at Loma Linda until the following Wednesday, June 18th. The x-ray below is actually Brian's."
Fraser,
Re-Bar is NOT acceptable to use for course markers, period. TBB ****ed up big time by half assing course construction, again. Instead of killing a foreigner, their lame, substandard course construction put someone in a wheel chair. This is demonstrated negligence on the part of the mountain, and NORBA for continuing to work with these buffoons. That race course does not meet UCI standards for course design, which should be the defacto NORBA standards. Anyone who uses re-bar for course tape deserves to have their mountain closed for eternity.
(This is likely a brief summary of what the complaintants case is going to be, it is hard not to side with them when you re-phrase things like this...)
Re-Bar is NOT acceptable to use for course markers, period. TBB ****ed up big time by half assing course construction, again. Instead of killing a foreigner, their lame, substandard course construction put someone in a wheel chair. This is demonstrated negligence on the part of the mountain, and NORBA for continuing to work with these buffoons. That race course does not meet UCI standards for course design, which should be the defacto NORBA standards. Anyone who uses re-bar for course tape deserves to have their mountain closed for eternity.
(This is likely a brief summary of what the complaintants case is going to be, it is hard not to side with them when you re-phrase things like this...)
Huh?? I thought rebar + plastic tube was prtty much the standard for course marking? What's wrong with a rebar?SuspectDevice said:
I don't wish on anyone to break his neck, it's awful to read the dude got badly hurt, but catching a pedal on a tree, rock, fence, rebar... is the kind of stuff that happens when you go fying down out of control as we do.
That's life.
I must agree....DHing is an extreme sport, and with it comes these risks. It's heartbraking to hear such stories - but unfortunately, it happens!Mani_UT said:
I'm wondering the same thing....I've seen rebar and plastic tubing on tons of courses??? What is used instead on courses?Mani_UT said:
Dude, that IS NOT a cool comment!!!!!mack said:
The improper spelling offends me more than anything he could actually say...it's been pretty well established that he never says anything worthwhile anyhow.Brian HCM#1 said:
It's like Jerry Seinfeld said..."It doesn't offend me as a Jew, it offends me as a comedian!"
when i read the site i thought exactly the same as Fraser....."he hit a marker, unlucky, your fault" but now i'm wondering what the hell is "re bar"??
By the way, can i sue for hitting a tree last year then?
By the way, can i sue for hitting a tree last year then?
This is rebar, its used in pouring foundations sidewalks, anything that is held together by cement to make it stronger. I have seen someone fall on some rebar on a construction site and die from it. Its definatly not the best material to have sticking out of the ground.scottishmark said:
right got it now, its the stuff for making reinforced concrete. didn't know it was called rebar though.
Starting to think that maybe he has a point then, but surely it still depends on whether it was anchored into the ground or not? If it was then it was a dumb move by whoever set it, if it wasn't anchored then would it have made a difference what was being used?
Starting to think that maybe he has a point then, but surely it still depends on whether it was anchored into the ground or not? If it was then it was a dumb move by whoever set it, if it wasn't anchored then would it have made a difference what was being used?
Course marker or it could have been a tree. I don't see the difference.
We know the risks and we sign the wavers. C'Mon!!!
I still say this is going down because I just got a new rig.
I guess it will just be a pit bike for when I go back to drag boat racing (a real dangerous sport that's not sue happy, yet).
We know the risks and we sign the wavers. C'Mon!!!
I still say this is going down because I just got a new rig.
I guess it will just be a pit bike for when I go back to drag boat racing (a real dangerous sport that's not sue happy, yet).
I think if the rebar is flush with the soil and a piece of PVC pipe is installed over the rebar a few inches below the ground it would be more forgiving and would break loose if someone hit it. I'm sure the race crew didn't think about what could happen if someone hit their marker, but maybe it should have been given some thought.scottishmark said: