New trail/AM bike time!

-BB- · Jul 7, 2010

Banshee Spitfire...

66 degree HT, vpp(ish) linkages, not too much travel.

dfinn · Jul 7, 2010

Stumpjumper Evo. Not sure when they are actually hitting stores though.

FlipFantasia · Jul 7, 2010

oh, this thread again?

slowitdown · Jul 7, 2010

FlipFantasia said:
oh, this thread again?

I swear nobody's asked this before.

rockofullr · Jul 7, 2010

I'll tell you what you should buy if you tell me how to get my fiance and my parents to get along.

Da Peach · Jul 7, 2010

what I always say in these conversations

syadasti · Jul 7, 2010

2011 Giant Reign X (I doubt you'd be able to get a 2010 frameset or complete). My favorite AM bike and I've had tons over the years (my 2009 Turner Spot, also with a Fox 36, quickly became the backup bike after I got the RX 0 - its that good). The 2011 should have the revised lower linkage (snapping issues) which was the only significant drawback to the 2010 RX.

Tetreault · Jul 7, 2010

i like the pivot and intense

ibis would be my first choice as they are amazing but as far as i know the HD's are pretty well all spoken for until decenber?

frorider · Jul 7, 2010

pretty impressed with the spec enduro that my buddy got recently. light and stiff alu frame. even with some low end parts his is right on 30 lbs.

al-irl · Jul 7, 2010

Morewood shova or mbuzi. I know my buddy that replaced his 6.6 with a shova has been more than happy with it

RayB · Jul 7, 2010

Don't get a Mojo HD.

I wanna be the only person on Ridemonkey with one.............

HAB · Jul 7, 2010

Zark said:
That's one that slipped under my radar. Slack and low geometry for a shorter travel bike. I'm not sure if its enough travel for umm.... local conditions. Santa Barbara trails are pretty rough and I was thinking more towards 150 and 160mm rear travel. Do you have any ride time on one?

The Stumpjumper EVO is interesting as well. I want to see some more info on it and I don't know if it will be available frame only. It sounds like it might be similar to the Banshee in goal.

The Covert does look good as well DaPeach. Care to elaborate?

I just ordered one. Don't have it yet, but I'll post up some thoughts once I do.

jackalope · Jul 7, 2010

While I generally loath to heap too many superlatives on any given bike (as I think most modern bikes at similar price points and set up properly are basically equal), I have to admit I have become particularly fond on this one:

2010 Spitfire with a Vanilla 36 up front. Measures 13.6" BB and I'm not quite sure what the HA is, but its slack. Dogboy tried to measure the HA using his gauge on a less than ideal surface, and it kept reading 64-65*, which seems implausible. Whatever it is, it just feels right (to steal from an old Mazda advert slogan). It just simply inspired confidence the very moment I got it on the trail, and just feels natural to ride (hard). By way of anecdotal example, there are some local jumps that are decent sized and require a modicum of sack to hit, and they used to always give me pause. The first time I had the Spitfire out there, it seemed like they were trivial all of sudden. Even as bad as I am with the sweet leaners and quasi-dead sailors, it just doesn't matter anymore as I feel comfortable and loose on the bike. In fact, I am now sad that the jumps really don't present much of a "hell yeah" challenge anymore and I will have to start building anew. But even more importantly, the thing just [cliche] rails corners [/cliche]. I don't really get how if its really as slack as it seems, but your body position on the bike seems perfect and there is no funky bobbing and diving. I wish it was a little lower (which it certainly can be with a shorter fork) and I won't claim its a super efficient pedaling machine, but I've never ridden a longish travel bike that I thought pedaled well and had any small bump sensitivity worth a sh!t. It pedals well enough, and it quite light IMO (guessing 31 lbs as shown). It remains to be seen if the bushing system will hold up and nothing breaks prematurely due to my ferociously bad riding "style" - but it is quite stiff given the size of the stays other frame tubes. So far, its ability in choppy rough stuff seems to belie the 5" travel in the back, but I haven't taken it down any serious mountain tracks. That said, I've never ridden a 6" travel bike that didn't feel utterly overwhelmed at real DH speed. I've spent significant time on a Nomad and a Super Khyber, both of which I think are well executed designs. But the Spitfire is just a natural fit for me and basically makes me want to ride (even in this blazing heat).

So much for my initial claim of Vulcan-esque stoicism. :rolleyes:

gemini2k · Jul 8, 2010

RayB said:
Don't get a Mojo HD.

I wanna be the only person on Ridemonkey with one.............

Lol. One of my buddies put money down on it like 6 or 7 months ago and still doesn't have it.

HAB · Jul 8, 2010

jackalope said:
While I generally loath to heap too many superlatives on any given bike (as I think most modern bikes at similar price points and set up properly are basically equal), I have to admit I have become particularly fond on this one:

2010 Spitfire with a Vanilla 36 up front. Measures 13.6" BB and I'm not quite sure what the HA is, but its slack. Dogboy tried to measure the HA using his gauge on a less than ideal surface, and it kept reading 64-65*, which seems implausible. Whatever it is, it just feels right (to steal from an old Mazda advert slogan). It just simply inspired confidence the very moment I got it on the trail, and just feels natural to ride (hard). By way of anecdotal example, there are some local jumps that are decent sized and require a modicum of sack to hit, and they used to always give me pause. The first time I had the Spitfire out there, it seemed like they were trivial all of sudden. Even as bad as I am with the sweet leaners and quasi-dead sailors, it just doesn't matter anymore as I feel comfortable and loose on the bike. In fact, I am now sad that the jumps really don't present much of a "hell yeah" challenge anymore and I will have to start building anew. But even more importantly, the thing just [cliche] rails corners [/cliche]. I don't really get how if its really as slack as it seems, but your body position on the bike seems perfect and there is no funky bobbing and diving. I wish it was a little lower (which it certainly can be with a shorter fork) and I won't claim its a super efficient pedaling machine, but I've never ridden a longish travel bike that I thought pedaled well and had any small bump sensitivity worth a sh!t. It pedals well enough, and it quite light IMO (guessing 31 lbs as shown). It remains to be seen if the bushing system will hold up and nothing breaks prematurely due to my ferociously bad riding "style" - but it is quite stiff given the size of the stays other frame tubes. So far, its ability in choppy rough stuff seems to belie the 5" travel in the back, but I haven't taken it down any serious mountain tracks. That said, I've never ridden a 6" travel bike that didn't feel utterly overwhelmed at real DH speed. I've spent significant time on a Nomad and a Super Khyber, both of which I think are well executed designs. But the Spitfire is just a natural fit for me and basically makes me want to ride (even in this blazing heat).

So much for my initial claim of Vulcan-esque stoicism.

13.6 BB? That's REALLY disappointing. I assume that's in the slack setting, as pictured? I bought it because I was told it was lower than that. If it's that high I'm going to be pissed.

gemini2k · Jul 8, 2010

Why not an uzzi or a slopestyle?

spocomptonrider · Jul 8, 2010

That new stumpjumper evo suddenly has me trying to scheme a way in to getting one for next season, rad bike.I wonder if they will change the geo as well that would be super cool but I doubt it.

FlipFantasia · Jul 8, 2010

oh, what do you know, everyone is saying the same thing they always say....

Dogboy · Jul 8, 2010

spocomptonrider said:
That new stumpjumper evo suddenly has me trying to scheme a way in to getting one for next season, rad bike.I wonder if they will change the geo as well that would be super cool but I doubt it.

This is the best breakdown I've found on the SJ Evo: The most altered Evo model. It starts with a unique aluminum frame that gets a bit more travel out of the rear end (146mm instead of 140, an no Brain in the shock ) and geometry built around a 150mm Fox Float fork (stock models use 140mm forks). Despite bumping up front and rear travel, the Evo model has even lower (337mm) and slacker geometry (67 degrees) than a stock bike. Component changes include: wider handlebars (720mm); wider, more aggressive tires; beefier wheels (the Traverse EL wheels normally found on the Enduro); a 125mm drop Command Post; and a Gamut shift guide (mounted to ISCG tabs).

jackalope · Jul 8, 2010

13.6 BB? That's REALLY disappointing. I assume that's in the slack setting, as pictured? I bought it because I was told it was lower than that. If it's that high I'm going to be pissed.

Well, I hope it doesn't come as a big surprise given that its clearly listed on the geo-chart:

http://www.bansheebikes.com/spitfire.html

FWIW, I have a zero stack headset and running a DHF 2.35 up front and Crossmark 2.25 in the back. Again, if you want it lower, run a 140 mm or 150 mm fork on it. It should still be plenty slack IMO.

HAB · Jul 8, 2010

jackalope said:
Well, I hope it doesn't come as a big surprise given that its clearly listed on the geo-chart:

http://www.bansheebikes.com/spitfire.html

FWIW, I have a zero stack headset and running a DHF 2.35 up front and Crossmark 2.25 in the back. Again, if you want it lower, run a 140 mm or 150 mm fork on it. It should still be plenty slack IMO.

It does say 13.6, but that's in the high/steep setting. It looks like you're running it low/slack, is it still that high?

jackalope · Jul 8, 2010

^^

Yeah, it's in the low/slack setting, and thats what it measured (at least in my kitchen). I actually thought the BB range listed was mainly due to variations in fork A2C and tires, but now that I think about it, you're probably right thats supposed to be the difference in the 2 settings. So if thats the case, than it does appear to be higher then advertised, but its not stupid tall or anything. As previously mentioned, it may be slacker than listed, so perhaps their jigs are off or something (and its not that uncommon for a given frame to have some variation compared to what the manufacturer lists - altho a 0.5" difference on the BB height does seem pretty significant). And again, tires and rims can make a difference as well in geo measurements. Can't remember if DHFs and DT5.1s create a tallish profile or not.

I will remeasure later to confirm, but I really think its right. It still rips for me, regardless.

HAB · Jul 8, 2010

jackalope said:
^^

Yeah, it's in the low/slack setting, and thats what it measured (at least in my kitchen). I actually thought the BB range listed was mainly due to variations in fork A2C and tires, but now that I think about it, you're probably right thats supposed to be the difference in the 2 settings. So if thats the case, than it does appear to be higher then advertised, but its not stupid tall or anything. As previously mentioned, it may be slacker than listed, so perhaps their jigs are off or something (and its not that uncommon for a given frame to have some variation compared to what the manufacturer lists - altho a 0.5" difference on the BB height does seem pretty significant). And again, tires and rims can make a difference as well in geo measurements. Can't remember if DHFs and DT5.1s create a tallish profile or not.

I will remeasure later to confirm, but I really think its right. It still rips for me, regardless.

Seeing as they list the geo with a bunch of different fork/ headset combinations, I think that has to be the different geo settings. Fingers crossed, but I'm not going to be happy if it's that high. We'll see. I'm planning the same setup as you, a 36 with a zero stack headset.

Out of curiosity, what size are you on?

Santa Maria · Jul 8, 2010

Dogboy said:
This is the best breakdown I've found on the SJ Evo: The most altered Evo model. It starts with a unique aluminum frame that gets a bit more travel out of the rear end (146mm instead of 140, an no Brain in the shock ) and geometry built around a 150mm Fox Float fork (stock models use 140mm forks). Despite bumping up front and rear travel, the Evo model has even lower (337mm) and slacker geometry (67 degrees) than a stock bike. Component changes include: wider handlebars (720mm); wider, more aggressive tires; beefier wheels (the Traverse EL wheels normally found on the Enduro); a 125mm drop Command Post; and a Gamut shift guide (mounted to ISCG tabs).

sounds like a perfect dhers trailbike - good job!

jackalope · Jul 8, 2010

HAB,

I'm on a medium, and I'm 5'11" (i.e. the ultimate tweener height). Probably could go with a large as well, but I generally prefer smaller bikes. Altho, I did throw on a little longer seatpost than the one it came with, as I was right at the minimum insert mark on the stock one when XC'ing.

I'll also be curious to hear what yours measures out at.

HAB · Jul 8, 2010

jackalope said:
HAB,

I'm on a medium, and I'm 5'11" (i.e. the ultimate tweener height). Probably could go with a large as well, but I generally prefer smaller bikes. Altho, I did throw on a little longer seatpost than the one it came with, as I was right at the minimum insert mark on the stock one when XC'ing.

I'll also be curious to hear what yours measures out at.

I'm just a little taller than you and got a large. I'm glad we're on different sizes, probably means there's more chance for the jigs, and thus the geo to be different.

I'll post up if/ when it shows. Been about 2 weeks now, though I don't have much trouble believing shipping across the continent and the US-Canuck Land border takes a while.

MDJ · Jul 8, 2010

Dogboy said:
This is the best breakdown I've found on the SJ Evo: The most altered Evo model. It starts with a unique aluminum frame that gets a bit more travel out of the rear end (146mm instead of 140, an no Brain in the shock ) and geometry built around a 150mm Fox Float fork (stock models use 140mm forks). Despite bumping up front and rear travel, the Evo model has even lower (337mm) and slacker geometry (67 degrees) than a stock bike. Component changes include: wider handlebars (720mm); wider, more aggressive tires; beefier wheels (the Traverse EL wheels normally found on the Enduro); a 125mm drop Command Post; and a Gamut shift guide (mounted to ISCG tabs).

Spec did a great job with this one (at least on paper so far). It would have been a joke if they included the brain. Everything listed looks great, although isn't this almost an Enduro at this point??

Sandwich · Jul 8, 2010

Adding this sucker to the FAQ since it gets asked weekly.

rockofullr · Jul 8, 2010

Sandwich said:
Adding this sucker to the FAQ since it gets asked weekly.

But I wanna know what AM bike I should get not which bike Zark should buy so that doesn't help at all. :rofl:

mandown · Jul 8, 2010

I had been looking at the Mojo a while back and gave the HD an eyeball (nice tribute to Balfa with the name). I saw one in person at Northstar last weekend and it looked fly as fvck, particularly with the new 180mm Fox 36. I think the carbon thing isn't as big a worry as some make it out to be. It does make me 2nd guess what would happen in a crash, but the supporters of it say that it is more likely to recover from an impact than aluminum.

I'm on a Roscoe II and I dig it. I think the new Remedy models would be a nice choice for something a bit bigger, but not Scratch sized. Have you checked the Scratch Air frame weight? Perhaps you could pull a light build on it.

MDJ · Jul 8, 2010

I am a fan of carbon frames, but I will say that I saw a recent pic from a local spot that sometimes makes me think twice.

The whole BB shell, along with cranks, from a popular frame (no I won't say which one) was lying on the ground no longer attached to the frame. From what I understand it was not owned by a DHer and was not abused.

I guess I'm really not that worried though as this is probably just a one-off and not representative of the frame, company, or carbon in general.

JustMtnB44 · Jul 8, 2010

jackalope said:
It still rips for me, regardless.

Exactly. One ride on my Spitfire and I stopped caring about numbers and never did measure any of them.

HAB said:
Seeing as they list the geo with a bunch of different fork/ headset combinations, I think that has to be the different geo settings. Fingers crossed, but I'm not going to be happy if it's that high. We'll see. I'm planning the same setup as you, a 36 with a zero stack headset.

Don't worry so much about the numbers, the bike will rip and you will not notice 0.2" BB height if it turns out to be slightly different than the chart. I am running a RS Revelation 150 up front with tapered steerer and normal lower cup, and in the low/slack setting if the BB was any lower it would be retarded. As it is now, I like the height, but I have to be careful about pedal strikes in rough terrain.

HAB said:
I'm just a little taller than you and got a large. I'm glad we're on different sizes, probably means there's more chance for the jigs, and thus the geo to be different.

I'll post up if/ when it shows. Been about 2 weeks now, though I don't have much trouble believing shipping across the continent and the US-Canuck Land border takes a while.

I am about 6' 0.5" tall and I got a large. It feels perfect to me. The front end is low compared to my old 575. Top tube length is spot on. I had to run the stock seatpost at it's min insertion mark to get good leg extension for climbs, but my gravity dropper works perfect. I'm using 29" wide handlebars.

I really like my Spitfire so far. It is perfect for fast, flowy trails. It is not the best machine for tight, slow, technical trails, but can handle them fine. It feels like more than 5" of travel as the rear is fairly progressive, and I have yet to feel a harsh bottom out even on 4' drops, although the shock o-ring shows that it is in fact bottoming. Pedaling performance is good, and it climbs fine in the slack setting with minimal front end wander.

Is the Spitfire the best bike, I don't know I haven't ridden any of the others mentioned in this thread. I'm sure that any of them would make a great trail bike.

HAB · Jul 8, 2010

Frame came today, Banshee fvcked up and didn't send a shock though. Good news is I have a ****ty old Swinger that fits so I can at least ride it, and I have a lathe at work so making reducers to fit isn't a big deal.

As far as the geo goes, I haven't really measured anything too well since I don't have a shock mounted up yet, but it seems to be lower than jackalope's- ~13.7 with the bar they included in the place of the shock, which is just shy of 8" long. With the right sized shock it'll drop a good bit. I've also got huge tires on it, 2.4 Big Bettys. And I really do want it low- my DH bike has a 12.8" bb (really) so I'm used to retardedly low. And I like it.

W4S · Jul 8, 2010

spocomptonrider said:
That new stumpjumper evo suddenly has me trying to scheme a way in to getting one for next season, rad bike.I wonder if they will change the geo as well that would be super cool but I doubt it.

think I found my next bike!

Demomonkey · Jul 9, 2010

Santa Maria said:
sounds like a perfect dhers trailbike - good job!

Finally - we have an answer!!

Moderator: Can you please add this to the FAQ Section

Q: What is the perfect DH'rs trailbike?
A: 2011 Specialized Stumpjumper EVO

I can sleep at night now knowing the answer to life, the universe and everything has been revealed.

4.21pm on Friday - Beer time!!!

aj-monkey · Jul 9, 2010

Zark said:
That's one that slipped under my radar. Slack and low geometry for a shorter travel bike. I'm not sure if its enough travel for umm.... local conditions. Santa Barbara trails are pretty rough and I was thinking more towards 150 and 160mm rear travel. Do you have any ride time on one?

You'll be fine. I've been riding mine for about 3 weeks now and I live in Squamish. It gets beat down on all the low elevation DH shuttle trails here in town as well as the general ripping trails. The thing holds it's own no problems! The frame is stiffer than the Giant Reign that I had and the geo is perfect for a Dh rider that wants a trail bike to pedal about on!

spocomptonrider · Jul 9, 2010

Demomonkey said:
Finally - we have an answer!!

Moderator: Can you please add this to the FAQ Section

Q: What is the perfect DH'rs trailbike?
A: 2011 Specialized Stumpjumper EVO

I can sleep at night now knowing the answer to life, the universe and everything has been revealed.

4.21pm on Friday - Beer time!!!

I can't tell if this is a tongue in cheek attempt at sarcasm, so I'm going to pretend that its not. It does seem to tick all of the right boxes for most of us who just want a bike that you can get out and ride instead of driving to a lift or shuttle which isn't always an option. Its nice to have a bike that is similar in feeling to your downhill bike to keep your skills in tune not to mention the fitness gains.

All are things you know I'm sure but no need to go lambasting someone because they pointed out the fact that a certain bike is pretty much exactly what numerous threads have been started on in seek of.

DirtMcGirk · Jul 9, 2010

I know that Yeti is on the no-go list, but I gotta say I love my ASR5.

New trail/AM bike time!

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

confused

Outwitted by a rodent

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?

i heart mac

Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Chelsea from Seattle

Mental acuity - 1%

Turbo Monkey

Chelsea from Seattle

Turbo Monkey

sportin' the CROCS

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Mental acuity - 1%

Chelsea from Seattle

Mental acuity - 1%

Chelsea from Seattle

Monkey

Mental acuity - 1%

Chelsea from Seattle

Monkey

Pig my fish!

confused

Poopdeck Repost

Monkey

Monkey

Chelsea from Seattle

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

sportin' the CROCS

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm